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Assassination of United Healthcare CEO

Who's "we"?
Posters...here.
I don't think we have enough information to suss out sod all.
Right. We are ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ around, testing hypotheses. Like NYPD was doing. It's fun.
Again, Kremlinology.
Again, wtf is with this "Kremlinology"? We are talking about a simple street crime, not hugely different from stealing a freaking bicycle. There's nothing Murder Mystery Novel about this.

This ain't going to be The Zodiac. The guy is clearly a doofus. But even a doofus runs some planning. Hell, he got in, killed, got out, and was invisible for a week. Damn near Daylight Crime. How he did that has been interesting as each piece plays out..
 
Regarding the phone, I presume even if he deleted call logs the cellphone network will have some record of calls made and received.

If an accomplice called, that will probably be another burner but its identity probably leaves a trace of where it was, and maybe even everywhere it went while switched on. I realise I'm guessing as I don't know how much of this data can be retrieved, but in this era of harvesting every scrap of data in the hope of monetising it when you think of a way to do it, I won't be surprised.
 
Here's a few problems with your scenario.
I think you're relying far too much on media reports that easily could be wrong. For example even if he was seen before talking on a phone. And a burner phone was found. Do we know for sure that the two are the same phone? I think the answer is no. Certainly it's a good guess.
"We don't know for sure yet" can be applied to any discussion. Should we not kick things around based on what we know now? Maybe delay discussing anything at all for six months?
But I bet you dollars to donuts, this guy is a solo nut. I had given some thought that he was working with someone for the reasons you have mentioned in this thread. I have thought it could have been the wife or maybe a mob hit. But pre-meditated murders make up less than 5% of all murders.
They do. And aren't we looking at one of them?
And murder conspiracies are even more rare. And given how sloppy he's actually been, I think it's highly unlikely there is a co-conspirator.
I think two doofuses would look very similar to one doofus. I'd just like to know who he was talking to right before airing out Thompson in the pre-dawn dark, and if there are months of calls on that phone from other interesting numbers. Like the wife's cel, maybe?
 
I'm moderately surprised by this conversation. What luck was actually needed, wasn't thompson their to attend an investor's meeting? I'd be willing to bet that was publicly available knowledge. All he had to know was when and where the meeting was. We don't even really know if he was gunning for Thompson in particular or any united health exec would do.

Now, I can't rule out some co-conspirator or even murder for hire but I don't see as either is necessary. I will also point out that mid 20s is about the right time for bipolar or schizophrenia symptoms to show up. This guy seem pretty well organized though, so that seems unlikely at this point.
 
It was a shareholder meeting for a publicly traded company. UHC was elgally obligate to make the information public. Even if there wasn't a formal schedule for speakers, it is pretty reasonable to assume the CEO would be there.
 
Regarding the phone, I presume even if he deleted call logs the cellphone network will have some record of calls made and received.

If an accomplice called, that will probably be another burner but its identity probably leaves a trace of where it was, and maybe even everywhere it went while switched on. I realise I'm guessing as I don't know how much of this data can be retrieved, but in this era of harvesting every scrap of data in the hope of monetising it when you think of a way to do it, I won't be surprised.
This is overthinking it. He was likely ordering a Happy Meal takeaway.
 
I'm moderately surprised by this conversation. What luck was actually needed, wasn't thompson their to attend an investor's meeting? I'd be willing to bet that was publicly available knowledge. All he had to know was when and where the meeting was. We don't even really know if he was gunning for Thompson in particular or any united health exec would do.

Now, I can't rule out some co-conspirator or even murder for hire but I don't see as either is necessary. I will also point out that mid 20s is about the right time for bipolar or schizophrenia symptoms to show up. This guy seem pretty well organized though, so that seems unlikely at this point.
You are possibly right about the mental health prognosis. What you are missing about Mr. Thompson's presence is that he was not just turning up for an investors meeting, as scheduled: he had nipped out back to his hotel room, presumably because he forgot something. That is when the gunman popped up. So it isn't to do with knowing what time the meeting started. Mr. Thompson might just have been unlucky and it could have been any of the attendees.

But I wonder if shooting him in the back was a nod to Mangione's own back problems?
 
It was a shareholder meeting for a publicly traded company. UHC was elgally obligate to make the information public.
They did. I posted the actual press release for it. The physical address is not announced.
Even if there wasn't a formal schedule for speakers, it is pretty reasonable to assume the CEO would be there.
He was, and was publicized. His name is Andrew Witty. Did you just get here?
 
You say that but he might not have thought it was sloppy at all. He might have thought he had everything planned out, textbook style, from top to bottom. We're all sitting here with hindsight and days to review what actually happened. In the moment I think we all would probably make mistakes, no matter how well we planned it out and people would be calling us sloppy too.
No doubt. I said basically the same thing earlier. But he is caught days later in a McDonald's wearing what looks like the same clothes, carrying a firearm and his manifesto. That part is bizarre. When I carry out a hit, I get rid of anything and everything that could be used against me. Just saying, it was amateur time.
 
No doubt. I said basically the same thing earlier. But he is caught days later in a McDonald's wearing what looks like the same clothes, carrying a firearm and his manifesto. That part is bizarre. When I carry out a hit, I get rid of anything and everything that could be used against me. Just saying, it was amateur time.
He wanted publicity, did he not? Probably feeling some remorse as apparently he had a 'hit list', unconfimed, so needed to hang on to his gun. From his manifesto, they would soon know it was he anway.

Alleged manifesto here:

 
When was the last time law enforcement put so much effort and resources into a single murder?
2-tier Justice System on full display.
 
According to police who have read his manifesto, Maglione says to save police the time investigating (?)he was working alone.
 
When was the last time law enforcement put so much effort and resources into a single murder?
2-tier Justice System on full display.
I don't doubt for a second that there is a two tiered justice system. But I don't agree that extra attention was used for any other reason that the murder was recorded on video and it looked like something out of a mob or spy movie.
 
I don't doubt for a second that there is a two tiered justice system. But I don't agree that extra attention was used for any other reason that the murder was recorded on video and it looked like something out of a mob or spy movie.

I'll contest that. It really doesn't look any stranger than any other murder caught on film. I believe I read that there were something like 400 murders in 2023 in NYC. So a little over 1 a day. We don't read about many that get this level of attention for, say, a barista or a homeless person.
 
Could have positioned himself to shoot from the front as Mr. Thompson exited his hotel to return to the AGM.
There are a number of practical reasons why the shooter waited until Thompson was facing away: Maybe the shooter needed a moment to get his gun. Maybe he didn't want the victim seeing the gun and reacting. Maybe there was too much psychological difficulty in shooting someone face to face. I'm happy that things are so dramatic on your home planet, but here on Earth, symbolism is for novels.
 
I'm wondering about the back problem, the surgery. Is that what led him to kill the CEO of UnitedHealthcare? What's the connection between the back problem, the surgery and UnitedHealthcare. I'm sure we'll find out, though.

Luigi Mangione, the suspect arrested in connection with the murder of UnitedHealthcare’s CEO, fell out of touch with some of his friends and family earlier this year, according to multiple media reports. The loss in contact seemed to align with a back surgery Mangione underwent to treat chronic pain linked to a pinched nerve...R.J. Martin [co-founder of Surfbreak in Honolulu] said [Mangione] suffered from ongoing pain linked to a back issue, describing it as a “misaligned vertebrae that would pinch” his spinal cord. A spokesperson for Martin added to the Times that Mangione’s back injury had stopped him from surfing and had impacted his romantic life. Yahoo News report link

1733861880805.png
Mangione in holding cell, Altoona Pa.
 
Dubious. If he thought he was at war with "The Allopathic Complex", i.e. conventional medicine, why did he shoot a guy who has done more than almost anyone else in the world to prevent people receiving such treatment?
Because they wouldn't pay for what ever expensive woo he thought would help him?
 
*glances at Monopoly money found in backpack*
Ah, yes. And notice the three shots fired, symbolizing the trinity.
And it all happened in New York, the big Apple. The apple is often used in depictions of the Garden of Eden. In this essay I will
 
I'll contest that. It really doesn't look any stranger than any other murder caught on film. I believe I read that there were something like 400 murders in 2023 in NYC. So a little over 1 a day. We don't read about many that get this level of attention for, say, a barista or a homeless person.
How many of those have you seen? I can't think of any.

That said, if the victim was a nobody in the ghetto, maybe they wouldn't have worked it as much. It's a fact if some black kid disappears there is a likelihood that it doesn't make the news as a rich white kid.
 
They did. I posted the actual press release for it. The physical address is not announced.

He was, and was publicized. His name is Andrew Witty. Did you just get here?
I saw the announcement you linked to. It also contained a link to the investor relations page for details. Not sure what details were in the link earlier as it now goes to a statement about the killing. But it wouldn't surprise me if the location (conference hotel) was available there. While not widely advertised, they probably didn't regard it as secret. The announcement did state the date and the start time for the conference. (8 AM)

It's also possible that someone posted the location on their LinkedIn. I see that type of thing frequently: "Attending ______ Conference at ______ hotel in _____ next week!" or "See my presentation streaming live from _____ on Monday!" People post ◊◊◊◊ on social media all the time. My brother-in-law posts pictures of the socks he wears most days. (No, I don't know why.) And sometimes pictures of the food he eats at a restaurant. (Why????)

Putting aside the assumption that this particular person was the specific target, I think that's all the necessary information needed. That is, other than being able to identify several high ranking executives that would likely be there. Might not even expect them to be staying at a different hotel.

So if he knows the conference hotel, and that the event starts at 8 AM, he has what he needs. He can guestimate the times that one (or more) of his potential targets might step outside. Likely times: Before the start (7-8 AM) Around lunch (12-1) towards the end of the day (4-6) and likely "break" times (around 10 AM and 3 PM) These are times attendees are likely to be outside, coming or going for meals, conversations, or just fresh air. His plan may have been to be around during these times. It just so happens that he saw a target early in the first opportunity window.

(This is all based on agendas and behavior at conferences I've attended.)

The only reason detailed information is needed is if there was a single specific target, which may or may not have been the case.

The phone call could have been related. Or it could have been just talking to some friend about something unrelated. Or it could have been AT&T calling to sell him a fiber-optic plan. (They call me several times per day.)

Speculation can be entertaining, but there's not enough information to rule out many scenarios at this point.
 
How many of those have you seen? I can't think of any.

That's kind of my point. National news isn't picking up on a random shooting caught on film. You might, at best, see a snippet of it on your local news source but CBS isn't reporting on it multiple times a day.

I can take it one step further though. How many murders in the entirety of the US are caught on camera in a single day? How many of those do you hear of? None...unless they involve someone the news deems important enough to cover.
That said, if the victim was a nobody in the ghetto, maybe they wouldn't have worked it as much. It's a fact if some black kid disappears there is a likelihood that it doesn't make the news as a rich white kid.

Yes, that is a fact. Same with the victims. That's what I was saying :)
 
I saw the announcement you linked to. It also contained a link to the investor relations page for details. Not sure what details were in the link earlier as it now goes to a statement about the killing. But it wouldn't surprise me if the location (conference hotel) was available there.
Thats why I linked the previous year's, too. They dont.
While not widely advertised, they probably didn't regard it as secret. The announcement did state the date and the start time for the conference. (8 AM)
They are required to. They are not required to publicize the address, and because of protestors/activists, or even competition, they tend not to.
It's also possible that someone posted the location on their LinkedIn. I see that type of thing frequently: "Attending ______ Conference at ______ hotel in _____ next week!" or "See my presentation streaming live from _____ on Monday!" People post ◊◊◊◊ on social media all the time. My brother-in-law posts pictures of the socks he wears most days. (No, I don't know why.) And sometimes pictures of the food he eats at a restaurant. (Why????)
Agreed. I'm not saying it was super secret. I was refuting the simple minded asssumption that it was publicly posted. It wasnt.

Further, I'm saying that that door, of the three entrances, would not be the prime candidate to ambush, for any reason. It was not even the main entrance, or the entrance that should have stood out as more likely.
Putting aside the assumption that this particular person was the specific target,
...which I am by no means assuming anymore...
I think that's all the necessary information needed. That is, other than being able to identify several high ranking executives that would likely be there. Might not even expect them to be staying at a different hotel.

So if he knows the conference hotel, and that the event starts at 8 AM, he has what he needs. He can guestimate the times that one (or more) of his potential targets might step outside. Likely times: Before the start (7-8 AM) Around lunch (12-1) towards the end of the day (4-6) and likely "break" times (around 10 AM and 3 PM) These are times attendees are likely to be outside, coming or going for meals, conversations, or just fresh air. His plan may have been to be around during these times. It just so happens that he saw a target early in the first opportunity window.
Possible, but seems to me haphazard, considering how well he had everything else planned. With everything set and bike poised for escape and all the other plans, the most critical planning stage would be "well I'll just pick a random door and time and hope for the best"? That seems inconsistent with how well everything else was planned.

{Eta: and planning to lean against a wall looking like freaking Archer for hours in daylight is going to draw attention, and police will likely be around later in the day. I'm not buying the "well.ill just stand here till the most important part of my plan may or may not stumble in front of me"}
(This is all based on agendas and behavior at conferences I've attended.)

The only reason detailed information is needed is if there was a single specific target, which may or may not have been the case.

The phone call could have been related. Or it could have been just talking to some friend about something unrelated. Or it could have been AT&T calling to sell him a fiber-optic plan. (They call me several times per day.)
I...don't think a guy about to commit a public murder would be answering random telemarketing calls on a freaking burner phone.
Speculation can be entertaining, but there's not enough information to rule out many scenarios at this ppoint.
What is more interesting are the lengths some here are going to argue against the proposition. I just got done with a guy ridiculing the plausibility of the killer using symbolism, when he wrote words on the shell casings and left monopoly money in his famous backpack. It's not a question that he was using symbolism. Yet here we are at the ISF.
 
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That's kind of my point. National news isn't picking up on a random shooting caught on film. You might, at best, see a snippet of it on your local news source but CBS isn't reporting on it multiple times a day.

I can take it one step further though. How many murders in the entirety of the US are caught on camera in a single day? How many of those do you hear of? None...unless they involve someone the news deems important enough to cover.


Yes, that is a fact. Same with the victims. That's what I was saying :)
I'm not trying to argue that there isn't a two tiered, even 5 tiered society and justice system, I know for a fact there is. I'm just saying video like the killing is red meat to the media. And that makes it red meat for the police.
 
I'm not trying to argue that there isn't a two tiered, even 5 tiered society and justice system, I know for a fact there is. I'm just saying video like the killing is red meat to the media. And that makes it red meat for the police.
Then the jerk offs need to become vegetarians. Thompson was no more worthy of attention than any other New York homicide victim.

If they had an ounce of humanity, they'd say "back of the line, scooter. And it's a long line."
 
Associated Press account of Mangione's arrest in an Altoona, Pa. McDonald's.
Mangione was arrested in Altoona, Pennsylvania — about 230 miles (about 370 kilometers) west of New York City — after a McDonald’s customer recognized him and notified an employee, authorities said. Officers found him sitting at a back table, wearing a blue medical mask and looking at a laptop, according to a Pennsylvania police criminal complaint. He initially gave them a fake ID, but when an officer asked Mangione whether he’d been to New York recently, he “became quiet and started to shake,” the complaint says. When he pulled his mask down at officers’ request, “we knew that was our guy,” rookie Officer Tyler Frye said. Associated Press article link

News reports about Mangione's court appearance last night in Pennsylvania.
Mangione did not enter a plea when he appeared in a Pennsylvania court Monday evening. He did, however, reject several claims made by Pennsylvania prosecutors. Prosecutors said Mangione was found with several thousands of dollars in cash, a portion of it in foreign currency, CNN and The Associated Press reported. The suspected gunman disputed the amount and suggested it may have been planted, according to CNN and Fox News.com. Mangione also denied knowing about sophisticated criminal tactics, CNN reported, particularly the use of a Faraday bag, which blocks electronic devices from electromagnetic signals. Yahoo News article link

In his court appearance today Mangione refused to agree to extradition to New York. His defense attorney, Thomas Dickey, told the court his client wants a hearing.
 
Then the jerk offs need to become vegetarians. Thompson was no more worthy of attention than any other New York homicide victim.

If they had an ounce of humanity, they'd say "back of the line, scooter. And it's a long line."
Sorry, it doesn't work that way. Homicides are not solved on a first come, first served basis. A huge factor is the available evidence and media attention. A lot of crimes don't offer the leads this one offered. Plus the media attention. The suspect gave them a huge trail of bread crumbs to follow.

This is Manhattan with 15,000 police video surveillance cameras. Far more per square foot than almost anywhere in the US. Far more than in the other NYC Boroughs or in the rest of the State. They were able to quickly see video footage and were able to track their suspect. There were 52 murders that have happened in Manhattan this year. On average, 5% of all murders were premeditated. That means only 2 or 3 premeditated murders happened in Manhattan this year. And it's likely this is was the only one caught on video.

No way was this not going to be prioritized.
 
For those who for whatever reasons object to discussing liklihoods:

The NYPD's firearms experts determined this was that goofy assassins pistol used. Our own member Dr. Sid pointed out that you can see the gas cloud emit from the rear after firing, so it had to be a semi. I checked, and he was right, and indeed it turned out to be a semi. Andy_Ross and TJM also argued that the experts were wrong.

We were literally ahead of NYPD while just ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ around here. It's fun, and what skeptics do.
 
I'm not trying to argue that there isn't a two tiered, even 5 tiered society and justice system, I know for a fact there is. I'm just saying video like the killing is red meat to the media. And that makes it red meat for the police.
yeah, but this was even bigger than that. this guy was sending, as it turns out, a pretty popular political message. the motive, status of the victim, and the circumstances are all really pretty novel. and people have a huge interest in it.

i don't really agree that all murders should be looked at equally. public interest should be a factor. and by interest i mean how it effects society moreso than how interested the public is in the case, even though those often go hand in hand. like it or not, this killing was a pretty big deal.
 
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