Assassination of United Healthcare CEO

[dann]

(...) If the killer did it out of anger at UHC is he really going to feel satisfied with killing just the current CEO? Wouldn't his ambition to be to get the next one, too? And the next? And any other executives he can reach? Or perhaps he's not angry at just that one company, perhaps he'll go after the CEO of another insuror next. And then another. If they don't catch him he might take out all the big insurors' CEOs...then swing around again for their successors. (...)

(...) So now they are saying only HALF the Monopoly money was there (presumably half of what comes with the board game). (...)

That's why he didn't leave the gun in the backpack.

 

[Darat]

Slain Healthcare CEO’s Life Airbrushed by Media

Journalistic skepticism isn't magically exempt when someone dies

www.kenklippenstein.com

"Facts about Thompson’s life that he would not have wanted published of course exist (I detail some below). But the major media’s obsession with decorum — we mustn't speak ill of the dead! — has rendered it unable to tell the truth about who this man really was."

That is the first time I heard he served time in jail and lived separately to his wife BUT much more important it's the first time I read about him being sued for insider trading and his other shady sell-off of stock. It even adds fuel for the CTers.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Why would they be? How many handguns on your streets would benefit from suppression?

Handguns aren't allowed but rifles are. Not on the street but on ranges and private land.

 

[newyorkguy]

I now am convinced it was the 6th Street Avenue entrance because the hotel is on the right.

The location of the shooting has been pinpointed in numerous news reports. The easiest to find it is on the Wiki page.



In the video you can see the attack takes place on a narrow side street. W. 54th Street is one-way eastbound so the camera is pointed east. (Years ago my Mom worked on that block, but on the north side and closer to 7th Avenue.) In addition to the woman standing in the doorway right where the shooting takes place, video shows the SUV parked to the left of the shooting is occupied. You can see the brake lights go on and off. I wonder if that was the car service SUV whose driver I saw interviewed. He said he was scrolling on his phone when he heard shots.

The other thing that I noticed, from the surveillance video posted on the Wiki page, was the way Thompson was staggered by the impact of the first round. Staggered and knocked down.

 

[newyorkguy]

That's not 6th Avenue. W. 54th Street is one-way eastbound -- easy way to remember, 'even is eastbound' -- and the vehicles are pointed away from the camera, thus the camera is pointed east.

 

[jeremyp]

And police said he staked out the hotel immediately after arriving in New York. That was actually before the press release of the conference even happening. He was tipped off in advance. Kind of had to be from someone "on the inside, or in the know", wouldn't it?

Yes but the "inside" is a lot of people. You don't organise a conference on the morning of the day it is supposed to happen. All of the people who were eligible to be invited must have been told about it in advance.

 

[Matthew Best]

That is the first time I heard he served time in jail and lived separately to his wife BUT much more important it's the first time I read about him being sued for insider trading and his other shady sell-off of stock. It even adds fuel for the CTers.

Explains why his wife was a bit vague about the "threats" he had received. It also offers up an alternative motive to the one everyone's been assuming.

 

[jeremyp]

Isn't that basically what Gavrilo Princip did?

Similar. Princip picked a street corner as the best place to try to get a shot off as the car went past. He was standing outside a delicatessen and maybe he had been in there to get whatever bagel equivalent they sold in prewar Sarajevo. The car turned up the street (wrongly) stopped and stalled as the driver put it into reverse, right next to where Princip was standing.

Thermal would have us believe that all of this is too convenient to be a coincidence. Unfortunately, we know that this was just an act of desperation because the actual plan had already been foiled.

My feeling is (and this is just speculation based on what I have read) that the shooter knew Thompson would turn up at the hotel that day (after all, he was due to speak there), had guessed it would be in the morning and planned to stake out the hotel until he arrived. He then got lucky in not having to wait long. I don't think there was a person "on the inside", but I can't rule the possibility out.

 

[Wudang]

However low something's prior probability is, once it's happened its probability is 100%. As Pratchett said "1 in a million chances happen 9 times out of 10".

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

Similar. Princip picked a street corner as the best place to try to get a shot off as the car went past. He was standing outside a delicatessen and maybe he had been in there to get whatever bagel equivalent they sold in prewar Sarajevo. The car turned up the street (wrongly) stopped and stalled as the driver put it into reverse, right next to where Princip was standing.

Thermal would have us believe that all of this is too convenient to be a coincidence. Unfortunately, we know that this was just an act of desperation because the actual plan had already been foiled.

My feeling is (and this is just speculation based on what I have read) that the shooter knew Thompson would turn up at the hotel that day (after all, he was due to speak there), had guessed it would be in the morning and planned to stake out the hotel until he arrived. He then got lucky in not having to wait long. I don't think there was a person "on the inside", but I can't rule the possibility out.

Not exactly. What had happened was that one of Princip's co-conspirators had lobbed a bomb at the Archduke's car as planned, but the driver had spotted it and sped up, the bomb detonating under a later car and severely injuring two of its occupants. The convoy sped up as a result and Princip and the others couldn't get off their bombs. The Archduke reached his destination safely, gave his speech and told the Governor of Sarajevo that he wanted to visit the injured at hospital. No provisions were made for this change of plan so when the driver of the car followed the original route, the Governor started shouting at him that he was going the wrong way, he tried to reverse, staller out the car and Princip, who was at the location by happenstance took the chance that fell into his lap.

There was no failback plan other than "get out of Bosnia asap".

 

[Donal]

Obviously. Still completely unnecessary ,and goddamned foolish to toss on the ground where he would be handing evidence to investigators.

That would be incredibly stupid, which is my point. The app requires a credit card for payment and each bike is GPS tracked, because they don't want people stealing them. That's an electronic trail of breadcrumbs for investigators. Also, police said they misreported the Citibike thing. He was on a plain old mechanical bicycle.

You do that before and after, not during. "During" is when you need to be unplugged and untrackable.

Oh, good idea. More phone record proof, now on the victims own phone, linking you directly to the murder.

I'm obviously being facetious about social media. The obvious, obvious point is that you unplug and leave zero evidence behind you if you don't want to be caught.

Which I already said. But again, you don't take the burner with you at game time, and you certainly don't leave it behind to be found.

No, it forces him to pull the ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ mask down, showing his face again, and leave possible DNA and prints on the bottle and wrappers.

I mean, this ◊◊◊◊ is not ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ complicated. Bad guys are not domesticated little knuckleheads who can't function without a goddamned phone for 20 minutes while they commit their major crimes. Unplug, don't show your face around cameras (or at all as long as you are not drawing additional attention by hiding yourself)). And for Christ sake, change your outerwear when you commit the crime. Be wearing a different jacket before and after you do it, but not while you do it. And nothing distinctive like that oddball backpack. That's how they found him on video in Central Park; that weird backpack stuck out.

Speaking of Central Park, he is on video entering the park on bike with the backpack, and leaving without it 15 minutes later. So two possibilities: he's a raging nitwit who likes to leave maximum evidence behind him, or he is planting misleading stuff, which would account for the sticking-out-like-a-sore-thumb backpack. Not likely, but longshot possible.

Irrespective of your obvious years of experience with contract killings, dude ain't been caught yet.

 

[Donal]

Ok. But their contribution to the problem of high costs is miniscule. Being used as a scapegoat for the entire industry does not help us reach the single payer people want.

They are actually the main driver behind skyrocketing healthcare costs. Even more than our aging population.

And ya, one aprticularly shiny cog in the machine won't derail the whole thing. But, you gotta start somewhere. I've been using this to get people around me mroe on board with the New York Health Act.

 

[acbytesla]

That's not 6th Avenue. W. 54th Street is one-way eastbound -- easy way to remember, 'even is eastbound' -- and the vehicles are pointed away from the camera, thus the camera is pointed east.

View attachment 58023

Thank you. The news articles I read said that Thompson just left his hotel across the street. Using that description and Google Maps I had determined he had stayed at the Warwick. We'll this tells me he didn't stay at the Warwick.

 

[Thermal]

Similar. Princip picked a street corner as the best place to try to get a shot off as the car went past. He was standing outside a delicatessen and maybe he had been in there to get whatever bagel equivalent they sold in prewar Sarajevo. The car turned up the street (wrongly) stopped and stalled as the driver put it into reverse, right next to where Princip was standing.

Thermal would have us believe that all of this is too convenient to be a coincidence. Unfortunately, we know that this was just an act of desperation because the actual plan had already been foiled.

No. There was an active conspiracy to publicly assassinate the Archduke going on, and it's not tremendously surprising that they stumbled across one of the would-be murderers while that conspiracy to publicly assassinate was actively going on.

My feeling is (and this is just speculation based on what I have read) that the shooter knew Thompson would turn up at the hotel that day (after all, he was due to speak there), had guessed it would be in the morning and planned to stake out the hotel until he arrived. He then got lucky in not having to wait long. I don't think there was a person "on the inside", but I can't rule the possibility out.

What gets me is exact the time and place that the killer set up to kill Thompson. It's not exactly public knowledge.

But let's assume the killer was aware that the conference was going to take place at this hotel (which is not publicized anywhere, nor was last year's conference). Let's further assume that he knew Thompson would be speaking there (again, not publicized: the Big Kahuna at this thing who appeared in reporting was CEO Andrew Wittty). Great. All that is a given.

How would the killer have any idea that Thompson would be using this entrance? There are three, and zero reason to choose a perch at this one, unless he had reason to suspect that Thompson would be using it. Not staying at the Hilton, which would make more sense, or even staying at the Plaza or wherever and being driven there, dropped off at the 6th street entrance.

After all the careful planning this guy took to set this up, from the clandestine entrance into NYC a week earlier to the bike set up in the alley to escape, do you seriously propose that it's likely that he just chose one of the three doors with an "lol let's try this one, I'm so random"? Not even getting into diddy-bopping around the neighborhood till he hangs up the phone and bee lines to his ambush spot where he suddenly sits still and waits?

Sure. Totes looks random. Just implausible that he knew damn right well where Thompson would be and when.

 

[shemp]

Isn't that basically what Gavrilo Princip did?

What kind of bagel did Gavrilo Princip munch?

 

[Thermal]

Irrespective of your obvious years of experience with contract killings,

Nope. But for both work and play, I do take an occasional interest in being invisible and bypassing security.

dude ain't been caught yet.

Which is what keeps me interested. He really should have been, whether he was slick or the bungling lucky idiot so many here seem to think.

 

[Thermal]

Thank you. The news articles I read said that Thompson just left his hotel across the street. Using that description and Google Maps I had determined he had stayed at the Warwick. We'll this tells me he didn't stay at the Warwick.

I was wondering what the Warwick thing was all about. The early reporting was that Thompson was at the Marriot, which I'm like 50% sure was the one I stayed at, a little off Times Square. But there's a few Marriots, I think.

 

[Thermal]

Yes but the "inside" is a lot of people. You don't organise a conference on the morning of the day it is supposed to happen. All of the people who were eligible to be invited must have been told about it in advance.

And all these people knew about Thompson's sleeping arrangements? How many people on planet Earth do you suppose knew Thompson would be staying not only not at the Hilton for the one-day conference, but which door he would use to walk in?

 

[Andy_Ross]

Good video by Garand Thumb on why it wasn't any kind of exotic pistol

 

[Donal]

Nope. But for both work and play, I do take an occasional interest in being invisible and bypassing security.

Then you should get a better understanding of what DNA is and how it is used.

Which is what keeps me interested. He really should have been, whether he was slick or the bungling lucky idiot so many here seem to think.

So, things aren't playing out to your unqualified assumptions?

 

[acbytesla]

I was wondering what the Warwick thing was all about. The early reporting was that Thompson was at the Marriot, which I'm like 50% sure was the one I stayed at, a little off Times Square. But there's a few Marriots, I think.

That explains it. The Luxury Collection Midtown Manhattan Hotel is a Mariott Hotel. It is on the North side of 54th Street and West side of 6 and 1/2 Street. That entrance is on a direct line 142 yards to the Hilton entrance on 54th. I can see how he could easily watch the Marriott entrance for Thompson to come out. He knew exaclty where to be.

 

[plague311]

I have to agree with Thermal in that I don't understand the focus on the gun. In the grand scheme of things it really means less than nothing. I would also like to see him get arrested just so we can get further details surrounding the whole thing.

I'm personally leaning towards the wife hiring the killer to take him out, but that has some holes. I believe they were separated so I'm not sure how much of his schedule she'd really know, but where he's staying and where the conference is being held would be pretty standard information that she'd be privy to. The kid obviously did his homework and made sure he knew the ins and outs of the location and the getaway plan.

I don't believe for a second that he's from Georgia. He might have traveled from there at best. I wonder if he'll go all D.B. Cooper and vanish entirely. I guess I'm good either way, if he gets away then it'll be because of his well thought out plan. I do love the monopoly money bit though.

 

[Andy_Ross]

I think the idea that it is some kind of exotic pistol designed for silent assassination makes it seem like a movie style 'professional hitman'
Day of the Jackal and all that.

 

[Thermal]

Then you should get a better understanding of what DNA is and how it is used.

That's a fairly stupid observation. I've been howling to the rooftops since the beginning of the thread that you can't leave anything AT ALL behind, specifically because of possible DNA. Did you mean something other than the dim watt comment it appears to be?

So, things aren't playing out to your unqualified assumptions?

As I said, more than once, that's what has me interested. The guy seems to have one foot on each side of the fence, well-planned and executed and bungling nitwit. So that makes me wonder if he is really good and playing 4-D chess, or as I thought early on, maybe he's ex military (enlisted, not officer). That he is still inexplicably running loose and unidentified indicates he must be pretty ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ good, but his ridiculous trail of evidence that will 100% get him busted makes no sense with that.

There is the outlier scenario that he has no contact with anyone else, except maybe a nutty cult or something. No family, friends, coworkers, or anyone else who is +/- law abiding and would quickly recognize him, (and could use that $60,000 reward), noticed he has disappeared from the community, and dimed him out. Maybe police know who he is and are trying to catch him? Maybe. But if this guy kills someone else during the time police aren't revealing his real or fake ID name, they are going to look pretty stupid.

 

[Thermal]

Good video by Garand Thumb on why it wasn't any kind of exotic pistol

Good video and pretty convincing. The gas ejection noted earlier was already convincing me the police had it wrong, though.

 

[Thermal]

I have to agree with Thermal in that I don't understand the focus on the gun. In the grand scheme of things it really means less than nothing. I would also like to see him get arrested just so we can get further details surrounding the whole thing.

I'm personally leaning towards the wife hiring the killer to take him out, but that has some holes. I believe they were separated so I'm not sure how much of his schedule she'd really know, but where he's staying and where the conference is being held would be pretty standard information that she'd be privy to. The kid obviously did his homework and made sure he knew the ins and outs of the location and the getaway plan.

Agreed, the wife would know or get access to his location, just as an emergency family contact, kid things or whatever. And yeah, the gun is kind of boring.

I don't believe for a second that he's from Georgia. He might have traveled from there at best. I wonder if he'll go all D.B. Cooper and vanish entirely. I guess I'm good either way, if he gets away then it'll be because of his well thought out plan. I do love the monopoly money bit though.

Police noted that the bus originated in Georgia, but made multiple stops and pickups on the way. They apparently have no way to determine where he may or may not have gotten on, but someone claims to have seen him on the bus in DC.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

I have to agree with Thermal in that I don't understand the focus on the gun. In the grand scheme of things it really means less than nothing. I would also like to see him get arrested just so we can get further details surrounding the whole thing.

I'm personally leaning towards the wife hiring the killer to take him out, but that has some holes. I believe they were separated so I'm not sure how much of his schedule she'd really know, but where he's staying and where the conference is being held would be pretty standard information that she'd be privy to. The kid obviously did his homework and made sure he knew the ins and outs of the location and the getaway plan.

I don't believe for a second that he's from Georgia. He might have traveled from there at best. I wonder if he'll go all D.B. Cooper and vanish entirely. I guess I'm good either way, if he gets away then it'll be because of his well thought out plan. I do love the monopoly money bit though.

The simplest explanation is the most likely, somebody financially ruined by Thompson, either a shareholder who lost big over his insider trading or somebody who had to pay out of pocket for medical billshis insurer should have covered.

 

[acbytesla]

As I said, more than once, that's what has me interested. The guy seems to have one foot on each side of the fence, well-planned and executed and bungling nitwit. So that makes me wonder if he is really good and playing 4-D chess, or as I thought early on, maybe he's ex military (enlisted, not officer). That he is still inexplicably running loose and unidentified indicates he must be pretty ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ good, but his ridiculous trail of evidence that will 100% get him busted makes no sense with that.

There is the outlier scenario that he has no contact with anyone else, except maybe a nutty cult or something. No family, friends, coworkers, or anyone else who is +/- law abiding and would quickly recognize him, (and could use that $60,000 reward), noticed he has disappeared from the community, and dimed him out. Maybe police know who he is and are trying to catch him? Maybe. But if this guy kills someone else during the time police aren't revealing his real or fake ID name, they are going to look pretty stupid.

He absolutely planned everything. But he did make mistakes. The distinctive backpack. Being right in front of the camera. These things allowed the police to have a suspect they could track.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Good video and pretty convincing. The gas ejection noted earlier was already convincing me the police had it wrong, though.

I said

"But the pistol hasn't been identified. It's not some super spy copy of an old Welrod.
It's just an automatic with a suppressor. It's obvious from the video."

Your reply

"Whatever. You're right and the professional investigators are all wrong."

 

[plague311]

Police noted that the bus originated in Georgia, but made multiple stops and pickups on the way. They apparently have no way to determine where he may or may not have gotten on, but someone claims to have seen him on the bus in DC.

Was that coming or going? I thought I read that someone had seen him in DC on his way out of town.

The simplest explanation is the most likely, somebody financially ruined by Thompson, either a shareholder who lost big over his insider trading or somebody who had to pay out of pocket for medical billshis insurer should have covered.

You're correct on the simplest explanation as a rule of thumb, but I'm not entirely convinced. I certainly believe that's the impression the assassin wants to give considering the current evidence. In fact, it's almost like it's excessively pointing in that direction. The wife wanting her husband dead is no more a complex explanation than anything else.

 

[plague311]

He absolutely planned everything. But he did make mistakes. The distinctive backpack. Being right in front of the camera. These things allowed the police to have a suspect they could track.

But he wanted the police to find the backpack. I don't think that was a mistake by any means. He left the monopoly money in there and the intent was for them to find it.

 

[theprestige]

I'm telling you, the majority of these clues aren't going to be due to planning, but due simply to the guy not thinking about all those details to any great degree. I wouldn't be surprised if he came up with his idea of a super elaborate plan, but most of it was actually irrelevant and ignored a lot of important things. He's probably in a motel room somewhere, watching the news, thinking, "oh ◊◊◊◊, the backpack? I'm an idiot. And also how are they getting 'master plan' from the backpack?"

 

[Vixen]

They have caught him, in Pennsylvania.

CNN —
[Breaking news update at 12:07 p.m. ET]

A man being questioned in connection with the fatal shooting nearly a week ago of UnitedHealthcare’s CEO in New York City was found Monday in Pennsylvania with a gun with a suppressor like the one used in the homicide, law enforcement officials briefed on the situation tell CNN.

The 26-year-old was picked up at a McDonald’s in Altoona after an employee thought he looked like the man in New York Police Department photos and called police, the sources said. He had fake IDs, including one NYPD believes was used by the killing suspect in New York, they said. CNN

 

[Thermal]

He absolutely planned everything. But he did make mistakes. The distinctive backpack. Being right in front of the camera. These things allowed the police to have a suspect they could track.

Since the backpack stood out so much, and he apparently left the Monopoly money in it on purpose, I'm calling that "part of the plan". But it is guaranteed to get him caught. Yet he's still a ghost a week later. I can only assume he had a full tilt jump out of the country with an ID set up, all pre-planned, or none of it makes any sense.

 

[Vixen]

But he wanted the police to find the backpack. I don't think that was a mistake by any means. He left the monopoly money in there and the intent was for them to find it.

I think maybe his plan was to scatter it about the body but in the melée realised he didn't have time.

 

[Andy_Ross]

BBC 'Live'

Police question person in hunt for killer of health insurance boss

Person of interest had a fake ID, CBS reports
published at 17:04

We have another short update from the BBC's US partner, CBS News.
The person being questioned in Pennsylvania had a fake New Jersey driving licence, a source told CBS.
We already heard the person of interest was carrying a gun similar to the one used in the shooting of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson.

Live updates: Police question man in hunt for UnitedHealthCare CEO killer, CBS reports

NYPD says the fatal shooting of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson in Manhattan was "a brazen, targeted attack".

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Thermal]

I said

"But the pistol hasn't been identified. It's not some super spy copy of an old Welrod.
It's just an automatic with a suppressor. It's obvious from the video."

Your reply

"Whatever. You're right and the professional investigators are all wrong."

Correct. And?

You made bald claims. The video guy showed the operation, which was inconsistent with what we see in the video of the killer. That's called "persuasive evidence".

 

[Andy_Ross]

Person being questioned was reportedly carrying a weapon

We have more details now from CBS News, the BBC's US partner.

They have spoken to a source close to the investigation that said a person was taken into custody on an unrelated matter, but is now being questioned about the death of Thompson.

It is not confirmed if the person is the suspect.
The source said the person was carrying a firearm similar to the one used in the shooting of the UnitedHealthCare CEO.
The source also said the physical description matched that of the person of interest being sought by the NYPD.

Live updates: Police question man in hunt for UnitedHealthCare CEO killer, CBS reports

NYPD says the fatal shooting of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson in Manhattan was "a brazen, targeted attack".

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Thermal]

They have caught him, in Pennsylvania.

They think they got him, but it looks like him. Fake IDs, silencer...

Why do they always have to disappoint?

And he's in a ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ McDonalds while his pic is still everywhere. That's how they got him, a worker saw him and said, "hey, that looks exactly like the guy on my feed". A couple weeks from now and probably no one would have remembered this story whi;e doing holiday stuff. I just hate people.

 

[Vixen]

They think they got him, but it looks like him. Fake IDs, silencer...

Why do they always have to disappoint?

And he's in a ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ McDonalds while his pic is still everywhere. I just hate people.

You don't think it's him?