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Ashida Kim: Martial Arts Fraud

thaiboxerken

Penultimate Amazing
Joined
Sep 17, 2001
Messages
33,871
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l3y3B4cls0

I just saw this on youtube. This guy, Ashida Kim was rather popular in the 80's and sold plenty of ninja books. He's full of garbage, as you can see in the video. This feat has as much to do with having "deadly" fingers as walking on glass has to do with having steel feet. This guy may as well walk up to side-show magicians and spit on their faces.
 
I am wondering if Ashida Kim decided to be a ninja after failing to impress anyone intelligent with magic. Perhaps he realized that aspiring ninjas are easy to fool.
 
Hey, my knuckles are stronger than a no.2 pencil, too. Does that mean I'm a magic ninja?
 
You could be a magic ninja in the same way Sylvia Browne is a psychic detective.
 
wow. 1 pencil V.S. 4 fingers. How does he do it??????
Is boring me to death one of his special powers?
 
I believe it was Kim that was featured in a Black Belt interview way back then.

When asked how his "ninja" moves compared to other traditional martial arts techniques, he said, "I try to make them more sinister"......

Perhaps he was referring to some of his film experiences.

There is more than a little controversy over the authenticity of any of the ninjitsu (there are other names) techniques.
For a long time, the sole practitioner and keeper of the only ninja school in existence was Mr. Hatsumi out of Noda city, Japan.
Hatsumi had a rather small practice and a museum of ninja artifacts and weapons. Some of his students appeared in "To Live And Let Die".

The first American to graduate from the school (though perhaps not the first Westerner) was Stephen Hayes, who came back to America certified to teach.
He published a couple of books, including one in collaboration with Hatsumi.
This was essentially the start of the "ninja craze" that swept the martial-arts community back then, largely displacing the "kung-fu craze" that had preceded it.
As happens with these things, a variety of competing "masters" sprang up, often claiming to have recieved instruction from conveniently-dead teachers from other traditions than that practiced by Hatsumi.
Soon, ninjas became stock villains in a wide variety of movies and TV shows.
As well, film distributors began importing the huge variety of made-for-Asian-audiences ninja films, mostly coming out of China and featuring all manner of ridiculous stunts.

I see now that an "official" ninjitsu organization has sprung up, and Mr. Hatsumi is in dispute with these people.

Some years ago, the historian Stephen Turnbull wrote a book on the ninja. Turnbull is a well-respected authority on feudal Japan and the Samurai culture.
His book created quite a stir, for he maintained that almost none of the ninja lore that we have today is authentic.
It all sprang, he said, from the period after the reformation that re-organized Japanese society and abolished the Samurai. The ninja, already objects of folklore, became glorified in plays, books, and so forth which (not unlike our own "dime novel" Westerns) greatly exaggerated their feats and legends.

According to Turnbull, the ninja were irregular warriors who were not part of the Samurai class. Coming from wild-and-wooly provinces like Koga and Iga, they developed methods of fighting different from the highly organized armies of Samurai, and became skilled at infiltration, guerilla warfare, and so forth.

This was quite a shock to the martial-arts community, who essentially accused Turnbull of making the whole thing up.

The silliness continues.
 
Hand in the raccoon trap! That brings back memories, as I used to do that stunt with the Jim Rose sideshow back in the early 1990's. This guy's patter is dead serious, our schtick was more high-camp. I also used to smash my finger with a can of canned food. NINJA!!!!!!!
 
The first rule of being a ninja is "always be able to kill your students".

Is this guy taking students?
 
He should hand his "Official Grand Master Ninja" badge back in. That was less than crap.
 
So we have a white guy with a Japanese first name (which itself is actually a surname) and a Korean surname.

Yeah, he might be just a little full of it.

What a dumbass.
 
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You could be a magic ninja in the same way Sylvia Browne is a psychic detective.

The problem with being a ninja in Sylvia Browne's footsteps is that, based on her success record, you'll likely be killed on your first mission.

I pass.
 
Wow. Super Magic levitation skills. I can levitate better than that. He could have at least superimposed the guy with the hoop into the film. And where's that ball go? Could it be in his obviously cupped hand? His palming skills are worse than mine (read: my slight of hand has all the subtlety of a crowbar to the face, and I could muster a better 'ball disappear trick' than him)
 
Had a second look (OK, I'm a masochist). I may change my mind on this...

I get the feeling this is actually supposed to be funny. As in, it's a spoof of other totally terrible "ninja" acts by being the last word in terrible. In fact, it's an all-night walk from the last station on the Terrible railway. It's over-the-horizon terrible. It's Sylvia Browne terrible.
 
I just saw that trick by the sideshow specialist at the last SAM meeting I attended as well.

Yes, I introduced that stunt to sideshow in the early 1990's. I can't say I invented it, as I learned it from a drunken lawyer when I was a child. It works much better, in my opinion, than the racoon trap, as it makes a much louder "BANG" sound when the can hits. The best way to do it is to put your finger on top of a metal plate that will ring like a bell when hit.

This thread is sort of funny for me, as we also studied old martial arts books to find sideshow stunts! Tim "Zamora" Cridland used a number of these in his act, including breaking a long wooden staff over his back.
 
I believe it was Kim that was featured in a Black Belt interview way back then.

When asked how his "ninja" moves compared to other traditional martial arts techniques, he said, "I try to make them more sinister"......

(snippity snip)

According to Turnbull, the ninja were irregular warriors who were not part of the Samurai class. Coming from wild-and-wooly provinces like Koga and Iga, they developed methods of fighting different from the highly organized armies of Samurai, and became skilled at infiltration, guerilla warfare, and so forth.

This was quite a shock to the martial-arts community, who essentially accused Turnbull of making the whole thing up.

The silliness continues.

I've always found the whole debate kind of retarded. From what I've read of feudal Japan, the ninja resembled a combination of special forces and guerilla fighters. It's not like they had mystical powers, they just developed a decent system of comprehensive fighting.

If someone wanted a comparable experience in modern society, I would think it would benefit them to study a few modern martial arts used by the various militaries around the world, along with camouflage, concealment, tracking/stalking, explosives, improvised weaponry, firearms, unconventional warfare, small squad fighting, diversionary tactics, etc.

Even if you're not involved with the military or some guerilla group, you can probably find places to learn a lot of those skills on your own if you really want to be some modern ninja equivalent.

Alternatively, you could do some actual research and try to hash out a reasonable representation of the techniques used by the ninja, using a few people with experience in feudal Japanese martial arts, history, and some knowledge of modern techniques that can be retrofitted into the technology available at the time.

Or you could just dress up and play ninja with your friends. Whatever.
 
Ashida Kim is a favorite target over at www.e-budo.com. Ashida Kim was a widely known joke in budo circles in the 80s, and he remains so today. One of my favorite budo scholars, Miek Skoss (www.koryu.com) coined the term 'ninjacompoops' to describe folks like A.Kim.

Ninja, otherwise: All blown out of porportion, IMO. They were just regular samurai (think officers) or ashigaru (think grunts) who were tasked with sneak-and-peek.



Many of the old sword schools had a subset of technical knowledge relating to subterfuge, sneakery and espionage.

Ninjutsu was marketed aggressively, and a willing public bought into it. Lately lots of the folks who were in on the marketing frenzy of the 80s and early 90s have been backing away from the ninja-thing.
 
Ashida Kim is a favorite target over at www.e-budo.com. Ashida Kim was a widely known joke in budo circles in the 80s, and he remains so today. One of my favorite budo scholars, Miek Skoss (www.koryu.com) coined the term 'ninjacompoops' to describe folks like A.Kim.

Ninja, otherwise: All blown out of porportion, IMO. They were just regular samurai (think officers) or ashigaru (think grunts) who were tasked with sneak-and-peek.

Well if the reference above to Turnbull's book (and the claim itself) is accurate, they were nothing to do with the Samurai. That seems to be a post-hoc rationalisation by the re-enactment/enthusiast crowd - certainly the sword-fans react against the made-up Ninjato by saying that the Ninja's sword would have been a shortened Samurai katana, because they themselves were Samurai. All that makes sense on the face of it, but you still need evidence to say it.

I know that's not the thrust of what you're saying (which I agree with), but it's quite an important point - status being everything in feudal Japan.
 
Ashida Kim is a favorite target over at www.e-budo.com. Ashida Kim was a widely known joke in budo circles in the 80s, and he remains so today. One of my favorite budo scholars, Miek Skoss (www.koryu.com) coined the term 'ninjacompoops' to describe folks like A.Kim.

I was just about to say the same thing. E-Budo used to be a hell of a good forum, I stoped going when the owner (a real-life mercenary in Iraq) kept forgetting to renew the URL´s license.

Their other favorite target is Frank Dux, the only living person that van Damme could have accurately role-played.

Funny that when I read this topic´s title I was suddenly aware of how all this paranormal stuff relates to what´s (still!) going on in the Martial Arts scene with its endless lists of "soke dokies" (to quote the guy behind 24FC).

JREF should have a special department to debunk MA frauds.
 
Geez, he's STILL around? He's not a ninja, he's a cockroach. You just can't get rid of him!
 
The "Levitation" demo is hilarious! :D

How many years of Ninjitsu training do I need in order to learn how to sit on the ground and raise my legs?

My favorite Ninja from the 80's was Sho Kosugi. His two boys were recently on the competition show, Sasuke (AKA Ninja Warrior in the US).
 
Yeah, Revenge of the Ninja with Sho is the best ninja flick ever.

AND Sho was also the bad ninja in my show The Master!
 
Is it me, or has the balance of martial arts insanity shifted a bit away from the "ninja master" BS and into the "one shot ultra special forces killing technique" BS?

Maybe I'm just not "in the know" enough about martial arts BS. :)
 
Is it me, or has the balance of martial arts insanity shifted a bit away from the "ninja master" BS and into the "one shot ultra special forces killing technique" BS?

It goes in cycles. I've been doing budo for 33 years (damn ... yeah, it's been that long), and there's always some New Thing that takes the spotlight and gets its proponents famous for a while. Till the NEXT Big Thing catches the MA consumers' attention.

Ooooh. Sparkly!

I guess I'm a fuddy duddy. I just keep plodding along studying classical Japanese arts. I hared about a bit when was younger, but the older I get the less likely I am to be entertained by doing something else.

cg
 
I just keep plodding along studying classical Japanese arts.

Your picture in the profile sugests Iaido or Kendo. Which one?

And you are completely right about the cycles. I think the one right now is stupic 5-class kuroty people dressing up in colorfull gi claiming to be Dai Grand Master Shihan of this or that Japanese style. The "Super Sokei Dokies".
 
I study a sogo budo with roots in Sekiguchi Ryu, but with more modern influences tucked around the edges. Central methodologies are jujutsu and kenjutsu (both batto and paired forms), but with a fairly detailed syllabus of other weapons (ranging from naginata to jo to tessen) and a subset of striking (kempo).

My favorite neo-budo-fad was the pressure point, no-touch folks ...

cg
 
I study a sogo budo with roots in Sekiguchi Ryu, but with more modern influences tucked around the edges. Central methodologies are jujutsu and kenjutsu (both batto and paired forms), but with a fairly detailed syllabus of other weapons (ranging from naginata to jo to tessen) and a subset of striking (kempo).

Fun stuff. I studied Krav Maga with a good teacher here in NY for a few years (apparently I was lucky to find a reputable instructor, as the art is subject to a lot of BS artists these days), and have been doing my thing with that and American boxing for a while. Mostly just to stay in shape, to protect myself in the highly unlikely event of some kind of mugging, and just because it's fun, god damn it.

Er... I mean... I HAVE STUDIED SPECIAL FORCES KILLING TECHNIQUES! I AM A MASTER OF SUPER ONESHOT KILL!

Or something.

I actually did some ninjutsu under a theoretically reputable school in Boston when I was in high school (don't remember the particular style). It, to be frank, wasn't that effective. I trained with friends who studied American Kenpo (Kempo?), and they did a much better job than I did with the ninjutsu.
 
Is it me, or has the balance of martial arts insanity shifted a bit away from the "ninja master" BS and into the "one shot ultra special forces killing technique" BS?

Maybe I'm just not "in the know" enough about martial arts BS. :)

I don't think that "one shot ultra special forces killing technique" is BS though, I'm sure I've seen this done.







Oh, you mean without a gun. Sorry, carry on. . .
 
That ninjutsu thing is really weird. There is that Togakure guy and it SEEMS he is legit (I think he is, or was, the only "ninja" that could actually prove his lineage as master and head of styles). There are plenty of "outcasts" thought, as far as I heard, and it makes everything more cloudy.
But if you want to kick ass there are lots of more straightforward Martial Arts, one doesn´t need to learn 16th century spying.
 
But if you want to kick ass there are lots of more straightforward Martial Arts, one doesn´t need to learn 16th century spying.


I don't think that many modern "ninjutsu" schools actually do all the cloak
and dagger stuff. They mostly just do the unarmed combat and a few
of the exotic weapons.
 
I don't think that many modern "ninjutsu" schools actually do all the cloak
and dagger stuff. They mostly just do the unarmed combat and a few
of the exotic weapons.

The one I went to was almost entirely unarmed work.

It wasn't even a very useful style of unarmed combat, IMHO. If you need to study it for years to even halfway defend yourself... well, maybe look somewhere else.
 

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