Ed aristocratic woman & ex-US convict charged with killing their child

[Vixen]

Unusual story recently about a woman named Constance Marten, 34, who is 'missing' with a 48-year-old Brit, Mark Gordon, who was deported from the U.S.A. after serving a forty-year jail term for brutal rape offences committed when he was fourteen. It is unusual because police haven't said the pair are wanted for a crime. Police say they are concerned about the welfare of the pair's new born baby, which according to one news outlet, was born in a car, which was abandoned by a road side in Bolton, Lancs, UK, after having caught fire, and the couple's belongings burnt. They then headed to Essex (where they once lived, in Ilford) and are believed to have intended to catch a ferry to the Netherlands. Instead they took a taxi 70 miles to East Ham, in London, where they were 'last seen' on a station CCTV. They have kept their faces covered and in addition, appear to be living off ready cash from Marten's lush trust fund.

Marten had previously shown photos on a Face Book page of her 'sprogs' - as she called them and there is a photo circulating of Marten holding a little boy (or girl?) aged about eighteen months to two years. The pair apparently had last lived in Greenwich and had fled that and their last abodes leaving rent unpaid and a lot of damage to the properties.

Questions that leave me feeling uneasy about this case:

• Why did she give birth in a car (bought just six days earlier and then burnt)?)
• Police only mention a 'new born' baby. Where is the two-year-old?
• Where are the other 'sprogs'?
• If she has a million-poind trust fund, why didn't they pay any rent?
• Why are 200 Met Police now looking for the pair?

One paper says Gordon is on a sex-offenders register, so perhaps their other children were taken away by social workers, so the pair perhaps decided to have a baby in secret and then live below the radar for fear of the newborn being removed? Just my theory as to what this is all about. All the police have said is they are worried about the health of mother and baby, who have not received any medical care.

Gordon was jailed in the late 1980s in Florida after raping and assaulting a woman when he was 14. After serving a 20-year sentence he was deported back to the UK in 2010.

Napier Marten, an aristocratic film and music producer with links to the royal family, said in a message to his daughter that she was “much loved” and should find safety.

Police have been searching for the couple since their car broke down and caught fire on the M61 near Farnworth, Bolton, on 5 January. Police believe the baby may have been born in the car, and was less than two days old.

GUARDIAN


Gordon broke into two houses in Florida, aged 14, and had violently attacked the inhabitants with weapons.

‘He had taken cutlery and placed it around the house so he would have access to weapons. My son was an infant at the time and he was in the room next to us.’

Gordon battered Mr Nash around the head with the heavy shovel leaving him with serious head injuries before he fled the scene.

US police finally caught up with him a month later on June 13, 1989, when he confessed to both raids and was jailed for 40 years.

In 2010, having served half of his sentence, he was deported to the UK and put on the sex offenders register.

DM

 

[Trebuchet]

...a 48-year-old Brit, Mark Gordon, who was deported from the U.S.A. after serving a forty-year jail term...

So, (rule of) he was eight years old when sentenced?
Ok, nevermind.

 

[shemp]

...a 48-year-old Brit, Mark Gordon, who was deported from the U.S.A. after serving a forty-year jail term...

So, (rule of) he was eight years old when sentenced?
Ok, nevermind.

Hey, this isn't the Mathematics forum, whadya expect?

 

[theprestige]

Ah, yes, the proverbial 'aristocratic woman' of song and story.

 

[Vixen]

...a 48-year-old Brit, Mark Gordon, who was deported from the U.S.A. after serving a forty-year jail term...

So, (rule of) he was eight years old when sentenced?
Ok, nevermind.

He had a 40-year sentence but was released after twenty years in 2010.

 

[Vixen]

Ah, yes, the proverbial 'aristocratic woman' of song and story.

According to someone on Twitter (I know, it is not a reliable source!) she is estranged from her parents because they took custody of her other three or four kids. She's been with this guy since circa 2016 and appears to have married him. Listening to the father Napier (supposedly has 'royal connections' because he was once a page to the Queen) going on about bygones and what have you, there does seem to have been some kind of family rift, and Napier mentions he never liked Gordon. Controlling parent using the ex-con's record as a weapon to seize his daughter's kids. Rebellious daughter determines her parents won't be getting their hands on this next one.

 

[Mojo]

...a 48-year-old Brit, Mark Gordon, who was deported from the U.S.A. after serving a forty-year jail term...

So, (rule of) he was eight years old when sentenced?
Ok, nevermind.

Hey, this isn't the Mathematics forum, whadya expect?

The sentence was recorded as 40'0", so there was a bit of ambiguity about the units.

 

[Matthew Best]

He was sentenced to fourty hours?

 

[theprestige]

According to someone on Twitter (I know, it is not a reliable source!) she is estranged from her parents because they took custody of her other three or four kids. She's been with this guy since circa 2016 and appears to have married him. Listening to the father Napier (supposedly has 'royal connections' because he was once a page to the Queen) going on about bygones and what have you, there does seem to have been some kind of family rift, and Napier mentions he never liked Gordon. Controlling parent using the ex-con's record as a weapon to seize his daughter's kids. Rebellious daughter determines her parents won't be getting their hands on this next one.

Fascinating. Does this Twitter account wear an onion on its belt?

 

[Thermal]

Bit of a head scratcher here. An adult couple is...living somewhere? And the parents of the woman are connected enough to get a manhunt going, with no known crimes having been committed? What are the police going to do if they find the couple? Is this like a welfare check on the newborn, or a littering charge for leaving their burning car on the road, or what?

 

[theprestige]

Forty feet, surely.

 

[Matthew Best]

Forty feet, surely.

I went to a different school.

 

[Myriad]

Ah, yes, the proverbial 'aristocratic woman' of song and story.

"I call it The Aristocrats!"

 

[Vixen]

The couple have now been arrested in Brighton, where they are believed to have been camping out in the woods, on suspicion of 'child neglect'.

OMG the newborn child is missing. I can't help fearing the worst, as there was a CCTV some weeks ago of their dumping the pushchair they had been using, since the birth of the child in their new car which they then abandoned.

A couple who disappeared with their baby have been arrested on suspicion of child neglect as their infant remains missing, police have said.

Constance Marten and her partner, Mark Gordon, were located by Sussex police at Stanmer Villas in Brighton on Monday night after a member of the public reported seeing them shortly before 9.30pm.

The Metropolitan police said an urgent search operation was under way to find their baby, who is not believed to have received medical attention since birth in early January.

GUARDIAN

They won't even tell police what sex it was.

 

[catsmate]

...a 48-year-old Brit, Mark Gordon, who was deported from the U.S.A. after serving a forty-year jail term...

So, (rule of) he was eight years old when sentenced?
Ok, nevermind.

She's 14, served 20 years of 40 year sentence, deported to UK in 2010.

 

[theprestige]

Is the missing child also an aristocrat? Maybe this is all a plot to remove Putin and reinstall the Romanovs.

 

[Vixen]

Is the missing child also an aristocrat? Maybe this is all a plot to remove Putin and reinstall the Romanovs.

Constance Marten's claim to aristocracy is that her dad was once a page boy to the Queen and her grandmother had Queen Mary as a godmother (Queen Mary was the mother of Edward VIII [the abdicator] and George VI [Elizabeth II's dad]. Oh, and apparently, another relative got to play with Princess Margaret as a kid.

The tabloids love the juxtaposition of 'poor little rich girl' runs off with US rapist felon.

 

[theprestige]

Constance Marten's claim to aristocracy is that her dad was once a page boy to the Queen and her grandmother had Queen Mary as a godmother (Queen Mary was the mother of Edward VIII [the abdicator] and George VI [Elizabeth II's dad]. Oh, and apparently, another relative got to play with Princess Margaret as a kid.

The tabloids love the juxtaposition of 'poor little rich girl' runs off with US rapist felon.

Don't tell me about what the tabloids love. The tabloids don't post here.

 

[catsmate]

She's 14, served 20 years of 40 year sentence, deported to UK in 2010.

Oopsie, that would be 'he' not 'she'.

 

[catsmate]

Infant remains discovered near the arrest location.

Ah, ****.

ETA: Marten and Gordon remain in custody, detention extended. Both have been arrested for gross negligence manslaughter. Charges will need to be laid on Friday.

 

[Vixen]

Infant remains discovered near the arrest location.

Ah, ****.

ETA: Marten and Gordon remain in custody, detention extended. Both have been arrested for gross negligence manslaughter. Charges will need to be laid on Friday.

Great tragedy. Amazing turnout by police and volunteers searching the Moulscoomb Nature Reserve, apx 3.5 miles from where the couple were arrested in Stanmer. (Brighton.) It is good that the body has been found so that is closure to this case but very sad that the baby died. My feeling is that the parents were absolutely determined that the authorities were not going to take away this baby, dead or alive. Who goes camping in the woods in January/February? Totally negligent.


The woman had several other children that she put up on Facebook, which appear to have been removed from her because of her choice of partner. I guess people can get very bitter about social workers but the child is not a belonging and its welfare should have come first.

 

[catsmate]

The gender of the found body has not been established, suggestive of extensive decomposition.

 

[theprestige]

The gender of the found body has not been established, suggestive of extensive decomposition.

And also because it's hard to ask a dead baby about their preferred pronouns.

 

[Thermal]

...I had a nightmare last night that this thread would prompt dead baby jokes...

 

[Vixen]

If the pair's other children have been removed from them because of Gordon being on a sex register (would he be, as someone who served 20 years of a 40 year violent rape sentence in the USA?) but whatever the reason, there seems likely to have been a Children's Act welfare order slapped on them of removal of the baby at birth. It explains why they tried to evade the authorities as soon as Marten's pregnancy became apparent, moving from one flat to another and getting evicted for not paying rent and eventually buying a car with her trust fund money, where she either gave birth or used for escape shortly after. Police are having the placenta found in the car analysed, which should indicate the child's gender. Unfortunately, it appears the car caught fire by accident (or was it by design, thinking the authorities were on to them?) but anyway they managed to escape from the north of England down towards Harwich, hoping to flee by ferry to Europe. That plan seems to have been foiled and they ended up back in the East End of London from whence they had been evicted.

So a police notice went out, 'Have you seen this couple?' and it is at this point the pair seem to have made their way to Newhaven, West Sussex, camping in remote allotments and woods, and then on to Brighton, nearby. Being mid winter, temperatures plunged to subzero at several points during the nights. If the baby was born prematurely, this together with the cold temperature and likely lack of sufficient nutrition to sustain it, means it likely died in all probability of a natural death.

It is hard to comprehend why they did not seek medical help for the child as soon as it was apparent it was ailing and nor did they seem to make any attempt to bury it, having been found, it is reported by one witness, as having been found on a path in the woods nearby the tent the pair were living in, like vagrants. Since being arrested, it appears the pair have a pact of silence and have refused to help the police in any way.

The question is, what is wrong with the pair? Marten seems to have been a good mother in the past so has maternal feelings, as witness her smiling FaceBook pictures. I believe she met Gordon some years ago circa 2016 via a weird TB Joshua cult in Lagos Nigeria, which had a lot of British recruits. Marten seems to have had a personality change after this, giving up all of her friends and drama classes, to which she was enrolled. She likely gave up her job at Middle East News Agency Al-Jazeera [sp?] to become a full time mother to at lest three children by Gordon as of that stage. She seems to have been estranged from her wealthy family for a long time, with I believe her mother or stepmother getting custody of the children. AIUI her father Napier was key in having the kids removed as from his media statements he appears to have taken a strong dislike to Gordon, not surprisingly.

Little wonder, Marten hasn't really had anyone to turn to. I wonder whether her experience in the cult (the SCOAN) caused her to become mentally ill and the loss of her children and birth of this one some kind of post-natal depression. In addition, her dependence on Gordon, who seems to be the sole person in her life, made her vulnerable to his controlling behaviour.

Mark Gordon, from the description of his sadistic crimes, who although he was only 14 at the time, indicates to me that he has a psychopathic nature, which will have been hardened by his 20-years in a high security US jail. His anti-social attitude and determination to not let their latest child go into the care of social services is another aspect of his Borderline Personality disorder. This is a very dangerous man. Now that the pair are in separate cells, I am hoping Marten will start coming to her senses and let go of her over-dependence on this evil character.

The police have until this evening to hold them further without charge. Depending on the outcome of the preliminary autopsy, I am guessing they will be charged by tomorrow of causing the death of a child via child cruelty and neglect, failing to register a birth, preventing burial of a body and possible kidnapping charges, if the unborn child was under guardianship (ward of court).

They will both be in prison a very long time. I think longer than the usual eight years for manslaughter.

 

[catsmate]

Both charged with gross negligence manslaughter and other offences. The child was dead for several weeks.

 

[Vixen]

I guess this now goes into 'Trials and Errors'? The couple appeared at Crawley Magistrates Court today, instead of Brighton as Gordon needed a disability facility. They have been remanded in custody until an appearance at the Old Bailey on 31 March 2023.

I have looked up possible sentencing and if there is a previous conviction they could get life. It is not sure whether the photo issued of Marten is a police mugshot, which implies she has been arrested before in the past.

It seems the dead child was a baby girl whom the police or the parents named 'Victoria', found under pile of nappies and wrapping in plastic bags in a locked shed.

Bravo to the police and volunteers who managed to find her at all.

The baby of aristocrat Constance Marten is believed to be 'a girl named Victoria,' it was said after the mother and her lover appeared in court today charged with the manslaughter of their newborn.

Marten, 35, and her Mark Gordon, 48, appeared before magistrates in Crawley, where the court heard the baby was found dead in a locked shed wrapped in a plastic bag under a pile of nappies.

They spoke only to confirm their names, dates of birth and that they were of no fixed abode during a short hearing in front of a packed courtroom.

The pair have been remanded into custody charged with manslaughter, perverting the course of justice and concealing the birth of a child.

DM

Autopsy being carried out today.

There is something Charles Mansonite about the way Marten was said to be smiling in court, catching Gordon's eye and blowing kisses at each other, as she in particular is not living in reality. Seems totally unaware of the enormity of the charges.

moved as suggested

Posted By: jimbob

 

[Nessie]

I wonder why the child was not found by a medium?

 

[Steve]

I wonder why the child was not found by a medium?

No water close by?

 

[Vixen]

It was touching to see Detective Superintendent Lewes Basford of Sussex Police thanking the public and also specifically thanking the person or persons who found the body of the missing baby.

Nice to see him and his colleagues bring flowers to the makeshift memorial site. Good that police remember that they are ultimately pubic servants and remember that they work together with the community and not against it.

 

[Lplus]

I wonder why the child was not found by a medium?

No water close by?

There's nothing like the death of a newborn child to bring out the snark in some people...

 

[Vixen]

I've noticed that when the pair were arrested they were charged on suspicion of 'gross negligence manslaughter', with other lesser charges (failing to register birth and perverting the course of justice). In court yesterday, they were charged with the more serious crime of 'manslaughter' et al.

What is the difference? Gross negligence manslaughter is often to do with medical issues and involves concepts such as 'duty of care' and 'breach of duty' towards the deceased, together with a degree of 'grossness': the crime must be so bad as to be considered 'gross'. Whilst maximum sentencing is life, this tends to be for second listed offenders.

Manslaughter is roughly equivalent to the US concept of second-degree murder. Whilst causing the death of the deceased was not directly intentional, you must have behaved in such a way as to be 'reckless' (as opposed to negligent) and this is assessed by level of dangerousness of your action, (such as firing a gun in a crowed room). Whilst the recommended sentencing relies heavily on elements of culpability (such as planning) and mitigating factors; and other factors such as Domestic Violence, if relevant, Marten and Gordon are looking at at least 18 years for her and 24 years to life for him, as a second serious offender (although the proviso is that his crime in Florida, USA, was committed as a minor so may not count).

Step two Starting Points for the highest culpability can be compared

Gross negligence manslaughter - 12 years' custody
Loss of Control - 14 years' custody
Unlawful Act Manslaughter - 18 years' custody
Diminished responsibility - 24 years' custody

CPS

I presume the last is where had it not been 'diminished responsibility' it would have been first-degree murder.

Manslaughter is a serious specified offence for the purposes of sections 306 and 307 (life sentences for serious offences) of the SA 2020 (which applies to all convictions on or after 1 December 2021). It is an offence listed in Part 1 of Schedule 15 for the purposes of sections 273 and 283 of the SA 2020 (life sentence for a second listed offence) and sections 226-268 and 279- 280 of the SA 2020 and (extended sentence for certain violent or sexual offences) of the SA 2020. See Sentencing Dangerous Offenders legal guidance.

ibid

 

[junkshop]

....Manslaughter is roughly equivalent to the US concept of second-degree murder...

Manslaughter is more equivalent to US concept of manslaughter

 

[Vixen]

Manslaughter is more equivalent to US concept of manslaughter

I would disagree as the wiki article you cite states that the salient element to a US Manslaughter charge is 'gross negligence'.

However, as we have seen, the CPS (Criminal Prosecution Service for England & Wales) upgraded Marten & Gordon's charge from 'manslaughter by gross negligence' to 'manslaughter due to 'recklessness', which attracts tougher sentencing.

Second-Degree Murder
Second-degree murder is defined as an intentional killing that was not premeditated. In some states, second-degree murder also encompasses “depraved heart murder,” which is a killing caused by a reckless disregard for human life. Second-degree murder is often seen as a catch-all category for intentional and sometimes grossly reckless killings that do not fall within a state’s definition of first-degree murder.

Justia


As you know, the UK does not have a category for 'second-degree murder' so I would say what the twosome are charged with is most closely akin to the US concept of 'second-degree murder', because it the criteria specifies 'recklessness' and 'dangerousness' as opposed to 'gross negligence' (= breach of duty of care to the deceased). Of course, definitions vary between state to state and from country country but I am sure the reasoning is similar.

 

[junkshop]

I would disagree as the wiki article you cite states that the salient element to a US Manslaughter charge is 'gross negligence'.

However, as we have seen, the CPS (Criminal Prosecution Service for England & Wales) upgraded Marten & Gordon's charge from 'manslaughter by gross negligence' to 'manslaughter due to 'recklessness', which attracts tougher sentencing...

From the linked wikipedia entry:

...Involuntary manslaughter is the killing of another person without the intent to kill, but where the person's death occurs as a result of the negligent or reckless actions of the defendant...

(Highlighting mine)

The phrase 'gross negligence', and indeed the word 'gross' appear exactly zero times.

 

[Vixen]

From the linked wikipedia entry:


(Highlighting mine)

The phrase 'gross negligence', and indeed the word 'gross' appear exactly zero times.

Best to refer directly to the CPS webpage, as the law changed Dec 2021.

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/homicide-murder-and-manslaughter Homicide, Murder and Manslaughter

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/gross-negligence-manslaughter Gross Negligence Manslaughter

As you can see, 'gross negligence manslaughter' has very different criteria than 'homicide, murder and manslaughter', with the salient difference being one is caused by 'gross negligence' and the other by 'recklessness'.

The US version of Manslaughter stipulates 'gross negligence'.

In 'Second Degree Murder'

when a defendant does not intend to kill, but acts with a complete and utter reckless disregard for human life, or a “depraved heart,” this mental state is also sufficient for second-degree murder. One common example of “depraved heart murder” is where an individual shoots a gun into a crowd. He or she may not intend to kill, or to cause a particular person serious harm, but such actions demonstrate a total indifference to human life.

Justia

If you disagree, why in your opinion did the CPS upgrade the charge against the duo from 'gross negligence manslaughter' to 'manslaughter' (and may yet upgrade to murder once the further post mortem is done)?

 

[junkshop]

A quick recap of my posts so far:

...Manslaughter is roughly equivalent to the US concept of second-degree murder...

Manslaughter is more equivalent to US concept of manslaughter

I would disagree as the wiki article you cite states that the salient element to a US Manslaughter charge is 'gross negligence'.

However, as we have seen, the CPS (Criminal Prosecution Service for England & Wales) upgraded Marten & Gordon's charge from 'manslaughter by gross negligence' to 'manslaughter due to 'recklessness', which attracts tougher sentencing...

From the linked wikipedia entry:

...Involuntary manslaughter is the killing of another person without the intent to kill, but where the person's death occurs as a result of the negligent or reckless actions of the defendant...

(Highlighting mine)

The phrase 'gross negligence', and indeed the word 'gross' appear exactly zero times.

With that fresh in the memory, can you explain how the following is in any way responsive to my posts?

Best to refer directly to the CPS webpage, as the law changed Dec 2021.

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/homicide-murder-and-manslaughter Homicide, Murder and Manslaughter

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/gross-negligence-manslaughter Gross Negligence Manslaughter

As you can see, 'gross negligence manslaughter' has very different criteria than 'homicide, murder and manslaughter', with the salient difference being one is caused by 'gross negligence' and the other by 'recklessness'.

The US version of Manslaughter stipulates 'gross negligence'.

In 'Second Degree Murder'

Justia

If you disagree, why in your opinion did the CPS upgrade the charge against the duo from 'gross negligence manslaughter' to 'manslaughter' (and may yet upgrade to murder once the further post mortem is done)?

I note also that you have reiterated your claim that "The US version of Manslaughter stipulates 'gross negligence'".

I will point out, again, that the Wikipedia entry that I linked to does not contain the phrase 'gross negligence', or even the word 'gross'.

You have either not read, have mis-read, or are outright lying about the content of the link.

 

[Vixen]

A quick recap of my posts so far:






With that fresh in the memory, can you explain how the following is in any way responsive to my posts?




I note also that you have reiterated your claim that "The US version of Manslaughter stipulates 'gross negligence'".

I will point out, again, that the Wikipedia entry that I linked to does not contain the phrase 'gross negligence', or even the word 'gross'.

You have either not read, have mis-read, or are outright lying about the content of the link.

If you are going to start hurling abuse, you carry on reading wiki and I'll stick with what the statutes say. I am out.

 

[junkshop]

If you are going to start hurling abuse, you carry on reading wiki and I'll stick with what the statutes say. I am out.

Abuse? Where?

Support this heinous accusation, or withdraw it.

 

[catsmate]

It appears that the dead infant was female.