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Argentina’s Son-of-Sam Presidential Election

Solitaire

Neoclinus blanchardi
Joined
Jul 25, 2001
Messages
3,054
Argentina’s Son-of-Sam Presidential Election

Javier Milei was on his best behavior. Speaking before the Council
of the Americas at the opulent Alvear Palace Hotel in August, the
far-right congressman and sudden favorite in the Argentine presidential
election scheduled for October 22 laid out his vision for a society rooted
in private property, the invisible hand of the market, and an amorphous
notion of libertad (freedom), the latter of which he used almost
interchangeably with the former.

By his accounting, the government (or “ungovernment,” as he called it)
had robbed the people of $25 billion, while saddling future generations
of Argentines with taxes in the form of debt. Attendees at the conference,
whose sponsors included such multinationals as Amazon Web Services,
Bayer, and Chevron, sat obediently as he argued that social justice was
simply a form of “robbing from one person to give to another.”

The libertarian candidate for the coalition La Libertad Avanza (Freedom
Advances, LLA) invoked the neoclassical economist Milton Friedman,
arguing that it was the moral responsibility of business owners to earn
as much as they could. He also said that his country would become
a world power in the next 35 to 50 years by embracing the principles
of “freedom”—a statement he would reiterate weeks later when he
told The Economist that it was his aim to make Argentina “great again.”


I use to argue that "People didn't get the government they deserve,
but instead, get something worse." But what caught my eye about
this was a libertarian calling for the use of another governments
fiat currency. Nothing predicted about the future – intelligent robots,
flying cars, or space colonies — contained the idea of a pro-government
libertarian. Such a thing seems impossible, but here we are.
 
I use to argue that "People didn't get the government they deserve,
but instead, get something worse." But what caught my eye about
this was a libertarian calling for the use of another governments
fiat currency. Nothing predicted about the future – intelligent robots,
flying cars, or space colonies — contained the idea of a pro-government
libertarian. Such a thing seems impossible, but here we are.

Wow, that whole article is worth a read and very well sourced and researched - thanks for sharing that.

Kind of sounds like another country I know where it's very polarized based on age, sex, race, income, education, etc. As if we need another unstable country in the world.
 
Argentina is and has been a basket case for decades. This is just the latest in a long list of idiotic or corrupt leaders they've had.

Nice place apart from the politics, so I hear.
 
No doubt the current Argetnine goverment has messed up big time; but Milei is bad news. Demogogues always are.
 
Well, someone that dedicated to freedom is of course going to be a major help to civil rights.
The freedom to marry whoever you want, the freedom to unionize, the freedom to have an abortion etc etc.
All things I'm sure such a freedom loving person will introduce at once.
 
Maybe he'll decide that invading las Malvinas the Falklands is a good way to distract the population from all their economic problems. :rolleyes:

[imgw=640]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/6756535b730767c5.jpg[/imgw]

Rural bus stop memorial in northwest Argentina to a local kid who died in on the Argentine warship General Belgrano, sunk by the British.
 
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What will happen to the opposition leader's votes? Will her supporters back the "chainsaw plan" of libertarian lawmaker Javier Milei? Or will they cast blank ballots? Will Serio Massa be able to win them over with his pitch for a “great national agreement"?

https://www.batimes.com.ar/news/arg...ppens-to-bullrichs-votes-in-the-run-off.phtml

Just read his chainsaw plan includes his ditching the Peso and adapitng another countrie's curency. Man is incredbkly ignorant for somebody who is an economist.s
Proof that too much Ayn Rand rots the brain.
 
Just read his chainsaw plan includes his ditching the Peso and adapitng another countrie's curency. Man is incredbkly ignorant for somebody who is an economist.s
Proof that too much Ayn Rand rots the brain.

I don't know why you think dollarizing the economy is a bad idea; it has been done successfully in El Salvador and Ecuador. Given that Argentina is experiencing triple-digit inflation this year, it certainly seems like they need a change. It does mean that monetary policy is out of their control, but that may be a feature, not a bug.
 
He will have a hard time to do worse than previous presidents.

An interesting idea that he proposed, he wants to enact "male abortion rights". The right for men to reject the paternity of a child for a limited time after conception. If the woman wants to have the child she can have it on her own. It´s an intriguing idea. Why should women have the right to abort even if the man doesn´t want to, but men have no say one way or the other? I find hard to argue against it in terms of "rights", but I guess it would have very bad societal effects...
 
Question becomes whether the right of the man to have generative sex without consequence trumps the right of the child to have the support of two parents. Same question everywhere the notion comes up.
 
He will have a hard time to do worse than previous presidents.

An interesting idea that he proposed, he wants to enact "male abortion rights". The right for men to reject the paternity of a child for a limited time after conception. If the woman wants to have the child she can have it on her own. It´s an intriguing idea. Why should women have the right to abort even if the man doesn´t want to, but men have no say one way or the other? I find hard to argue against it in terms of "rights", but I guess it would have very bad societal effects...

Generally called "Choice for Men" or C4M for short. If the woman is wealthy or otherwise able to care for the kid without the help of society, then no problem, but once they go on welfare the state is going to try to claw that money back anywhere they can, and the dad is the obvious target.
 
He will have a hard time to do worse than previous presidents.

An interesting idea that he proposed, he wants to enact "male abortion rights". The right for men to reject the paternity of a child for a limited time after conception. If the woman wants to have the child she can have it on her own. It´s an intriguing idea. Why should women have the right to abort even if the man doesn´t want to, but men have no say one way or the other? I find hard to argue against it in terms of "rights", but I guess it would have very bad societal effects...
It's quite straightforward, the pregnant parent is allowed to unilaterally abort a fetus, that applies to all pregnant people regardless of sex.
 
Question becomes whether the right of the man to have generative sex without consequence trumps the right of the child to have the support of two parents. Same question everywhere the notion comes up.
There is, except in cases where the female has no reproductive organs, always a risk of conception when a male and a female have sex, contraceptives are not 100% reliable. It is up to the male if they wish to accept that risk or not and therefore be in the position of eventually becoming the parent of a child. (Of course in the case of rape or sexual assault of the male different pathways open up but I am assuming we are talking about consensual sex.)
 
The dog whisperer sounds as rational as Sidney Powell:
Javier Milei’s campaign has collapsed. Last night, Milei – looking really unwell – gave a career-ending interview that mixed megalomania and signs of mental illness. Here, he complains of loud voices distracting him – but the studio is empty. It’s over
David Adler (Twitter/X, Oct 27, 2023)
Other tweets disagree.

Javier Milei and his violent manners to demand silence | Episodes of libertarian anger in interviews and conferences (EsDeLatino, Oct 27, 2023)

Argentina, candidate Milei uncomfortable during the interview: «It’s difficult to talk to all these voices»: but the studio is empty – The video (Italy24, Oct 28, 2023)
 
He will have a hard time to do worse than previous presidents.

He's going to give it a college try - allowing everyone unfettered access to guns isn't smart. Might make the soccer more entertaining.
 
Classy. I thought some of Milei's photos looked like he was trying to achieve the Alex de Large/Trump mugshot look.
 
And at the Middle East and Ukraine thing, got it figured out I think.

Biden will ask what's this South America thing about again? Tony?

"No I prefer Antony"

Yeah sorry, Anthony. Got a lot on my mind. So again, what's going on in South America again?
 
From CNN:

Far-right outsider Javier Milei wins Argentina’s presidency

Javier Milei has won Argentina’s presidential elections in provisional results, wrenching his country to the right with a bombastic anti-establishment campaign that drew comparisons to former US President Donald Trump – all against the backdrop of one of the world’s highest inflation rates.

His rival Sergio Massa conceded the run-off vote on Sunday evening in a brief speech even before official results were announced. “Milei is the president elected for the next 4 years,” said Massa, adding that he had already called Milei to congratulate him.

Provisional results so far show Milei with over 55% of votes (13,781,154) with more than 94% of votes counted, according to data from the country’s National Electoral Chamber, which has not yet declared an official winner.​
 
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Venezuela : Populist wins, screws up economy
Poland : Populist win, screws up justice system and democracy
Turkey: Populists wins, screws up justice system, democracy and economy
Hungary: Populist win, screws up justice system, democracy
UK: Populist win, screws up economy, healthcare system
US: Populists wins, screws up economy, damages democracy and justice system
Brazil: Populist wins, screws up economy

Argentine: Let's vote in a populist, he'll shake up the system!

(win/wins depending on whether it was a political party or more a single person)
 
Venezuela : Populist wins, screws up economy
Poland : Populist win, screws up justice system and democracy
Turkey: Populists wins, screws up justice system, democracy and economy
Hungary: Populist win, screws up justice system, democracy
UK: Populist win, screws up economy, healthcare system
US: Populists wins, screws up economy, damages democracy and justice system
Brazil: Populist wins, screws up economy

Argentine: Let's vote in a populist, he'll shake up the system!

(win/wins depending on whether it was a political party or more a single person)

Those economies etc. were already quite damaged...

Whose fault is it that people like Milei and Trump get elected? Their predecessors´. Politicians who want to maintain a corrupt and ineffective status quo that is already damaging the economuy, democracy etc., people suffering those effects will elect whoever promises to shake up things. D´uh!
 
Whose fault is it that people like Milei and Trump get elected? Their predecessors´. Politicians who want to maintain a corrupt and ineffective status quo that is already damaging the economuy, democracy etc., people suffering those effects will elect whoever promises to shake up things. D´uh!

In the case of Argentine, you can't entirely blame them. Their economy has been a basket-case for decades and the choice was status quo or a shake-up.
 
Those economies etc. were already quite damaged...

Whose fault is it that people like Milei and Trump get elected? Their predecessors´. Politicians who want to maintain a corrupt and ineffective status quo that is already damaging the economuy, democracy etc., people suffering those effects will elect whoever promises to shake up things. D´uh!

In the case of Argentine, you can't entirely blame them. Their economy has been a basket-case for decades and the choice was status quo or a shake-up.

No matter how bad things are, they can always get worse.

So apparently he wants to privatize healthcare and education. No doubt a good way to cut spending, but that’s not going to be good for anyone but the rich.

Also, who is a climate change denier in 2023? That seems extremely retrograde.

ETA: I suppose the answer is a Friedman-esque libertarian.
 
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Those economies etc. were already quite damaged...

Whose fault is it that people like Milei and Trump get elected? Their predecessors´. Politicians who want to maintain a corrupt and ineffective status quo that is already damaging the economuy, democracy etc., people suffering those effects will elect whoever promises to shake up things. D´uh!

The idiots who vote for them and their far right fellow travellers like yourself.
 
Those economies etc. were already quite damaged...

Whose fault is it that people like Milei and Trump get elected? Their predecessors´. Politicians who want to maintain a corrupt and ineffective status quo that is already damaging the economuy, democracy etc., people suffering those effects will elect whoever promises to shake up things. D´uh!

Yes, and in each case the populists who were 'going to fix it all!!!' made things worse while at the same time looting what they could for themselves and their cronies at a level unseen before. You'd think the pattern would be clear.
 
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