All back to the office

[Filippo Lippi]

TLDR - is there any evidence that having workers in the office is "better" for companies?

Covid, we were all working from home. After 18 months of that we were told that there had been a 25% uplift in productivity.

After covid became less of a threat, it was "come in for one day a week to collaborate." Fair enough, but hard on the people that had really long commutes, especially the ones who had joined because we were all wfh.

Then two days a week. They made a concession for those with a big commute, the days are consecutive, allowing those happy few to pay for accommodation.

From August, we go to three days... there isn't room for the extra people in the office or in the car park, but we must be in for a minimum of three days a week.

Reason given, "some people are taking the piss." In management circles these people are known as the "dog walkers."

My strong suspicion is that rich people, like our CEO, like people in the office, because they have commercial property as part of their portfolio and this prejudices their thinking. But that's probably my prejudice.

I was directed to Peopleware by the good folk of this place, but had to stop reading it because it was depressing. All the things companies might do to make knowledge workers more productive (and happy) , my company was doing the opposite. we're already crammed into big, open-plan offices, with poor lighting and bad aircon. I'm not sure the authors considered environments and the spread of contagious diseases.

I should move companies, but I'm a mainframe programmer and jobs are getting fewer and much further apart. And there's no guarantee of a more enlightened employer...

I looked for a thread about this topic on the first two pages and couldn't find one, so created a new one

 

[Puppycow]

It's the same at my company, although you can apply for an exemption (which I have: got a note from my doctor). I still go to the office 2 days a week (used to be every work day before the pandemic).

The evidence as far as I know is mixed. Here is an article by the Bureau of Labor Statistics about it:

The rise in remote work since the pandemic and its impact on productivity

The COVID-19 pandemic brought about dramatic changes in the work environment. Although 6.5 percent of workers in the private business sector worked primarily from home in 2019, the pandemic was the start of a massive experiment in full-time remote work for most workers and firms. People often...

www.bls.gov

Looking at a more aggregate level to measure the impact of remote work on economic performance across 43 private sector industries, Fernald et al. (2024) find little relationship between labor productivity and the ability of workers in an industry to work entirely remotely, suggesting remote work neither hindered nor helped raise aggregate productivity growth.⁴

My company is going through a difficult business cycle, and they may be clutching at straws.

 

[dirtywick]

even if there was no change, it was a net benefit.

that said, i don't work in a job that's capable of being done from home so idk anything about it. i have a hard time believing no productivity was lost though. when it was work from home for the office folk during covid, and we were there on site, it was impossible to get help from them in a timely manner, emails to help desk accounts and nobody picking up their phones or calling you back when i used to be able to walk into an office and talk to a person. i know when i had an urgent hr issue, the work from home person in charge of benefits wouldn't get back to you for days at a time. which was annoying when you're having a personal emergency and i had to stress out about that kind of stuff on top of it.

my company does the partial thing now. i think the primary benefit is wfh people had more freedom and enjoyed their jobs more. and that's not nothing.

 

[Filippo Lippi]

"25% increase in productivity" was what we were told by the director of our division on an all-hands call. Now they're looking for AI to compensate (another topic). Other, substantial benefits have been withdrawn or watered down recently, I suspect that there will be a surge in "quiet quitting."

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Working in an office is better for the company renting out the office

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

TLDR - is there any evidence that having workers in the office is "better" for companies?

Covid, we were all working from home. After 18 months of that we were told that there had been a 25% uplift in productivity.

After covid became less of a threat, it was "come in for one day a week to collaborate." Fair enough, but hard on the people that had really long commutes, especially the ones who had joined because we were all wfh.

Then two days a week. They made a concession for those with a big commute, the days are consecutive, allowing those happy few to pay for accommodation.

From August, we go to three days... there isn't room for the extra people in the office or in the car park, but we must be in for a minimum of three days a week.

Reason given, "some people are taking the piss." In management circles these people are known as the "dog walkers."

My strong suspicion is that rich people, like our CEO, like people in the office, because they have commercial property as part of their portfolio and this prejudices their thinking. But that's probably my prejudice.

I was directed to Peopleware by the good folk of this place, but had to stop reading it because it was depressing. All the things companies might do to make knowledge workers more productive (and happy) , my company was doing the opposite. we're already crammed into big, open-plan offices, with poor lighting and bad aircon. I'm not sure the authors considered environments and the spread of contagious diseases.

I should move companies, but I'm a mainframe programmer and jobs are getting fewer and much further apart. And there's no guarantee of a more enlightened employer...

I looked for a thread about this topic on the first two pages and couldn't find one, so created a new one

There's also a control aspect involved in having people in the office, in that the boss class think that because they can see their underlings, they therefore control them. Plus big egos need an audience.

Personally I like working in the office, it's my mentality. But because I'm moving back home (landlord selling up, rental market is septic) and facing a longer commute, I'll soon be switching to a one day a week working from home regime, possibly two if it suits. And I have staff under me who I fully support in working from home on the regular because I trust them to do their jobs.

 

[Tony99]

Working in an office is better for the company renting out the office

Yep. This return to office (RTO) push seems primarily driven by real-estate and taxes. I work at a huge office campus and the city gives a substantial tax break if that office maintains a certain population percentage. The surrounding business also rely on some of that office population as well.
The whole "foster collaboration, in-person culture" is feel-good garbage. I understand people who want to go into the office...like the environment, too many distractions at home etc. Those people should be able to do so. I'm certainly looking for fully remote work. Yes, the 100 mile round-trip, in infuriating traffic, 4 days a week sucks...bad.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

I'm a bit wary of how the Hawthorne effect^WP might come into play.

But obviously it depends on the type of work involved. I spent a good chunk of my working life as a solo management consultant. A lot of work from home but also as part of large teams. So I have the experience from both sides measured in decades not just a couple of years.

 

[Puppycow]

"25% increase in productivity" was what we were told by the director of our division on an all-hands call. Now they're looking for AI to compensate (another topic). Other, substantial benefits have been withdrawn or watered down recently, I suspect that there will be a surge in "quiet quitting."

It's possible that the 25% increase was true initially (you said after 18 months), but wasn't sustained once people adjusted to the "new normal". Now we are in like the 5th year since 2020. I don't know, but it's maybe possible. They probably don't expect a 25% decrease in productivity if everyone comes back to the office.

 

[Filippo Lippi]

hmmm... The people I've spoken to feel more productive at home, I feel more productive at home, but we, here, know not to trust feelings.

Again my bias has me thinking, "what about the other changes we've been through recently?" We have a whole new project management methodology, the little people don't like it, we think it's a pain in the arse, and certainly a time sink... It's getting better as we become more used to it, but...

 

[zooterkin]

I have mixed feelings about it, though they're not very strong these days since I've not had to work for the last seven years. I think that many jobs can be done just as well from home as from the office, and in many cases, better, since it removes the need for time spent commuting, and can, depending on the type of job, allow people to fit the work into other things they have to do. All the jobs I've done have been productive in some way, so a manager could see what I'd done, regardless of whether they were in the same physical location or not.

Working in an office is a good way to create a company culture, and get to know your cow-orkers, and that was my experience for about half my working life. The actual office layout makes a difference though, and whether you have open plan or offices or cubicles can make a big difference to how easy it is to get work done, again depending on your job type.

I did have the option to work from home at various times, but I always went to the office, because it was always close by, and I didn't want to dedicate the space to a home office, and I, personally, found I did work better in the office. I also didn't want to hot-desk, and managed to keep a dedicated desk until I retired.

For about the second half of my career, where I worked physically was largely irrelevant, since I was in teams that were distributed around the world, with colleagues I often never even met (though working with someone remotely becomes very much easier if you have met), and even a couple of managers I never saw face-to-face.

 

[Shrinker]

I'm a business owner and after covid we settled on 2 days per week in the office for people on an in-person contract. We don't talk about it much with the employees because raising the topic raises the chatter about whether we are going to roll it back, which we definitely are not ever planning to do. Productivity feels unchanged since pre-covid, though it's very difficult to measure productivity in our line of work. My personal productivity is usually better on WFH days. What I do know though is that WFH gave us access to better staff since we built the infrastructure for WFH we could hire anyone from across the continent. We've had people from war zones, or people working from camper vans on the beach which sounds 'bad' but they have been rare talents we wouldn't otherwise have had access to and obviously it has been great for them too.

The in-person staff seem to enjoy the balance, morale is great, the fully remote staff come to the office when it suits their travel and they enjoy that. We used to have a problem with a couple of moody types or toxic attitudes and now I can make those people fully remote, and isolate their negativity from everyone else which is great for me, and actually good for them, because it better than not getting work at all. We used to also struggle with collaborative meetings but we slowly built the tools to do it.

We do have a problem with some senior people being suspicious that some staff aren't working when they should be, but I don't really care (and suspect every accusation is an admission). The staff have a to-do list and we have daily check-in meetings. Sometimes we see work gets done outside of hours, so maybe those folks are walking the dog in the afternoon, but why should I care what actual hours they work? In fact, we have one day per week which is always a WFH day (the other days rotate) and that is specifically so staff can schedule life stuff like appointments, plumbers, driving lessons etc.

We do have an expensive office empty 3 days a week, but I don't see that as a problem. Our family car is empty most of the time, but we don't think of that as a problem. When we need it we need it. We see the building management have struggled to let other offices in the building which has been good for our negotiating position on leases.

 

[Puppycow]

I'm a business owner and . . .

If only all business owners were so reasonable.

 

[dorricc0]

My experience is similar to that described so eloquently by Shrinker (thanks).

At the time of Covid, I was working for a Dutch company and we were already working remotely (and productively) with a team split between Netherlands and Scotland offices. Since Covid, we have settled on a hybrid of 2-3 days per week in the office, which seems to suit most people just fine, and many/most companies have adopted similar. Personally, I grew to hate working from home, since I live alone and missed the office socialising. For others, with families and/or long commutes, a few days a week WfH is a blessing.

Productivity is difficult to measure but seems unchanged on the face of it; if anything there is more of a focus on getting the most out of in-office days where face-to-face meetings are more effective.

But, there has been quite a change to the city, with companies downsizing and leaving large office complexes vacant (and it's hard to see any future demand for such premises now), and perhaps ~30% less people working in the city, the hospitality and retail industries have taken a hit.

 

[catsmate]

I'm a bit wary of how the Hawthorne effect^WP might come into play.

But obviously it depends on the type of work involved. I spent a good chunk of my working life as a solo management consultant. A lot of work from home but also as part of large teams. So I have the experience from both sides measured in decades not just a couple of years.

There are serious doubts that the Hawthorne Effect actually exists.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

There are serious doubts that the Hawthorne Effect actually exists.

I know but it's still an interesting meme.

 

[novaphile]

hmmm... The people I've spoken to feel more productive at home, I feel more productive at home, but we, here, know not to trust feelings.

Again my bias has me thinking, "what about the other changes we've been through recently?" We have a whole new project management methodology, the little people don't like it, we think it's a pain in the arse, and certainly a time sink... It's getting better as we become more used to it, but...

In my case, I didn't have to trust my feelings.

Every one of the many, many, many, pointless meetings I was required to 'attend', I'd mute my microphone, and continue working.
(With half an ear on the discussion).

That alone probably tripled my productivity.