Merged Alec Baldwin fatally shoots crewmember on set of movie with prop gun

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If the cost of bullets, dummy, blank or whatever, and a few guns is a make or break issue for movie budgets then cost efficiency and safety can both be attained by using cheap plastic fakes and making the actors earn their money by actually acting.
 
Crazy Chainsaw said:
She was convicted of A Loading a gun and or B failing to do a safety check, anything else is Irrelevant.
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Thermal said:
Oh for Christ's sake, no you wouldn't. Snap the rounds and for those few close up shots refill the primer dimple. This **** is just not that complicated, and if it did threaten to ruin the movie, about 30 seconds of photoshopping primers back in during editing would handle it.
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It's frustrating, because you can see the scraps of a coherent argument in there. Just good luck getting enough focus to actually make it work.

I think that what CC is trying to say here is that the production wouldn't go for a highly reliable safety check, because it would mean altering the prop, and then they'd have to buy it instead of rent it or whatever.

Which is a completely irrelevant distraction, here. We're already condemning the Rust producers for cheaping out and cutting corners on safety. Saying that they wouldn't do a cromulent safety check because it would cost them a bit more money is banal to the point of inanity. Yeah, we know they wouldn't. They could, but they wouldn't. And it's because they wouldn't that they're in court.
 
Thermal said:
Calling bull **** on this, too. My very first hit online shows them at full retail for $19.75 for 25. That's $0.79 each. And that's without even shopping around.

https://www.perfectshotllc.com/product/45-long-colt-dummy-round-with-used-brass/



Dude it's a ******* movie. They could refill the dimple holes with goddamned Play Doh and no one would know the difference.



Oh for Christ's sake, no you wouldn't. Snap the rounds and for those few close up shots refill the primer dimple. This **** is just not that complicated, and if it did threaten to ruin the movie, about 30 seconds of photoshopping primers back in during editing would handle it.
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That's because you found the Dummies from used ammunition, that don't have
Primers, way to make my point.

https://www.dummybullet.com/pistol calibers.html
 
theprestige said:
It's frustrating, because you can see the scraps of a coherent argument in there. Just good luck getting enough focus to actually make it work.

I think that what CC is trying to say here is that the production wouldn't go for a highly reliable safety check, because it would mean altering the prop, and then they'd have to buy it instead of rent it or whatever.

Which is a completely irrelevant distraction, here. We're already condemning the Rust producers for cheaping out and cutting corners on safety. Saying that they wouldn't do a cromulent safety check because it would cost them a bit more money is banal to the point of inanity. Yeah, we know they wouldn't. They could, but they wouldn't. And it's because they wouldn't that they're in court.
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The Production was so cheap they were understaffed at Props, there was a big scene being filmed that after noon, and Hannah used the 3 hour Break to catch up on the Prop work. The judge wouldn't even allow the defense to bring that up. There wasn't any time to do an Inventory, durring that 3 hours.
 
Crazy Chainsaw said:
The Production was so cheap they were understaffed at Props, there was a big scene being filmed that after noon, and Hannah used the 3 hour Break to catch up on the Prop work. The judge wouldn't even allow the defense to bring that up. There wasn't any time to do an Inventory, durring that 3 hours.
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You don't need to keep repeating that that the production was cutting corners on safety. We know already, and it's not an excuse for what happened.
 
Crazy Chainsaw said:
The Production was so cheap they were understaffed at Props, there was a big scene being filmed that after noon, and Hannah used the 3 hour Break to catch up on the Prop work. The judge wouldn't even allow the defense to bring that up. There wasn't any time to do an Inventory, durring that 3 hours.
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I could be wrong but I don’t remember the judge preventing any testimony about the previous 3 hours. Of course, she could have and should have been properly doing inventory all along.
 
CC is trying to have it both ways. On the one hand, he can't quite deny that this happened because the armorer and others were being careless. On the other hand, he really wants to pretend everyone did everything they could, and this might have been some baroque and esoteric entry in annals of rare gun mishaps.
 
theprestige said:
CC is trying to have it both ways. On the one hand, he can't quite deny that this happened because the armorer and others were being careless. On the other hand, he really wants to pretend everyone did everything they could, and this might have been some baroque and esoteric entry in annals of rare gun mishaps.
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No way to deny a death but any round that rattles has to have some form of contamination in the powder.
 
Crazy Chainsaw said:
No way to deny a death but any round that rattles has to have some form of contamination in the powder.
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The round that struck Hutchins didn't come from a rattling cartridge. That's the simplest explanation, and consistent with the fact of live rounds being on set.

Gutierrez didn't supply a badly made dummy in good faith with due diligence. She carelessly supplied a live round from the many to be found in and around her armory. Why do you struggle so, with this obvious and simple truth?
 
theprestige said:
The round that struck Hutchins didn't come from a rattling cartridge. That's the simplest explanation, and consistent with the fact of live rounds being on set.

Gutierrez didn't supply a badly made dummy in good faith with due diligence. She carelessly supplied a live round from the many to be found in and around her armory. Why do you struggle so, with this obvious and simple truth?
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Is Alec Baldwin responsible? Based on this thread I would say no, It was Gutierrez.
 
Can’t see anything recent about this; apologies if too on-topic ;)

https://apnews.com/article/1fa420a9cbf698e5fd6e33c943eea8ed

Request for new trial denied

“ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. (AP) — A New Mexico judge on Friday rejected an effort by a movie set armorer to challenge her conviction of involuntary manslaughter in the 2021 fatal shooting of a cinematographer by Alec Baldwin on the set of the Western film “Rust.”

“After hearing brief arguments during a virtual hearing, Santa Fe-based Judge Mary Marlowe Sommer said she would be staying the course and that armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed would remain in custody pending her sentencing in April.”
 
Orphia Nay said:
Can’t see anything recent about this; apologies if too on-topic ;)

https://apnews.com/article/1fa420a9cbf698e5fd6e33c943eea8ed

Request for new trial denied

“ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. (AP) — A New Mexico judge on Friday rejected an effort by a movie set armorer to challenge her conviction of involuntary manslaughter in the 2021 fatal shooting of a cinematographer by Alec Baldwin on the set of the Western film “Rust.”

“After hearing brief arguments during a virtual hearing, Santa Fe-based Judge Mary Marlowe Sommer said she would be staying the course and that armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed would remain in custody pending her sentencing in April.”
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She is issuing a written statement on monday.
 
theprestige said:
The round that struck Hutchins didn't come from a rattling cartridge. That's the simplest explanation, and consistent with the fact of live rounds being on set.

Gutierrez didn't supply a badly made dummy in good faith with due diligence. She carelessly supplied a live round from the many to be found in and around her armory. Why do you struggle so, with this obvious and simple truth?
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How do you know two non rattling rounds were segregated on the prop cart, one was live one was the round with the BBs stuck.
 
whoanellie said:
did the judge make a double secret ruling?
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The Judge Made several Questionable Rulings including on Information the Procecution shared with Seth Kenney. Seth Kenney was given GR's Cell phone data before Trial, including Attorney Client privileged data.
 
Crazy Chainsaw said:
How do you know two non rattling rounds were segregated on the prop cart, one was live one was the round with the BBs stuck.
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The alleged presence of non rattling rounds simply means that listening for rattles is an inadequate preventative measure.

Although the three previous non-intentional* discharges before the fatal shooting had already demonstrated that.

*Not accidental as they were due to lax safety.
 
Crazy Chainsaw said:
How do you know two non rattling rounds were segregated on the prop cart, one was live one was the round with the BBs stuck.
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The alleged presence of non rattling rounds simply means that listening for rattles is an inadequate preventative measure.

Although the three previous non-intentional* discharges before the fatal shooting had already demonstrated that.

*Not accidental as they were due to lax safety.

ETA.

It wasn't an unexpected tragedy

https://www.latimes.com/entertainme.../alec-baldwin-rust-camera-crew-walked-off-set

“There should have been an investigation into what happened,” a crew member said. “There were no safety meetings. There was no assurance that it wouldn’t happen again. All they wanted to do was rush, rush, rush.”
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A colleague was so alarmed by the prop gun misfires that he sent a text message to the unit production manager. “We’ve now had 3 accidental discharges. This is super unsafe,” according to a copy of the message reviewed by The Times.
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jimbob said:
The alleged presence of non rattling rounds simply means that listening for rattles is an inadequate preventative measure.

Although the three previous non-intentional* discharges before the fatal shooting had already demonstrated that.

*Not accidental as they were due to lax safety.
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False they were do to handlers being Unqualified to handle the Arms after stating they were infact Qualified. The Stunt Man informed Hannah he knew how to handle a Rifle and he lowered the hammer from half Cock to down on the firing pin.

Sarah said she knew how to load the fire Arm that Seth Kenney taught her, but she was only instructed to load a double action by Seth Kenney, and he didn't teach her proper thumb disapline even on those guns.
Remember Seth Kenney was the Gun provider and Both Sarah and Hannah were working off his fire Arms licence.
 
jimbob said:
The alleged presence of non rattling rounds simply means that listening for rattles is an inadequate preventative measure.

Although the three previous non-intentional* discharges before the fatal shooting had already demonstrated that.

*Not accidental as they were due to lax safety.

ETA.

It wasn't an unexpected tragedy

https://www.latimes.com/entertainme.../alec-baldwin-rust-camera-crew-walked-off-set
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It is clear there were people on this set Unqualified to handle firearms, Those were the stuntman with the Winchester, and Sarah with the Single action pistol.
The one who Pushed Hannah not to Report the misfires was Seth Kenney. Hannah was working on his License every negligent misfired gun goes on his record. So he has a reason to want to hide them.
 
Crazy Chainsaw said:
False they were do to handlers being Unqualified to handle the Arms after stating they were infact Qualified. The Stunt Man informed Hannah he knew how to handle a Rifle and he lowered the hammer from half Cock to down on the firing pin.

Sarah said she knew how to load the fire Arm that Seth Kenney taught her, but she was only instructed to load a double action by Seth Kenney, and he didn't teach her proper thumb disapline even on those guns.
Remember Seth Kenney was the Gun provider and Both Sarah and Hannah were working off his fire Arms licence.
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No.

The non-intentional discharges showed that the safety precautions were inadequate. Either the assessment of the staff's competence or the presence of live rounds where they shouldn't have been.
 
jimbob said:
No.

The non-intentional discharges showed that the safety precautions were inadequate. Either the assessment of the staff's competence or the presence of live rounds where they shouldn't have been.
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They were Blanks in scenes to be filmed of firing blanks.
 
Crazy Chainsaw said:
They were Blanks in scenes to be filmed of firing blanks.
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They were unintended discharges. Negligence was involved somewhere. They were near misses showing that the working conditions were "super unsafe" relative to firearms to use the words of someone who warned of this.
 
jimbob said:
They were unintended discharges. Negligence was involved somewhere. They were near misses showing that the working conditions were "super unsafe" relative to firearms to use the words of someone who warned of this.
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And a Caused By a Stunt man GR, wasn't allowed to train, Alex Baldwin's double.

The second was cause by a person working on PDQ's firearms License who had previous firearms experience, and who lied about her experience.
 
Steve said:
If the evidence and arguments used for the appeal have any resemblance to what you have presented here the appeal does not have a hope in hell.
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I’m betting that there won’t be any resemblance and the appeal will still fail.
 
Thermal said:
You forgot to actually look at the link. The top listing was for old brass at $18. Scroll down for new brass at, as I said, $19.75. And real primers dont matter for a movie. Play Doh or whatever and done.
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I looked at your link, and if primers didn't matter then they wouldn't be renting Dummies with primers in them.
 
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