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A very serious question

arthwollipot

Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
arthwollipot
Joined
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A close friend of mine, whose opinions I trust, claims that any response from the email address randi@randi.org is extremely unlikely to be from the actual James Randi. Clearly this address must receive hundreds of thousands of emails every day. How can anyone be sure that if a response comes from randi@randi.org it comes from the "real" James Randi.

This particular person is the same one who has claimed that according to Gizmodo magazine (apparenly one of the offshoots of Wired), there are some 2,200 lawsuits in process against James Randi, and they have had no response back to Wired magazine from the JREF to their requests other than what was published on the JREF website. Previously I have had a response from randi@randi.org saying that none of these lawsuits exist.
Against the comment (sourced from Wikipedia) that Randi has "never paid even one dollar or even one cent to anyone who ever sued me" he claims that legal reparations can be paid by the legal firm, not Randi himself. If Randi is not in charge of payouts from lawsuits this claim can be entirely true but misleading.

I am Arthwollipot on the JREF Forums and a great philosophical supporter of the JREF, but this particular person (whom I repeat, is a person I trust) is convinced that the JREF and James Randi is a scam and a fraud. He is too "financially elite" to respond to a random person in Australia unless they have captured his interest. And only the equally "financially elite" have the wherewithal to capture his attention. He claims that the Commentaries are written by the staff of the JREF, not by Randi himself.

Andrew Gould
saturn@rocketship.com
The only problem
With haiku is that you just
get started and then
 
I know one person who is in contact with Randi through email, phone and in person and he has shared with me the occassional email. There really is no mistaking Randi's communication style.
 
lol.

Well, OK, before I laugh, I should remember that not everyone is close to JREF staff. And I should also remember that our saying it ain't the case is not evidence.

The lawsuit thing is silly. If such suits existed, then there would be evidence for them (you have to file a suit with a court, yes?).

As for the emails, well, I've had email communication with Randi on both private and business matters, and the writing style is the same. If it wasn't Randi who composed the emails then it was either Jeff Wagg, with whom I chat almost daily, as do many folk here, Linda, Jose or an intern. And I've had email communications from Linda and several JREF interns, and the writing style is not the same.

So I guess the two big questions your friend needs to answer are:

1) what is the benefit of having someone else write Randi's emails pretending to be him

and

2) what is Randi doing all day instead? Bear in mind that writing the commentary, responding to emails, etc, is his job.

I added that last part because I know several very very busy people who get hundreds of unsolicited emails per day, and have their assistants reply as if it is from them. Once the email is replied to, any further communications from that person go straight to the person inboxes rather than the assistants'. It's a good way of filtering the nutters and timewasters. However, these people have jobs which mean they are busy getting on with stuff and simply don't have time to answer the emails. I'm not sure what else Randi does other than the things your friend is accusing him of not doing.
 
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Well, I posted the exact text of this topic to randi@randi.org (pretty much simultaneously to posting this topic), and within half an hour I received the following response:

Mr. Gould: Prepare to doubt your "close friend."

I receive some 140 to 160 e-mails a day at randi@randi.org, and every one is responded to by me, whether by a "canned" answer or individually - but always by me, personally.

No, we do not receive "hundreds of thousands of emails every day." That's ridiculous. We do receive over 600 spam messages a day, but they're taken care of by our spam filters.

There are ZERO lawsuits against the JREF or against me. We've had no requests from WIRED, either.

The "never paid one dollar" quotation is correct. Neither I nor the JREF has ever paid anyone any reparations or settlements, ever, nor have we ever agreed to any compromise in legal matters. We have, however, paid tens of thousands of dollars to lawyers who represent us, in legal fees. And we have never lost a case, either.

I personally write every word of the Commentaries, appropriately showing the quotations as such. And I personally answer each and every inquiry, signing "James Randi." No other person signs in that fashion.

We honestly represent ourselves, directly and clearly. The grubbies out there can't bear that fact, and circulate canards to try discrediting us.

Your "trusted friend" - a grubby - is full of crap.

James Randi
Click to expand...

I have replied, saying that I appreciate his response, and that his response has at least provided my friend with a seed of doubt about the things that he had assumed about the JREF. He will be checking out the JREF website - he assumed that it was blocked because http://www.jref.org/ was blocked at his workplace. I have pointed out that the real address is http://www.randi.org/ and he has said that he's going to check it. He appears to have read only the "canards" and not got any information from the source.

Hey - at least he was skeptical, right?

Oh, and the last line of Randi's response I accept as the abrasiveness that he is famous for, and neither I nor my friend take it personally.

:yahoo
 
I would just like to state that the claims your friend made are untrue from my own personal experience working at the JREF.

I'd be happy to speak with him.

As for Wired, we have a good relationship with at least some of their reporters. They've included Randi in interviews at least twice this year.

Edited to add: Reasonable people can be mistaken, especially if presented with false information.
 
Is your friend not aware that financial statements regarding the JREF are publicly available (as they have to be)?
 
arthwollipot said:
Hey - at least he was skeptical, right?
Click to expand...
What? No. No, he wasn't being skeptical at all.

He accepted a bunch of outrageous claims about Randi hook, line and sinker without even having visited Randi.org, doing any research, or asking Randi himself.

"2,200 lawsuits"
"Hundreds of thousands of E-Mails a day"
"Multi-Billion dollar corporation"

This stuff is easily verifiable; even from the comfort of your office chair.

No offense, but your good friend is no more skeptical than the furvent UFO believer who saw a weird light once and therefore accepts all extraterrestrial claims as fact.
 
And why is Randi not on any Rich Lists if he's the head of a multi-billion dollar corp?
 
Randi has replied to e-mails from me in the past and a couple of my comments have showed up in his Commentaries.
 
Agreed. I'm not sure why he never looked at it from Randi's or the JREF's point of view, but he has agreed that he should at least look at the correct site. He now understands how one-sided his information has been, so I count that as a win.
 
It would be interesting to know where your friend heard, or thought he/she heard, this information. For instance, I can assure you that Gizmodo never said anything as mind-blowingly absurd as "2,200 lawsuits," nor does a search of their member comments turn up anything.

If garbage like that is floating around there, it would be nice to go to the source to refute it. So, to your friend: what's the source? Who said the emails and commentaries are written by others? (By the way, Randi has responded to my email in the past within an hour.)
 
Gord_in_Toronto said:
Randi has replied to e-mails from me in the past and a couple of my comments have showed up in his Commentaries.
Click to expand...
Randi has replied to the three or four emails I've sent him. The responses were short and to the point, much like his Swift writing style and other emails of his I've read.

I've never visited the JREF building, but as far as I understand it, it's pretty small, and staffed by Randi, Linda, and a part time helper or two.

I think Linda is too busy to be answering Randi's emails, and I honestly can't imagine Randi allowing anyone to sign his name to anything he didn't write.

I've no evidence to back up my feelings - but there they are.


ETA: Gord, he's never published so much as a line that I've written. Maybe someday I'll say something smart, or ask a great question, or point him toward a woo website, but alas, not yet.
 
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Indeed, Randi has even replied to my humble self. Granted, a few posts were two words or less. If anyone needs to be in line for the Pith awards here, it's James Randi!
 
Heh.

When Randi had his heart attack and was hospitalized for quite a while (something like two months??? - I disremember), other people filled in for his duties while he recuperated.
 
I think there are people who visualise JREF as some huge mega-corp...
 
Gravy said:
It would be interesting to know where your friend heard, or thought he/she heard, this information. For instance, I can assure you that Gizmodo never said anything as mind-blowingly absurd as "2,200 lawsuits," nor does a search of their member comments turn up anything.

If garbage like that is floating around there, it would be nice to go to the source to refute it. So, to your friend: what's the source? Who said the emails and commentaries are written by others? (By the way, Randi has responded to my email in the past within an hour.)
Click to expand...

Yes, I agree. I wasn't immediately able to verify anything that he has said. He also says that the CSIRO and ACTEW routinely employ dowsers, and that psychics draw huge salaries from the LAPD. To which I went :eye-poppi

I'm not sure what his sources are.

Geek Goddess said:
Heh.

When Randi had his heart attack and was hospitalized for quite a while (something like two months??? - I disremember), other people filled in for his duties while he recuperated.
Click to expand...

And this is one of the things that I pointed out to him, and he accepted that. Like I said, I'm slowly winning him over.
 
Gord_in_Toronto said:
Randi has replied to e-mails from me in the past and a couple of my comments have showed up in his Commentaries.
Click to expand...

I've also gotten replies from Randi to questions I've posed. Not long responses, but to the point, and I have no reason to doubt that they were written by him.
 
Damien Evans said:
Just out of curiosity, how many people does JREF employ?
Click to expand...

Besides Randi, Jeff and Linda are full time. There are a few people that do some specific tasks, but I believe many of them are either volunteers, or work part time. Jeff, as General Manager, is the one who knows all this.
 
Damien Evans said:
Just out of curiosity, how many people does JREF employ?
Click to expand...

The employees of the JREF are as follows:

James Randi, President
Jeff Wagg, General Manager
Linda Shallenberger, Executive Director
Rich Montalvo, Media Manager
Alison Smith, General Assistant

The board is currently being restructured.
 
RemieV said:
The employees of the JREF are as follows:

James Randi, President
Jeff Wagg, General Manager
Linda Shallenberger, Executive Director
Rich Montalvo, Media Manager
Alison Smith, General Assistant

The board is currently being restructured.
Click to expand...

Cool, thanks
 
arthwollipot said:
A close friend of mine, whose opinions I trust ...

I am Arthwollipot on the JREF Forums and a great philosophical supporter of the JREF, but this particular person (whom I repeat, is a person I trust) is convinced that the JREF and James Randi is a scam and a fraud.
Click to expand...

arthwollipot said:
Agreed. I'm not sure why he never looked at it from Randi's or the JREF's point of view, but he has agreed that he should at least look at the correct site. He now understands how one-sided his information has been, so I count that as a win.
Click to expand...

arthwollipot said:
I have replied, saying that I appreciate his response, and that his response has at least provided my friend with a seed of doubt about the things that he had assumed about the JREF.

Hey - at least he was skeptical, right?
Click to expand...

He sure was; shame you weren't though (sceptical about your close friend's opinion, that is)!!!
 
Crispy Duck said:
It seems that many ill-informed people simply refer to the JREF as the "James Randi Institute". Going back to your opening post, I hope you've learned not to trust people quite so readily.
Click to expand...

My trust in my friend is not based on this. And the fact that he was wrong on this matter makes him no less my friend, and no less someone I trust.

Southwind17 said:
He sure was; shame you weren't though (sceptical about your close friend's opinion, that is)!!!
Click to expand...

I was. That's why I sought more information.
 
It's rather personal. Suffice to say that he is a member of my household, and in all respects a very reasonable person. I consider this particular matter to be an aberration for him. He blames it on James Burke's The Day The Universe Changed. :) We've only argued twice in the twenty years I've known him, and interestingly enough they were both about the JREF. The first time he claimed that Randi didn't have a million dollars. Well, as you know, that particular claim is easy to refute, and I did. Now, two and a half years later, there was this other one which was prompted by the audio cables issue. I asked him to actually read the Commentary and he did. As I stated before, he had never actually been to Randi's website - partially because the address he thought it was was blocked.

This is not a really big deal for him anyway - he doesn't have any vested interest in trying to prove that Randi's a charlatan (and I pointed out that of course Randi's a charlatan - he's said it many times himself) and he has bigger things to deal with. But I did send my original email to Randi, and he responded in such a way that my friend is satisfied that what I had been saying is true.

And let's face it. Everyone argues, even with their closest friends, sometimes. It's not a big deal, and certainly nothing worth jeopardising a valued friendship over.
 
OK - it's just that in your OP you made a particular point, which you saw fit to repeat, and highlight that you were repeating, of stressing that you trust his opinion. It seemed, therefore, that such trust was material to the OP, almost as if to say "... so there must surely be some validity in what I'm about to reveal to you." I could be misinterpreting, though. ;)
 
Yeah, that's possible. I just didn't want people to think that this was some random woo that I'd stumbled over at a party or something. Like I said, I trust this man's opinions, and I was somewhat distressed that he was so one-sided when it comes to the JREF. He isn't normally like that.
 
Perhaps words along the lines of: "... who's opinion I [tend to/usually/am normally inclined to/etc.] trust ..." might, with hindsight, have been better, the inference being that you have some doubts on this particular occassion, as opposed to him probably being right because he's clearly trustworthy. A word or two can make such a difference, don't you think?
 
RemieV said:
The employees of the JREF are as follows:

James Randi, President
Jeff Wagg, General Manager
Linda Shallenberger, Executive Director
Rich Montalvo, Media Manager
Alison Smith, General Assistant

The board is currently being restructured.
Click to expand...

One of my roomates for the Galapagos!
 
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