Slimething
Illuminator
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2006
- Messages
- 3,790
Agreed. Even a negative result would be remarkable. Great effort, Tombolian! I admire your persistence!
And a very happy birthday to you, slyjoe!
A strange request
- Thread starter Tombolian
- Start date
Agreed. Even a negative result would be remarkable. Great effort, Tombolian! I admire your persistence!
And a very happy birthday to you, slyjoe!
slyjoe
Illuminator
Thanks Slimething!
fortuneteller
Student
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2007
- Messages
- 35
I just wanted to introduce myself and give a bit of my background. I'm 39, live in California, and was raised Protestant but 'protested' the whole time. I never really bought into the brainwashing that was delivered 2 days (about 5 hours) a week, for the first 18 years of my life.
Fast-forward to last year. I attended Tam4 and met my hero, Randi, and have since been looking for a way to contribute to the skeptic community. I believe this test was my calling.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to some opinions and feedback about my ideas for the test.
More soon...and 'Hi!'
that's why we are called protest=ants, breaking free to choose free thinking
Tombolian
Scholar
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2007
- Messages
- 61
Just to close the looop
Hi anybody who happens across this.
I just wanted to close the loop on this thread, as it was left unfinished for the last couple of years.
I turned in my report complete with simple charts to the foundation twice now (the last time was immediately after TAM6, sent directly to Jeff Wagg), and have not heard a single word back from our fearless leaders. I don't want to slight them in the least as I'm sure they are very busy, and I fear that my work was ignored due to improper testing protocols, e.g. I didn't randomize the cycles, didn't account for temperature, etc...
It's all good...
And now, this thread is complete!
Hi anybody who happens across this.
I just wanted to close the loop on this thread, as it was left unfinished for the last couple of years.
I turned in my report complete with simple charts to the foundation twice now (the last time was immediately after TAM6, sent directly to Jeff Wagg), and have not heard a single word back from our fearless leaders. I don't want to slight them in the least as I'm sure they are very busy, and I fear that my work was ignored due to improper testing protocols, e.g. I didn't randomize the cycles, didn't account for temperature, etc...
It's all good...
And now, this thread is complete!
Dan O.
Banned
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2007
- Messages
- 13,594
Welcome back.
As long as you documented what you did and accurately reported the results, the testing would not be improper. There will always be ways to improve tests by running longer, using more subject, controlling for more variables, etc.
Can you give us a hint of your findings?
As long as you documented what you did and accurately reported the results, the testing would not be improper. There will always be ways to improve tests by running longer, using more subject, controlling for more variables, etc.
Can you give us a hint of your findings?
Tombolian
Scholar
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2007
- Messages
- 61
The results are in! Batmax does not perform as claimed! (Act surprised)
Better than a hint... Let me see if I can attach everything I sent in...
Yup, looks like I can. The following is the text I sent in to Jeff about 2 years ago, and then again a little more than a year ago.
Jeff Wagg and/or James Randi,
Sorry to take so long to get this back to you, (insert excuse here), but I’m happy to report that I’ve completed testing the Batmax Battery-life extender.
Before putting Batmax through any tests, I wanted to first fully understand what I was supposed to be testing. I quote comments from the front page of the website www.batmax.com;
- “Install BatMax – Get More Battery Life”
- “BatMax helps your battery to maintain its charge longer”
- “Extends the battery life”
- “Accelerates charging time”
- “Prolongs the battery life span”
- “Restores the original performance”
- “Protects the battery”
- “Saves money”
Suggested methods of testing the product can also be found on the website, the same as those that you sent me, but we decided that a better test should be devised.
To clarify how I should perform the tests, I spoke to Alain Aisenberg (CEO?) on the phone. There is a basic transcript of the half-hour phone conversation on the JREF forum message boards in the thread ‘A Strange Request’, which can be summarized to a few basic points;
- We discussed changing his suggested testing method. I didn’t want to use an ‘active’ cell phone to run the phone down due to the many variables that can affect run-down time, e.g. signal strength, etc. Rather, I wanted to use something with a more constant drain on the battery. I ultimately decided to use the ‘FM radio’ feature on a cell phone that wasn’t active on any cell phone network.
- Alain indicated that the more I used Batmax on the phone, the bigger the effect would be, and that older batteries would reflect more of an effect than newer batteries. The batteries I tested with were used in phones that were in service for at least 18 months before being retired.
- Alain said that the product works on every type of rechargeable battery, regardless of technology, and I quote “If your product is using a rechargeable battery, you are going to gain battery life.”
- Alain made it quite clear to me that I could change his test protocol to suit our needs, and that I would still see noticeable, even significant results.
Using 2 identical Nokia 6200 phones, I used the following protocol to test the Batmax product.
- Charge the phone using the AC adapter to a full charge as indicated by the cell phone’s charging indicator.
- Note and record the time-of-day at the beginning and end of the charging cycle to determine the charging time.
- Discharge the phone: Turn it on, activate the FM radio feature, tune it to 97.8 MHz (a station-less frequency in my area), and make sure the volume is set to maximum.
- Note and record the time-of-day at the end of the discharge cycle (the phone beeps three times just before it shuts itself off) to determine the discharge time.
To establish a baseline, I performed this basic test on both phones, eight times each.
Next, following the manufacturer’s instructions, I installed the Batmax product in only one of the phones, then repeated the test an additional seven times on each phone.
I’ve attached the results with graphs to this email titled “Test_Results.xls”. Please note that the spreadsheet has 2 tabs, one for each phone. In the ‘Phone A’ tab, the dashed-red line indicates the point in time that the Batmax product was installed (The test performed on 8/20/07 was the first test with the product installed).
I’ve also attached my original data sheet for additional information, if needed, titled “Test_Data.xls”.
Also attached are a few photos of the hardware I used, along with my lab assistant. The wires visible in these photos are attached directly to the battery terminals inside the phone so I could measure the voltage without disturbing the phone(s).
As I think you will clearly see, there was no effect noted whatsoever.
Some final thoughts…
- I don’t believe my efforts were intended to be a preliminary test for the prize, and that’s exactly how I treated it. Although much was said on the forum regarding methods to control certain variables, I intentionally left out certain aspects like measuring the voltage for the duration of each test, videotaping the tests, etc… while at the same time I took many members’ advice and incorporated it into my test.
- Most of the tests (60%) were performed at my office, a building that is temperature-controlled for about 14 hours per day to around 75 degrees Fahrenheit. The remainders of the tests were done at my house which ranged in temperature from about 70-90 degrees Fahrenheit. I think the results show that minor variations in temperature had no substantial effect.
- The tests performed at my house were done using a different cell phone charger. Exact same make/model, just a different AC adaptor charging from a different AC source. Again, and thanks to the phone’s auto charging-shutoff circuit, the results show no substantial effect.
That’s about it I suppose. I still have the setup and can perform additional tests if anybody can suggest a good reason to do so. I really enjoyed doing this for the foundation and only wish that I could get involved in real preliminary tests for y’all. I think it would be fun.
Please let me know if any of this needs clarification.
Skeptically yours (that doesn’t even make sense, does it?)
Better than a hint... Let me see if I can attach everything I sent in...
Yup, looks like I can. The following is the text I sent in to Jeff about 2 years ago, and then again a little more than a year ago.
Jeff Wagg and/or James Randi,
Sorry to take so long to get this back to you, (insert excuse here), but I’m happy to report that I’ve completed testing the Batmax Battery-life extender.
Before putting Batmax through any tests, I wanted to first fully understand what I was supposed to be testing. I quote comments from the front page of the website www.batmax.com;
- “Install BatMax – Get More Battery Life”
- “BatMax helps your battery to maintain its charge longer”
- “Extends the battery life”
- “Accelerates charging time”
- “Prolongs the battery life span”
- “Restores the original performance”
- “Protects the battery”
- “Saves money”
Suggested methods of testing the product can also be found on the website, the same as those that you sent me, but we decided that a better test should be devised.
To clarify how I should perform the tests, I spoke to Alain Aisenberg (CEO?) on the phone. There is a basic transcript of the half-hour phone conversation on the JREF forum message boards in the thread ‘A Strange Request’, which can be summarized to a few basic points;
- We discussed changing his suggested testing method. I didn’t want to use an ‘active’ cell phone to run the phone down due to the many variables that can affect run-down time, e.g. signal strength, etc. Rather, I wanted to use something with a more constant drain on the battery. I ultimately decided to use the ‘FM radio’ feature on a cell phone that wasn’t active on any cell phone network.
- Alain indicated that the more I used Batmax on the phone, the bigger the effect would be, and that older batteries would reflect more of an effect than newer batteries. The batteries I tested with were used in phones that were in service for at least 18 months before being retired.
- Alain said that the product works on every type of rechargeable battery, regardless of technology, and I quote “If your product is using a rechargeable battery, you are going to gain battery life.”
- Alain made it quite clear to me that I could change his test protocol to suit our needs, and that I would still see noticeable, even significant results.
Using 2 identical Nokia 6200 phones, I used the following protocol to test the Batmax product.
- Charge the phone using the AC adapter to a full charge as indicated by the cell phone’s charging indicator.
- Note and record the time-of-day at the beginning and end of the charging cycle to determine the charging time.
- Discharge the phone: Turn it on, activate the FM radio feature, tune it to 97.8 MHz (a station-less frequency in my area), and make sure the volume is set to maximum.
- Note and record the time-of-day at the end of the discharge cycle (the phone beeps three times just before it shuts itself off) to determine the discharge time.
To establish a baseline, I performed this basic test on both phones, eight times each.
Next, following the manufacturer’s instructions, I installed the Batmax product in only one of the phones, then repeated the test an additional seven times on each phone.
I’ve attached the results with graphs to this email titled “Test_Results.xls”. Please note that the spreadsheet has 2 tabs, one for each phone. In the ‘Phone A’ tab, the dashed-red line indicates the point in time that the Batmax product was installed (The test performed on 8/20/07 was the first test with the product installed).
I’ve also attached my original data sheet for additional information, if needed, titled “Test_Data.xls”.
Also attached are a few photos of the hardware I used, along with my lab assistant. The wires visible in these photos are attached directly to the battery terminals inside the phone so I could measure the voltage without disturbing the phone(s).
As I think you will clearly see, there was no effect noted whatsoever.
Some final thoughts…
- I don’t believe my efforts were intended to be a preliminary test for the prize, and that’s exactly how I treated it. Although much was said on the forum regarding methods to control certain variables, I intentionally left out certain aspects like measuring the voltage for the duration of each test, videotaping the tests, etc… while at the same time I took many members’ advice and incorporated it into my test.
- Most of the tests (60%) were performed at my office, a building that is temperature-controlled for about 14 hours per day to around 75 degrees Fahrenheit. The remainders of the tests were done at my house which ranged in temperature from about 70-90 degrees Fahrenheit. I think the results show that minor variations in temperature had no substantial effect.
- The tests performed at my house were done using a different cell phone charger. Exact same make/model, just a different AC adaptor charging from a different AC source. Again, and thanks to the phone’s auto charging-shutoff circuit, the results show no substantial effect.
That’s about it I suppose. I still have the setup and can perform additional tests if anybody can suggest a good reason to do so. I really enjoyed doing this for the foundation and only wish that I could get involved in real preliminary tests for y’all. I think it would be fun.
Please let me know if any of this needs clarification.
Skeptically yours (that doesn’t even make sense, does it?)
