• Due to ongoing issues caused by Search, it has been temporarily disabled
  • Please excuse the mess, we're moving the furniture and restructuring the forum categories

911 and the Propaganda Model

Well, mjd, if all you want to do is complain about the problem without offering or even discussing solutions, let's return to the topic of 9/11.

Where have I complained? I dont think your reading comp is up to much i'm afraid... I have illustrated a propensity in media which points to a conclusion, and applied this to 911.

For which you offer WTC7 as an example. But the details of the collapse of WTC7 are only detrimental to power if WTC7 was indeed demolished as an "inside job." In the context of the 9/11 consipracy argument, this is begging the question.

That's the wrong way round. WTC7 is a rudimentary detail in the most reported event of all time, that was censored. Under the PM, this leads us to a likely conclusion.

Your original comment was based on your interpretation of a comparison of very different wars in different centuries. It is, at best, an opinion. Honest and balanced media would report it as such, along with contrary opinions.

I dont know what wars you are referring to here.

Which, I agree, they have largely failed to do. This is a deplorable situation. It's a shame you have no solutions to offer.

This thread is not about solutions, its about the applicatin to 911.

No, even accepting your premise of MSM censorship of news does not lead to any conclusion about 9/11. Affirming the consequent fallacy:

- If 9/11 was an inside job, news of it would be censored.
- News of 9/11 was censored.
- Therefore, 9/11 was an inside job. [invalid]

That is not my formulation

- News of 9/11 was censored.
- The censoring of news of 9/11 indicates power interests being protected.
- Therefore, 9/11 was an inside job. [?]

That is my formulation.

That one's just a non sequitur. Even accepting the stated premises, your ideas about which power interests were being protected, and what they were being protected from, are still pure speculation.

Aren't big insurance companies a power interest? They were stuck with the bill. Why weren't their interests protected?

#1 You state that it is a non sequitur, and then you back it up with statements that have nothing to do with a notion of non sequiturs. That is a non sequitur. I have told you many times who the powerful interests are. These are the ones who have benefitted from 9/11.

#2 Insurance companies werent stuck with the bill. Re insurance, and re re insurance were. Their interests are insignificant compared to the major corporate political interests.

When presented a web of fanciful "what-ifs" and political theories and urged to reach a conclusion from them, I look instead to facts based on physical laws that can be relied upon. Such as, that demolition charges, in order to perform their function of breaking steel beams with intense pulses of gas pressure, must make a lot of a certain kind of noise. All the political theory in the world can't disconnect that dot.

This isnt the point for the moment. The point is the nature of media behaviour around 911, and the conclusions we can draw from this based on what we know about media behaviour. This is very clear.

Reharding the charges, I would state briefly that Jowenko, Bachmann, Schneider and Fontana are all experts who had no qualms with the level of sound at the collapse; further, there are eyewitnesses who menioned "a clap of thunder", and "a shockwave ripping through the building", followed by its collapse.

But this is not the issue of the thread; it will be discussed on the CF thread shortly.
 
Reharding the charges, I would state briefly that Jowenko, Bachmann, Schneider and Fontana are all experts who had no qualms with the level of sound at the collapse; further, there are eyewitnesses who menioned "a clap of thunder", and "a shockwave ripping through the building", followed by its collapse.

This perfectly describes the collapse.
The building started collapsing 10+ seconds before it could be seen from the ground (as seen in the video). The east penthouse disappeared into the building silently? Do you really think this could happen? I know you are ignorant to the engineering aspects of a collapse but this is ridicules.
 
Errr....

One of the most absurd things anyone has ever said to me.

Then you have had an extraordinarily easy life. (In terms of things being said to you.)

When I say, "Errrrr........", my daughter says "what do we say?" and I reply, "Excuse me."

Come on, young sprat, admit your adherence to Marxism-Leninism. Lenin wasn't embarrassed by his politics; why should you be?
 
Sorry, what is the relevance of any of this?

Before you answer, note that pedantry is the sign of desperation.

So you believe that correct understanding of the "Nuremberg laws" that is, "die Nurnberger Gesetze," have no significance?

"Nuremberg laws" = "Nuremberg trials"?? Correct information is irrelevant?
 
Then you have had an extraordinarily easy life. (In terms of things being said to you.)

When I say, "Errrrr........", my daughter says "what do we say?" and I reply, "Excuse me."

Come on, young sprat, admit your adherence to Marxism-Leninism. Lenin wasn't embarrassed by his politics; why should you be?
sorry, how do I get that laughing dog emoticon thing?
 
Errr.... One of the most absurd things anyone has ever said to me.

Come on, you saucy young rascal, please... Do you agree that your 9/11 statements based on programmatic Marxism-Leninism or not? You can insult me, attack me, I don't care... I am simply curious.

God knows, I miss it so... The Marxist-Leninists, with their banners, their certainty that they, and only they, have the True Word... Please tell me that you have that. It will return me to my youth. To my salad days. When I was green in judgement.
 
This perfectly describes the collapse.
The building started collapsing 10+ seconds before it could be seen from the ground (as seen in the video). The east penthouse disappeared into the building silently? Do you really think this could happen? I know you are ignorant to the engineering aspects of a collapse but this is ridicules.
I dont think the collapse of the penthouse would have sounded like "a clap of thunder", no. Nor do I think it would have caused a shockwave. What I didnt mention is that the witness then says "the bottom of the building gave out", and then it collapsed. Is this also the penthouse's fault?
 
Well its actually the Nuremberg Principles, but never mind.

GESETZE? DIE NURNBERGER GESETZE??? They are merely "principles"???

Those were the basic anti-semitic laws passed in 1933. Gesetze = laws, not principles. Gesetz = Law, commandment, decree, precept, strophe. (Cassell's dictionary).

You say those are "principles"?? By these "laws," people were killed, tortured, imprisoned. Goodness gracious golly, the cat is out of the bag, the frost is on the pumpkin, and the jig is up. You have revealed yourself.

And it should be written as "it's," because it is a contraction, not "its," which is the possessive.
 
I dont think the collapse of the penthouse would have sounded like "a clap of thunder", no. Nor do I think it would have caused a shockwave. What I didnt mention is that the witness then says "the bottom of the building gave out", and then it collapsed. Is this also the penthouse's fault?
Duh! The initial collapse is believed to have started between floors 7 and 13. Do you think the penthouse just melted into the building or do you suppose there may have been collapsing inside the building. Research is your friend you should try it sometime.
 
GESETZE? DIE NURNBERGER GESETZE??? They are merely "principles"???

Those were the basic anti-semitic laws passed in 1933. Gesetze = laws, not principles. Gesetz = Law, commandment, decree, precept, strophe. (Cassell's dictionary).

You say those are "principles"?? By these "laws," people were killed, tortured, imprisoned. Goodness gracious golly, the cat is out of the bag, the frost is on the pumpkin, and the jig is up. You have revealed yourself.

And it should be written as "it's," because it is a contraction, not "its," which is the possessive.
Listen- go take some basic english reading classes, and then come back.

The Nuremberg Principles were those established to try the Nazis. This is what was being mentioned.

You have difficulties with German too - Nuernberger.

Go home, learn english, and then come back to me when you have done so. Not before.

ETA- Oh, and well done on the below!
 
Duh! The initial collapse is believed to have started between floors 7 and 13. Do you think the penthouse just melted into the building or do you suppose there may have been collapsing inside the building. Research is your friend you should try it sometime.
The point, loathe though I am to repeat it to the obtuse, is that this collapse would not sound like a clap of thunder.
 
1. Your 1st para is your opinion, and has no validity in an argument, I'm afriad.

Says the man who argues that the PNAC is a blueprint for 911, based on his interpretation of the language of the document.

I work in news rooms, please explain, in detail, whom you think in news organisations is the one suppressing 911 information, and how?

2. Your 2nd para misses the point that has been made over and over and over again. Please read my posts- it will save you time. The sort of people who will work in these systems (like you, probably) are hired because they are not the sort of people to believe/find out about/report these things. Check out this instance of Andrew Marr being exposed for one example.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=FSuaGIKTaEA

Condescending and patronizing lecturing me on a world you have no experience in, and I do, won't get you far MJD. Who's doing this hiring? Are you suggesting that every journalist/editor/librarian/producer/newsreader in the MSM are hired because they are gullible fools who are believe what they are spoon fed? Have you any idea of the hiring process I went through. Would you care to imagine, or guess?

Tell me MJD what system is used to establish whether one is suitable for these "systems"? What questions are asked? What criteria is drawn up? Can you answer that?

Finally I find it hilarious that you consistently link to someone who rejects your theories, in your attempts to suggest they support you.
 
The point, loathe though I am to repeat it to the obtuse, is that this collapse would not sound like a clap of thunder.
And you know this from your vast knowledge of what? What does a structural collapse sound like exactly. I've heard one (live) how about you? I've been to a couple of CD no "clap of thunder" there.
 
Someone's angling for a banana...

I was out again today at Speakers Corner. I did it again. A crowd of ~50. 6 people knew about it; no one could believe they didnt know. I could do this all day every day.

Incidentally, I was also supported by a chap from this site- http://www.ricenpeas.com/ - used to work for the BBC and C4- he quit because he said their practices of reporting were "unethical", i.e. propagandistic


WTF did I tell you just yesterday?!! the crowd you are going to get at a speakers corner is already going to be agenda driven. Sorry your attempt to support your affirming the consequent fallacy FAILS. The desperation of truthers like you amuses me. Grasping for that last thin straw and failing so badly. Its over for your movement. 7 was a property loss six years ago so get over yourself. look at the lack of coverage you all are getting this weekend on the media.
:dl: i got your dog laugh right here.
 
Listen- go take some basic english reading classes, and then come back.

The Nuremberg Principles were those established to try the Nazis. This is what was being mentioned.

You have difficulties with German too - Nuernberger.

Go home, learn english, and then come back to me when you have done so. Not before.

ETA- Oh, and well done on the below!

With regard to your new signature, thanks, I'm pleased to be so recognized. I blush and simper. May I have a badge? Heaven only knows what happened to my "baby Lenin" badges; I bought my first outside Leningrad. Too many moves. Tender little foolish memories.

You referred to "Nuremberg laws." Which translates as "die Nurnberger Gesetze..." Which were the Nazi laws against the Jews. Nothing else. Are you never in error? Will you ever admit it?

With regard to German letters.. No, it isn't "Nuernberger." At least not in proper German. The "u" is actually "u [umlaut]," and some folks, struggling with their keyboards, make into "ue." That is not required, however. Either way is accepted, with us Anglophones and our limited keyboards. I forgive you.

Give my love to Lenin, would you? God knows I miss his statues. I note that you have not directly addressed my evil, vile accusations that you start from Marxist-Leninist principles. Would you kindly say something about that?

In Odes... niet fargess...
 
The point, loathe though I am to repeat it to the obtuse, is that this collapse would not sound like a clap of thunder.


I point this out only because of the mind-boggling level of arrogance and condescension you continually display in your insistence that other posters should learn how to read or otherwise use proper English. The word you are after here is loath, with no e on the end, which means "very reluctant or hesitant." The word loathe is a verb, as in "I loathe conspiracism and conspiracists." See here.

Your arrogance is all the more absurd considering that upthread you confused the terms "Nuremberg Principles" "and "Nuremberg Laws," which, as noted, are two completely opposite concepts.
 
Please keep this thread on topic, and civil, or it will be moved to moderated status.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: chillzero
 
Just a point on Sarbox, though it is not at all relevant- do you know the percentage of reports that are taken through to a successful prosecution? Was in the FT the other day, it's miniscule.

But this isnt what we're interested in. Interests of important power structures are things like geo political strategy, suppression of working classes, government sponsored genocide etc. Petty theft means nothing (the 3rd time ive told you know?)
Although you say that SARBOX is irrelevant, you try to explain that it isn't effective because of the lack of prosecution. SARBOX has very little to do with prosecuting "capitalists". It has to do with governance, "guaranteeing" the "rights" of investors, security of the accounting cycle, and information systems security. Not quite what you think it is.

Then you explain (at last) what you actually mean by "power structures". You don't mean advertising or the media or any such things. You mean, specifically geo-political strategy, suppression of "working" classes, and government sponsored genocide. These are very different things that what you started out discussing.

Let's see:

By "geo-political strategy", I take it you mean the increasing and troubling interference by the governments of India and China (through trade networks and preferential treatment) in the weaker and less advanced economies of Central Asia and Africa. Yes, let's see more "capitalistic propaganda" media reports about this. I agree with you.

By suppression of the "working" classes, I take it you mean the critical reports by Amnesty International of the governments of Saudi Arabia and Cuba. These corrupt "power structures" should be better exposed in the MSM. I agree with you.

I am not sure where you are going with "government sponsored genocide", but you might be talking about the repression of the religious rights of the Uighurs in China or the Islamist-sponsored terror against the people of Somalia and the Sudan. The MSM has been admittedly light on the Chinese for what they're doing to the Uighurs but the north-east portion of Africa is reported almost daily. So, I kind of agree with you.

None of these "power structures" are being threatened by your favourite whipping-boy, the "modern capitalist propaganda" machine. But none of them are otherwise beneficiaries of the same machine.
 
Originally Posted by Myriad
- News of 9/11 was censored.
- The censoring of news of 9/11 indicates power interests being protected.
- Therefore, 9/11 was an inside job. [?]

( mjd982 replies: ) That is my formulation.

I hope you're joking about this. Because:

- News of explosions prior to the Minnesota bridge collapse was censored.
- The censoring of news of explosions prior to the Minnesota bridge collapse indicates power interests being protected.
- Therefore, explosions prior to the Minnesota bridge collapse [were] an inside job.

Change "censored" to "omitted from later reports" and you arrive at the same banal "formulation".
 
Last edited:
Where have I complained? I dont think your reading comp is up to much i'm afraid... I have illustrated a propensity in media which points to a conclusion, and applied this to 911.

Back to the wisecracks about reading comprehension, eh? I'm disappointed to see that. I guess I was expecting too much.

My comprehension of what you've been talking about is that pointing out what you believe is a misdeed or an injustice implies a desire to remedy it or the conditions that led to it, and therefore is a form of complaint. If not, then it's difficult to see a point to the conversation at all. You weren't illustrating your conclusion about 9/11 being an inside job because you're happy about it and want us all to share your happiness, were you?

I dont know what wars you are referring to here.


The wars that are referred to when one speaks of war criminals "running the US" and Nuremberg laws (I understand you meant trials) in the same sentence.

That is my formulation.

#1 You state that it is a non sequitur, and then you back it up with statements that have nothing to do with a notion of non sequiturs. That is a non sequitur.


Actually, the question about insurance companies was a separate paragraph bringing up a new question. I'm sorry I didn't make that clearer.

It was not intended to back up the point that your formulation was a non sequitur. No such backing up is needed. Your formulation is a non sequitur on its face.

I have told you many times who the powerful interests are. These are the ones who have benefitted from 9/11.


Doesn't help.

- Censoring of news of 9/11 indicates power interests being protected.

- Power interests are those interests that benefitted from 9/11.

(Combining the previous statements)

- Censoring of news of 9/11 indicates those interests that benefitted from 9/11 are being protected.

- News of 9/11 was censored.

- Therefore, interests that benefitted from 9/11 are being protected.

- Therefore, 9/11 was an inside job. [nope]

And that's unquestionably accepting several layers of your premises that are in fact highly questionable. Not only that news of 9/11 actually was censored (which you have not proven, because you have not shown that censorship in the US is the only plausible reason the people in the UK that you point to might be ignorant of it, nor provided any direct evidence of such censorship as applied to 9/11), but also that the reason for any such censorship can only be protecting powerful interests.

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
Says the man who argues that the PNAC is a blueprint for 911, based on his interpretation of the language of the document.

I work in news rooms, please explain, in detail, whom you think in news organisations is the one suppressing 911 information, and how?



Condescending and patronizing lecturing me on a world you have no experience in, and I do, won't get you far MJD. Who's doing this hiring? Are you suggesting that every journalist/editor/librarian/producer/newsreader in the MSM are hired because they are gullible fools who are believe what they are spoon fed? Have you any idea of the hiring process I went through. Would you care to imagine, or guess?

Tell me MJD what system is used to establish whether one is suitable for these "systems"? What questions are asked? What criteria is drawn up? Can you answer that?

Finally I find it hilarious that you consistently link to someone who rejects your theories, in your attempts to suggest they support you.
sorry, just a quickie- 8den, as a former esteemed employee of the MSM news service, will u please tell everyone here everything you know about Diego Garcia.

NO PEEKING!!!
 
Back to the wisecracks about reading comprehension, eh? I'm disappointed to see that. I guess I was expecting too much.

My comprehension of what you've been talking about is that pointing out what you believe is a misdeed or an injustice implies a desire to remedy it or the conditions that led to it, and therefore is a form of complaint. If not, then it's difficult to see a point to the conversation at all. You weren't illustrating your conclusion about 9/11 being an inside job because you're happy about it and want us all to share your happiness, were you?




The wars that are referred to when one speaks of war criminals "running the US" and Nuremberg laws (I understand you meant trials) in the same sentence.




Actually, the question about insurance companies was a separate paragraph bringing up a new question. I'm sorry I didn't make that clearer.

It was not intended to back up the point that your formulation was a non sequitur. No such backing up is needed. Your formulation is a non sequitur on its face.




Doesn't help.

- Censoring of news of 9/11 indicates power interests being protected.

- Power interests are those interests that benefitted from 9/11.

(Combining the previous statements)

- Censoring of news of 9/11 indicates those interests that benefitted from 9/11 are being protected.

- News of 9/11 was censored.

- Therefore, interests that benefitted from 9/11 are being protected.

- Therefore, 9/11 was an inside job. [nope]

And that's unquestionably accepting several layers of your premises that are in fact highly questionable. Not only that news of 9/11 actually was censored (which you have not proven, because you have not shown that censorship in the US is the only plausible reason the people in the UK that you point to might be ignorant of it, nor provided any direct evidence of such censorship as applied to 9/11), but also that the reason for any such censorship can only be protecting powerful interests.

Respectfully,
Myriad
Lets be more accurate with the deductive reasoning.

1. Censorship of rudimentary details in MSM coverage correlates to the protection of powerful interests
2. Rudimentary details were censored in 911 MSM coverage
3. Therefore the censorship of rudimentary details in the 911 MSM coverage indicates the protection of powerful interests regarding these details.

We'll leave it there as I must go to bed, but this is how the deductive sequence should look.
 
Marx, Lenin and Stalin walked into a bar...

I will repeat: Mjd's stated views on propaganda (in Russian, a perfectly respectable term, by the way -- simply indicating political education), and his methods, are quite in the style of Marxism-Leninism. You young'uns out there may not understand the point and why I am making a fuss. But fundamentally, this means that it is based on deceit, verbal aggression, censorship (!), and the like. Anything goes -- the end not only justifies the means, it mandates them.

Caveat lector.

(Oh, gosh darn it. No, I don't mean Hannibal! I mean "let the reader beware.")

Where is Noam Chomsky when he is needed? Or even Nim Chimpsky -- his avatar.
 
How is WTC7's collapse a rudimentary detail of 9/11?
It is if you first believe the "truth" movements propaganda. Other than that it's a tiny piece of a huge event that is of no consequence.

The phrase "pull it" is a perfect example. Up until the "truthers" made it one it had no explosive demolition meaning. Now it's the only meaning it has to their followers.
 
He stole from his shareholders. A small potatoes investment firm--a bunch of nobodies--caught him.
That's correct. The CBC had a piece on those who began the initial investigation into Black's spending. I can't recall which program it was; I think it was on the program the fifth estate but it might have been a regular CBC news report.
 
That's correct. The CBC had a piece on those who began the initial investigation into Black's spending. I can't recall which program it was; I think it was on the program the fifth estate but it might have been a regular CBC news report.
Thanks for the supporting remarks, Corsair. I think I caught it first in the Globe and Mail's Report on Business but it could have been in any number of "corporate propaganda machine" sources.

Mind you, Corsair, mjd1982 has already announced that it's irrelevant because it didn't result in the end of capitalism. :boggled:
 
It is if you first believe the "truth" movements propaganda. Other than that it's a tiny piece of a huge event that is of no consequence.

The phrase "pull it" is a perfect example. Up until the "truthers" made it one it had no explosive demolition meaning. Now it's the only meaning it has to their followers.
You fellas.... too precious, too damn precious.

Listen- I know you guys feel that the collapse of 7 wasnt worth much coverage, since th MSM hasnt given it such (look up the term "manufacturing consent", please oh please look this up!"

But as has been said again and again and again and again and again and again!!! on this thread, what you think matters not one jot. Not a jot! Nothing. Cos the average person disagrees with you in their droves! I know this because i talk to crowds about this. I have done such today in Parliamant Square. You havent. This is why you are a disconnected fringe movement, indirectly complicit in the murderous, never ending War on Terror.

The ignorance of your ilk has been a constant in societies over the years; it's just a shame that it is one area where Man has not been able to progress.
 
Thanks for the supporting remarks, Corsair. I think I caught it first in the Globe and Mail's Report on Business but it could have been in any number of "corporate propaganda machine" sources.

Mind you, Corsair, mjd1982 has already announced that it's irrelevant because it didn't result in the end of capitalism. :boggled:
Sorry, what was that about ignorance? Spoke too soon..,
 
You fellas.... too precious, too damn precious.

Listen- I know you guys feel that the collapse of 7 wasnt worth much coverage, since th MSM hasnt given it such (look up the term "manufacturing consent", please oh please look this up!"

But as has been said again and again and again and again and again and again!!! on this thread, what you think matters not one jot. Not a jot! Nothing. Cos the average person disagrees with you in their droves! I know this because i talk to crowds about this. I have done such today in Parliamant Square. You havent. This is why you are a disconnected fringe movement, indirectly complicit in the murderous, never ending War on Terror.

The ignorance of your ilk has been a constant in societies over the years; it's just a shame that it is one area where Man has not been able to progress.

And we are supposed to take your word for this? Why, exactly?

I love the image of droves of average people wandering to and fro, agreeing with you. Like a flock of sheep, seeking out whom they may devour.

Did Woman progress? Answer yes or no. (Just kidding. No need to answer.)

Glad to join the ilk of the precious. Yes, precious.
 
You fellas.... too precious, too damn precious.

Listen- I know you guys feel that the collapse of 7 wasnt worth much coverage, since th MSM hasnt given it such (look up the term "manufacturing consent", please oh please look this up!"

But as has been said again and again and again and again and again and again!!! on this thread, what you think matters not one jot. Not a jot! Nothing. Cos the average person disagrees with you in their droves! I know this because i talk to crowds about this. I have done such today in Parliamant Square. You havent. This is why you are a disconnected fringe movement, indirectly complicit in the murderous, never ending War on Terror.

The ignorance of your ilk has been a constant in societies over the years; it's just a shame that it is one area where Man has not been able to progress.

Really?

The last anti war demo I went on I didn't see any of your ilk there, where were they sunbeam? Maybe they were too busy listening to you ranting and raving at speakers corner. Strange that sunbeam isn't it you can go and execise your democratic right to accuse people of mass murder on the streets of London and nothing happens.

Wow how opressed you are, how censored , poor little victim, all repressed by the nasty Gov and the mass media. Em no, ignored more like .

By the way if you are so censored and so repressed how come 120 million Americans support you?
 
And we are supposed to take your word for this? Why, exactly?

I love the image of droves of average people wandering to and fro, agreeing with you. Like a flock of sheep, seeking out whom they may devour.

Did Woman progress? Answer yes or no. (Just kidding. No need to answer.)

Glad to join the ilk of the precious. Yes, precious.
All I can picture is people trying to get away from him. [dad mode] don't look kids just keep walking[end].
 
Just to show you that I care, here's a reading/watching list for you:

1. "Manufacturing Consent". Documentary on Chomsky's formulation on the capitalist propaganda system.

http://www.freedocumentaries.org/film.php?id=138

2. "Public Opinion". 1921 tome by legendary political columnist Walter Lippmann stating the necessity of "the manufacture of consent" for plying the public to the rulers will, and how this functions through the MSM.

http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext04/pbpnn10.txt

3. "Propaganda", by Eddie Bernays, the formulator of the political (and business) PR industry (and coiner of the term). Again, written in 1928, illustrating the need for leaders to "serve by leading, not lead by serving"- the need to alienate public opinion from public policy through a captalistic propaganda system.

http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/bernprop.html

4. Chomsky v Andrew Marr. The then BBC political editor attempts to grill Chomsky on the Propaganda Model, but fails in a very bad way.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=FSuaGIKTaEA

5. "Century of Self" a documentary tying this all in nicely.

http://www.freedocumentaries.org/film.php?id=140

6. Oh, and let's not forget to bring this round to 911.

http://www.911blogger.com/node/10887

This will impart a lot of info to people who need it a lot. Read, watch, and wake up!
 
Just to show you that I care, here's a reading/watching list for you:

1. "Manufacturing Consent". Documentary on Chomsky's formulation on the capitalist propaganda system.

http://www.freedocumentaries.org/film.php?id=138

2. "Public Opinion". 1921 tome by legendary political columnist Walter Lippmann stating the necessity of "the manufacture of consent" for plying the public to the rulers will, and how this functions through the MSM.

http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext04/pbpnn10.txt

3. "Propaganda", by Eddie Bernays, the formulator of the political (and business) PR industry (and coiner of the term). Again, written in 1928, illustrating the need for leaders to "serve by leading, not lead by serving"- the need to alienate public opinion from public policy through a captalistic propaganda system.

http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/bernprop.html

4. Chomsky v Andrew Marr. The then BBC political editor attempts to grill Chomsky on the Propaganda Model, but fails in a very bad way.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=FSuaGIKTaEA

5. "Century of Self" a documentary tying this all in nicely.

http://www.freedocumentaries.org/film.php?id=140

6. Oh, and let's not forget to bring this round to 911.

http://www.911blogger.com/node/10887

This will impart a lot of info to people who need it a lot. Read, watch, and wake up!
And the "truthers" use this propaganda on you and the rest of their flock. Sad they/you can't see through it.
 
mjd1982 and critical failure

But as has been said again and again and again and again and again and again!!! on this thread, what you think matters not one jot. Not a jot! Nothing. Cos the average person disagrees with you in their droves! I know this because i talk to crowds about this.

You fail.
You fail because there is only a handful protesting in Manhattan as we speak. You fail because there are 6, thats right SIX protesting in Seattle as we speak. You fail because they cannot even fill a movie house in Norway with 200 people for a preview of one of the most recognized and foremost 911 conspiracy videos. You fail because you constantly poll from protest speaking groups hanging out in town squares. You fail because only a fringe handful of architects or engineers that number less than five on this entire blue planet support a conspiracy. You fail because you lack a single peer reviewed document. You fail because the only exposure fantasist's get in any broadcast media is for ridicule. You fail because you make bold sweeping assertions based only on your fantasist delusions not in fact. You fail because you are a naive 20 something year old who lacks the life experience to make critical judgments. You simply don't know, And you don't know that you don't know.
 
Lets be more accurate with the deductive reasoning.

1. Censorship of rudimentary details in MSM coverage correlates to the protection of powerful interests
2. Rudimentary details were censored in 911 MSM coverage
3. Therefore the censorship of rudimentary details in the 911 MSM coverage indicates the protection of powerful interests regarding these details.

We'll leave it there as I must go to bed, but this is how the deductive sequence should look.


By using the term "correlates" you appear to have greatly weakened your first premise. Correlation does not imply causality in either direction, so you are now no longer saying that the censorship results in the protection of powerful interests, nor that protection of powerful interests causes the censorship. Only that they correlate; where one is observed, the other tends to be more frequently observed. That could be accounted for by, for instance, both phenomena increasing in frequency under more authoritarian governments. Perhaps that's not what you mean to say.

(If if is what you want to say, then statement 3 as stated does not follow. A more accurate statement 3 would be: "Therefore it is statistically more likely that the protection of powerful interests is also occurring." Nothing in your premises as stated supports the conclusion that the details being censored are what the powerful interests are being protected from.)

But while you think about whether that was what you meant to say, I'm more interested in the answer you gave when I asked you to define the "powerful interests" in question. You answered that the powerful interests were the ones who benefitted from the events of 9/11.

Is this association between being a powerful interest, and benefitting from the events, a conclusion based on evidence of the events of 9/11, or is it an a priori assumption? I ask because I've mentioned at least one interest, the insurance industry, that clearly resembles a powerful interest in all outward aspects. It's a large industry, dominated by large companies that control vast fortunes, it appears influential in setting policy, it has close ties with law enforcement, and so forth. You dismiss that claim, calling the insurance companies insignificant. If your evidence for calling them insignificant is that they did not benefit from 9/11, then it would appear that we're dealing with an a priori assumption that "benefitted (and only benefitted) implies powerful."

The problem is, such an a prior assumption will always lead to conspiracy-minded thinking, whether a conspiracy exists or not in any particular case.

Here's the Royal Road to conspiracist thinking:

1. Something significant happens.
2. Some people benefit.
3. Those who benefit are powerful interests.
4. The powerful interests caused the event.
5. The powerful interests act to prevent anyone finding out that they caused the event.

Since #2 is always true, it's important to be skeptical about #3. Otherwise you will constantly be leaping to #4 and you will start seeing conspiracies everywhere, causing hurricanes and school shootings and everything else that happens. Some powerful interests do benefit from some events. But cases when this happens have to be evaluated in the proper perspective.

As listed above, #3 is poorly stated in a way that invites misinterpretation and equivocation. It can be taken to imply that all who benefit are powerful interests, but that is never true. It can be taken to imply that all powerful interests benefit, but that is never true.

It is much clearer and more accurate to say:

3. Some powerful interests are among those who benefit.

I will point out:

- There are lots of powerful interests. Therefore, some powerful interests are likely to benefit from any given significant event.

- Likewise, some powerful interests are likely to suffer from any given significant event. You cannot ignore these, or assume a priori that if they suffered they must not be significant.

- Some interests that are not powerful are likely to benefit from any given significant event.

You cannot assume a priori that anyone who benefits must be powerful. That is one of the most catastrophic forms of careless thinking in human history, and it's driven by envy. (Some people benefitted from the Black Plague. Some of the people around during the Plague were Jews, so naturally enough, some of those who benefitted were Jews. Because of this, mobs concluded that Jews must be powerful interests [and thus, because they had no visible power, must be engaged in conspiracy, witchcraft, etc.] and had caused the Plague. From this sloppy thinking, tragedy resulted.)

9/11 did great harm to many interersts that I would call powerful. Whole industry sectors declined. Vast fortunes were lost when markets fell. Some of the world's largest corporations and banks had their operations disrupted when their buildings throughout the financial center were rendered unusable for months or longer. Meanwhile, six years later, the so-called benefits are looking dubious as the "Neocons" continue losing political influence and the Bush cabinet is all but gone.

The powerful interests that suffered instead of benefitting belie the notion of "the powerful interests are the ones who benefitted." You can claim that those who suffered weren't really powerful, or didn't really suffer, but that just makes all distinctions between "powerful" and otherwise, and/or between "benefit" and otherwise, meaninglessly circular. The truth is that powerful interests oppose one another. Otherwise the Military-Industrial Complex would have long ago made the Agro-Industrial Complex stop pushing fattening foods on Americans, so that trillions of what's now going to Medicare could help fund wars instead.

You can claim that the powerful interests who benefitted acted successfully against the powerful interests who suffered, but why would the powerful interests who suffered do so in silence? Even if they were initially fooled into thinking terrorists did it, would not the evidence amassed by the Truth movement have opened their eyes? Or does some kind of secret chivalric code forbid any powerful interest from publically tattling on any other, so that they conduct a secret war against each other?

Or maybe, sometimes people (and powerful interests) just happen to benefit from events that they did not cause?

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
By using the term "correlates" you appear to have greatly weakened your first premise. Correlation does not imply causality in either direction, so you are now no longer saying that the censorship results in the protection of powerful interests, nor that protection of powerful interests causes the censorship. Only that they correlate; where one is observed, the other tends to be more frequently observed. That could be accounted for by, for instance, both phenomena increasing in frequency under more authoritarian governments. Perhaps that's not what you mean to say.

(If if is what you want to say, then statement 3 as stated does not follow. A more accurate statement 3 would be: "Therefore it is statistically more likely that the protection of powerful interests is also occurring." Nothing in your premises as stated supports the conclusion that the details being censored are what the powerful interests are being protected from.)

But while you think about whether that was what you meant to say, I'm more interested in the answer you gave when I asked you to define the "powerful interests" in question. You answered that the powerful interests were the ones who benefitted from the events of 9/11.

Is this association between being a powerful interest, and benefitting from the events, a conclusion based on evidence of the events of 9/11, or is it an a priori assumption? I ask because I've mentioned at least one interest, the insurance industry, that clearly resembles a powerful interest in all outward aspects. It's a large industry, dominated by large companies that control vast fortunes, it appears influential in setting policy, it has close ties with law enforcement, and so forth. You dismiss that claim, calling the insurance companies insignificant. If your evidence for calling them insignificant is that they did not benefit from 9/11, then it would appear that we're dealing with an a priori assumption that "benefitted (and only benefitted) implies powerful."

The problem is, such an a prior assumption will always lead to conspiracy-minded thinking, whether a conspiracy exists or not in any particular case.

Here's the Royal Road to conspiracist thinking:

1. Something significant happens.
2. Some people benefit.
3. Those who benefit are powerful interests.
4. The powerful interests caused the event.
5. The powerful interests act to prevent anyone finding out that they caused the event.

Since #2 is always true, it's important to be skeptical about #3. Otherwise you will constantly be leaping to #4 and you will start seeing conspiracies everywhere, causing hurricanes and school shootings and everything else that happens. Some powerful interests do benefit from some events. But cases when this happens have to be evaluated in the proper perspective.

As listed above, #3 is poorly stated in a way that invites misinterpretation and equivocation. It can be taken to imply that all who benefit are powerful interests, but that is never true. It can be taken to imply that all powerful interests benefit, but that is never true.

It is much clearer and more accurate to say:

3. Some powerful interests are among those who benefit.

I will point out:

- There are lots of powerful interests. Therefore, some powerful interests are likely to benefit from any given significant event.

- Likewise, some powerful interests are likely to suffer from any given significant event. You cannot ignore these, or assume a priori that if they suffered they must not be significant.

- Some interests that are not powerful are likely to benefit from any given significant event.

You cannot assume a priori that anyone who benefits must be powerful. That is one of the most catastrophic forms of careless thinking in human history, and it's driven by envy. (Some people benefitted from the Black Plague. Some of the people around during the Plague were Jews, so naturally enough, some of those who benefitted were Jews. Because of this, mobs concluded that Jews must be powerful interests [and thus, because they had no visible power, must be engaged in conspiracy, witchcraft, etc.] and had caused the Plague. From this sloppy thinking, tragedy resulted.)

9/11 did great harm to many interersts that I would call powerful. Whole industry sectors declined. Vast fortunes were lost when markets fell. Some of the world's largest corporations and banks had their operations disrupted when their buildings throughout the financial center were rendered unusable for months or longer. Meanwhile, six years later, the so-called benefits are looking dubious as the "Neocons" continue losing political influence and the Bush cabinet is all but gone.

The powerful interests that suffered instead of benefitting belie the notion of "the powerful interests are the ones who benefitted." You can claim that those who suffered weren't really powerful, or didn't really suffer, but that just makes all distinctions between "powerful" and otherwise, and/or between "benefit" and otherwise, meaninglessly circular. The truth is that powerful interests oppose one another. Otherwise the Military-Industrial Complex would have long ago made the Agro-Industrial Complex stop pushing fattening foods on Americans, so that trillions of what's now going to Medicare could help fund wars instead.

You can claim that the powerful interests who benefitted acted successfully against the powerful interests who suffered, but why would the powerful interests who suffered do so in silence? Even if they were initially fooled into thinking terrorists did it, would not the evidence amassed by the Truth movement have opened their eyes? Or does some kind of secret chivalric code forbid any powerful interest from publically tattling on any other, so that they conduct a secret war against each other?

Or maybe, sometimes people (and powerful interests) just happen to benefit from events that they did not cause?

Respectfully,
Myriad
2 problems here:

1. A strong correlation between 2 things, by definition, suggest causality. There is, of course, the caveat of datamining, and coincidences, but when the correlation is supported by evident facts, some of whih are listed in my OP, then this makes this possibility unlikely.

2. Firstly, it wasnt the insurance companies taht paid out, as I said before. It was the re, and re re insurance companies. These are not the ruling power strctures. The corporate elites, the massive corporations, have benefitted from 9/11, as have the political elites. That some re re insurance companies, not even all of which are American, have had to pay out, is insignificant.

The main power structures have benefitted, as have the US government. Mass censorship of rudimnentary detail suggests that they are being protected by such censorships.
 
You fail.
You fail because there is only a handful protesting in Manhattan as we speak. You fail because there are 6, thats right SIX protesting in Seattle as we speak. You fail because they cannot even fill a movie house in Norway with 200 people for a preview of one of the most recognized and foremost 911 conspiracy videos. You fail because you constantly poll from protest speaking groups hanging out in town squares. You fail because only a fringe handful of architects or engineers that number less than five on this entire blue planet support a conspiracy. You fail because you lack a single peer reviewed document. You fail because the only exposure fantasist's get in any broadcast media is for ridicule. You fail because you make bold sweeping assertions based only on your fantasist delusions not in fact. You fail because you are a naive 20 something year old who lacks the life experience to make critical judgments. You simply don't know, And you don't know that you don't know.
I am supported by the polls. You are not. People on the street in Seattle means nothing, compared to the polls. They support me, they dont you.
 
Back
Top Bottom