• You may find search is unavailable for a little while. Trying to fix a problem.

[Merged] $25,000 Spent on programes that made things worse./Woke kindergarten

This is a bit off topic but a few years back the CEO's of Facebook and Microsoft and maybe Google I think bought a ton of computers for primary schools with the expectation that they would move to that from worksheets. I hated that because they rewarded the kid more for screwing off than doing the work and since it was on computer it was very hard to help them with their homework. I don't think the kids retained very much and as a result, I believe my daughter suffered. I did do a bunch of programs with her to get her caught up but she didn't keep it up. Too easy to wander off and go play games.
 
Roger Ramjets said:
Meanwhile the planet is going to hell as we continue to trash it and what is everybody doing to stop it? Nothing. We're all so worried about 'more important' things like 'woke' kindergartens that the really important stuff is ignored. But that's humans for you. We think we are so smart...
Click to expand...

We can multi-task.

Anyways

Concerned teacher Tiger Craven-Neeley has been (temporarily?) excommunicated from the cult.
 
theprestige said:
The person advocating this position has literally made Woke their brand name.
Click to expand...


And they are a literal cliche, which is one of the issues I have with the whole Woke project, they want people to become their stereotypes.
 
Stout said:
We can multi-task.
Click to expand...
Problem with the word 'can' is that if nobody actually does it then we effectively can't.

I bet the people getting their knickers in a twist about 'wokeness' are also avoiding doing anything to halt global warming, because preventing the planet from turning into an ecological hellhole isn't a priority for them. Many of them would actually help the World burn just to piss off 'woke' liberals.
 
Roger Ramjets said:
Problem with the word 'can' is that if nobody actually does it then we effectively can't.

I bet the people getting their knickers in a twist about 'wokeness' are also avoiding doing anything to halt global warming, because preventing the planet from turning into an ecological hellhole isn't a priority for them. Many of them would actually help the World burn just to piss off 'woke' liberals.
Click to expand...

I can. Look, see, I'm doing it right now. I just posted a tough hard hitting question on the Global Warming thread and now I'm here to announce that it's possible to bee to woke, even for San Fransisco.

California school terminates contract with controversial 'Woke Kindergarten' program

Now back to saving the planet.
 
Roger Ramjets said:
Problem with the word 'can' is that if nobody actually does it then we effectively can't.

I bet the people getting their knickers in a twist about 'wokeness' are also avoiding doing anything to halt global warming, because preventing the planet from turning into an ecological hellhole isn't a priority for them. Many of them would actually help the World burn just to piss off 'woke' liberals.
Click to expand...

This thread isn't about climate change. It also isn't about people who don't do anything about climate change. It's not even about 'woke', the right-wing boogeyman that isn't real and never happens and doesn't mean anything.

This thread is about Woke: the very real progressive ideology and epistemology, that is ahistorical, anti-science, an extremely bigoted. It's about how progressives don't disavow this ideology, but wear it proudly on their sleeve. It's about how some progressives package it as a grift, and sell it to other progressives who are too ideologically blinded to understand the mistakes they're making. It's about how these ideologically-blinded progressives are in our government, responsible for our childrens' education, spending our money to promote bankrupt and anti-social paradigms.

Stop trying to change the subject.
 
theprestige said:
This thread isn't about climate change. It also isn't about people who don't do anything about climate change. It's not even about 'woke', the right-wing boogeyman that isn't real and never happens and doesn't mean anything.

This thread is about Woke: the very real progressive ideology and epistemology, that is ahistorical, anti-science, an extremely bigoted. It's about how progressives don't disavow this ideology, but wear it proudly on their sleeve. It's about how some progressives package it as a grift, and sell it to other progressives who are too ideologically blinded to understand the mistakes they're making. It's about how these ideologically-blinded progressives are in our government, responsible for our childrens' education, spending our money to promote bankrupt and anti-social paradigms.

Stop trying to change the subject.
Click to expand...

I don't think there is anything you can do as a parent except pull your kids out of government schools and homeschool them.

The benefit/cost calculus just isn't there for trying to change the system vs just educating your own kids.

Yesterday we had a meeting with the Dean, Associate Dean, and some faculty at the University's Engineering program. Our son was admitted to the University in what would have been his 7th grade year. He's in his third semester now getting straight A's and we're mapping out the strategy for finishing out his program at such a young age. It looks like he will graduate college before his cohorts graduate high school. He's not even high school age yet.

That was only possible because we homeschooled him.

Although we homeschooled, we follow the local schools closely - a lot more so than parents that actually warehouse their kids in those abysmal places.

They have a DEI committee that has spent two years now going through every class, every reading, every student activity, and every sport to make sure the woke agenda permeates every hour of school. DEI is front and center in their strategic plan. But graduating kids that can do math or write well - nope.

There is nothing effective we can do against the billions of dollars and all the government, media, and institutional horsepower behind it. Whereas every hour we have spent with our kids has produced irreplaceable value.

There is a wholesale flight from the government schools here. The local K-8 has gone from over 120 to around 30 now. They say it is more, but we sat outside the school on the day of the official count and there were 33. Three schools in town closed last year and one of them is now a homeschool administrative building. Homeschool is exploding.

I think you just have to let them win the Darwin Award. Let them go extinct.
 
Brainster said:
Some of the "Woke Wonderings" at the website:

.





I wonder... if there's any educational value to teaching these sorts of complex concepts to children who can't read and write? I get that it allows radical teachers to talk about all sorts of stuff that interests them, but how are you going to engage second-graders with arguments about the Supreme Court and Israel?
Click to expand...

Well, when you've got six people sitting on the bench of the highest court in the land who are giving every indication that they would be ok with the verdicts in the White Rose trial, then your first quote is a legitimate question to ask.
 
AlaskaBushPilot said:
I don't think there is anything you can do as a parent except pull your kids out of government schools and homeschool them.

The benefit/cost calculus just isn't there for trying to change the system vs just educating your own kids.

Yesterday we had a meeting with the Dean, Associate Dean, and some faculty at the University's Engineering program. Our son was admitted to the University in what would have been his 7th grade year. He's in his third semester now getting straight A's and we're mapping out the strategy for finishing out his program at such a young age. It looks like he will graduate college before his cohorts graduate high school. He's not even high school age yet.

That was only possible because we homeschooled him.

Although we homeschooled, we follow the local schools closely - a lot more so than parents that actually warehouse their kids in those abysmal places.

They have a DEI committee that has spent two years now going through every class, every reading, every student activity, and every sport to make sure the woke agenda permeates every hour of school. DEI is front and center in their strategic plan. But graduating kids that can do math or write well - nope.

There is nothing effective we can do against the billions of dollars and all the government, media, and institutional horsepower behind it. Whereas every hour we have spent with our kids has produced irreplaceable value.

There is a wholesale flight from the government schools here. The local K-8 has gone from over 120 to around 30 now. They say it is more, but we sat outside the school on the day of the official count and there were 33. Three schools in town closed last year and one of them is now a homeschool administrative building. Homeschool is exploding.

I think you just have to let them win the Darwin Award. Let them go extinct.
Click to expand...

I would suggest that advocating for an outcome that is statistically a lot worse than even the US's massively underfunded and grossly mismanaged public school system (because of racism) is not a good idea.

Yes, your children did well from it, but that's because in statistics terms you and your families are massive outliers. The most typical US family is not going to have the knowledge, time or resources to even begin to teach their children properly at home,even if they try to do so (most homeschooled kids aren't being taught, they're being propogandised).
 
Gulliver Foyle said:
I would suggest that advocating for an outcome that is statistically a lot worse than even the US's massively underfunded and grossly mismanaged public school system (because of racism) is not a good idea.
Click to expand...

Grossly mismanaged by whom? It seems the more lefty the place the worse the result. Even when lots and lots of taxpayer money is spent. But at least public school students in Illinois know the 100 genders and that white people bad.

Illinois education 2022: Not a single student can do math at grade level in 53 schools. For reading, it’s 30 schools – Wirepoints
 
Woke KinderGarten?

Its a real thing and I can't imagine how anyone thought this wouldn't cause trouble.

https://www.wokekindergarten.org/

It's basically Chris Rufo's fever dream and some school district in CA caused a stir by giving them 250K.


Obviously, I disagree with everything this organization believes on the other hand, I can't believe they called themselves Woke Kindergarten. They are wrong about most things but are they really that stupid?
 
Gulliver Foyle said:
I would suggest that advocating for an outcome that is statistically a lot worse than even the US's massively underfunded and grossly mismanaged public school system (because of racism) is not a good idea.

Yes, your children did well from it, but that's because in statistics terms you and your families are massive outliers. The most typical US family is not going to have the knowledge, time or resources to even begin to teach their children properly at home,even if they try to do so (most homeschooled kids aren't being taught, they're being propogandised).
Click to expand...

This is a great example of common ignorance regarding American schools.

The US spends more per pupil than almost every other nation in the world.
https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/5e4ecc25-en/index.html?itemId=/content/component/5e4ecc25-en
https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/cmd/education-expenditures-by-country
1 country (Ireland) had lower elementary/secondary expenditures per FTE student ($10,000) than the average of OECD countries.
Click to expand...

The other common misconception is that our schools funding is very different depending on where you live. Not really true as most school funding comes from the states and is based on the number of students. There's also federal funding based on the number of students. Local properties taxes make up the rest and its not a big difference anymore.

Also, there's basically no correlation between spending on education and educational outcomes.

Side note, actually related to the topic. WTF? How could someone name there education program Woke Kindergarten, Its a white racists fever dream of what's going on in education? Seriously, WTF?
Also, when you look at this anti-capitalist for profit business's website, it reads like a white racist's fever dream of AOC. WTF?
 
Last edited:
I was already of the opinion that "woke" was bull ****, but this thread has convinced me that "woke" is bull **** no matter who is using the word, and whether they think it's a good thing or not.

It's a poisoned word. Every person who uses it unironically, bar none, has something up their ****.
 
arthwollipot said:
I was already of the opinion that "woke" was bull ****, but this thread has convinced me that "woke" is bull **** no matter who is using the word, and whether they think it's a good thing or not.

It's a poisoned word. Every person who uses it unironically, bar none, has something up their ****.
Click to expand...

You're spouting nonsense. The progressive ideology and epistemology, proudly called woke by progressives, is real. It's real bull ****. When conservatives denounce "woke" it's this real bull **** that they're denouncing. The idea that conservatives are talking about some boogeyman of their own invention is gaslighting from the actual wokesters.
 
theprestige said:
This thread is about Woke: the very real progressive ideology and epistemology, that is ahistorical, anti-science, an extremely bigoted.
Click to expand...
No, it isn't. It only pretends to be.

Woke
Woke is an adjective derived from African-American Vernacular English (AAVE) meaning "alert to racial prejudice and discrimination". Beginning in the 2010s, it came to encompass a broader awareness of social inequalities such as racial injustice, sexism, and denial of LGBT rights. Woke has also been used as shorthand for some ideas of the American Left involving identity politics and social justice, such as white privilege and reparations for slavery in the United States.

The phrase stay woke has been present in AAVE since the 1930s. In some contexts, it referred to an awareness of social and political issues affecting African Americans. The phrase was uttered in recordings from the mid-20th century by Lead Belly and, post-millennium, by Erykah Badu.

2015–2019: Broadening usage

While the term woke initially pertained to issues of racial prejudice and discrimination impacting African Americans, it came to be used by other activist groups with different causes. While there is no single agreed-upon definition of the term, it came to be primarily associated with ideas that involve identity and race and which are promoted by progressives, such as the notion of white privilege or slavery reparations for African Americans. Vox's Aja Romano writes that woke evolved into a "single-word summation of leftist political ideology, centered on social justice politics and critical race theory"...

2019–present: as a pejorative
By 2019, opponents of progressive social movements were often using the term mockingly or sarcastically, implying that "wokeness" was an insincere form of performative activism. British journalist Steven Poole comments that the term is used to mock "overrighteous liberalism". In this pejorative sense, woke means "following an intolerant and moralising ideology".
Click to expand...
This pejorative use of the word 'woke' (note: not capitalized) is exactly what we see in this thread. Don't believe me? Check out this post by someone we know:-

theprestige said:
I for one am interested to see the City of San Francisco's documented history of doing ~$385,000 worth of oppression per year, to any black person living in the city between 1946 and 2008.

What's the dollar amount of how much the Chinese people were oppressed per year, over the same period? What about Mexicans? Russians? Poor whites? Women?

Also, what changed in 1995 (2008?)? Is that the year San Francisco elected its first woke mayor, and stopped oppressing black people to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars per year?
Click to expand...
You ask how much groups other than Blacks have been systematically oppressed throughout the history of the US, as if somehow African Americans are insincerely claiming to have been uniquely harmed. This is exactly what conservatives are claiming 'wokeness' is. But the historical record shows that Blacks have indeed been uniquely harmed, and the effects of this harm continue today.

That's not to say that Chinese, Mexicans, Russians, poor whites or women have not been harmed. But wokeness is not limited to descendants of Black slaves - it applies to all people who have been discriminated against by race or gender.

Considering that two-thirds of the students at Glassbrook Elementary are English learners and more than 80% are Hispanic/Latino, it's pretty much a given they are targets of racial discrimination. Therefore a program that helps teachers deal with it is a good idea, especially with poor attendance levels and falling rolls. That the outfit they hired did a poor job of it is not an indictment of the principle. Rolls were already falling for a reason, and it wasn't that the teachers and staff were 'woke'.
 
Last edited:
ahhell said:
The other common misconception is that our schools funding is very different depending on where you live. Not really true as most school funding comes from the states and is based on the number of students. There's also federal funding based on the number of students. Local properties taxes make up the rest and its not a big difference anymore.
Click to expand...
You ignore local factors that may affect funding.

Heywood Unified School District Budget 2022-2023
Despite the current population growth in the city of Hayward and program enhancements, enrollment continues to decline. Based on an analysis in 2020 and 2021, the decline we are experiencing is different from the declines experienced in the 1970’s. Essentially, 1/3rd of families are staying in Alameda County, but are choosing different educational options, such as local charter schools, privates schools, or neighboring school districts...

For school districts and charter schools, the LCFF establishes base, supplemental, and concentration grants... Each student who is designated as a Low-income, English Learner, or Foster Youth student would generate a “Supplemental” grant of funding. School districts that have “high concentrations” of students designated as a Low-income, English Learner, or Foster Youth student (over 55%) would receive a “Concentration” grant of funding to provide additional supports. As part of the 2021-22 Budget, the State increased the level of Concentration grant funding from 50% of the Base grant for each applicable student, to 65% of the Base grant.
Click to expand...
Sounds good, right?

But,
Due to the pandemic, the State was projecting a $54B shortfall in May 2020, proposed a 10% reduction to Education funding, and deferred $12B in cash payments to schools. One year later, the State is now projecting a $100B surplus...

The difficulty is that the State is still funding schools on a per student (per average daily attendance) basis. Therefore, because Hayward USD is experiencing a decline in enrollment, the level of funding we receive is lower than if enrollment remained flat.
Click to expand...


But wait, there's more! More debt, that is...
State Pension Costs

The District is being severely impacted by the State’s solution in
2013 to fund the California Public Employees Retirement System (PERS) and State Teachers Retirement System (STRS). The solution, as noted below, requires Districts to contribute continued escalating rates towards the two retirement systems. The costs are significant and ongoing...

2014 6% of budget
2018 10% of budget
2021 14% of budget

The result of the additional $22 million annually, in ongoing retirement costs, means an ever increasing portion of our budget is spent on pensions and puts further constraints on an underfunded education system.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
arthwollipot said:
I was already of the opinion that "woke" was bull ****, but this thread has convinced me that "woke" is bull **** no matter who is using the word, and whether they think it's a good thing or not.

It's a poisoned word. Every person who uses it unironically, bar none, has something up their ****.
Click to expand...

I basically agree with this.

This is the thing with moral panics, they are often based on real things.

Red Scare, there were actually commie spies all over america
Satanic panic, there were actually pedofiles.
Woke/CRT: there are actually crazy wokesters trying to indoctrinate kids.

None of that justifies the reaction, a reaction sure, but banning books, blacklisting or what not, not so much.
 
theprestige said:
You're spouting nonsense. The progressive ideology and epistemology, proudly called woke by progressives, is real. It's real bull ****. When conservatives denounce "woke" it's this real bull **** that they're denouncing. The idea that conservatives are talking about some boogeyman of their own invention is gaslighting from the actual wokesters.
Click to expand...
I didn't say that it wasn't real, I said that it was bull ****. People really are using the word unironically. In my opinion, those who do are idiots.
 
Woke is bull ****, as a term. It was a perfectly sound idea, that people should wake up to just what the black experience is really all about, and how pervasive racism is and how deeply ingrained it is, and how it permeates into corners that many hadn't realized. But then it's advocates adopted the dumbest-sounding possible term as a descriptor, and made the idea sound like a joke. Then its advocates jumped the self-righteous shark and the whole thing has now pretty much run out of credibility, largely over branding. If you choose a branding that makes you sound like an illiterate nitwit, that's how you'll get perceived.
 
Roger Ramjets said:
No, it isn't. It only pretends to be.

Woke
This pejorative use of the word 'woke' (note: not capitalized) is exactly what we see in this thread. Don't believe me? Check out this post by someone we know:-

You ask how much groups other than Blacks have been systematically oppressed throughout the history of the US, as if somehow African Americans are insincerely claiming to have been uniquely harmed. This is exactly what conservatives are claiming 'wokeness' is. But the historical record shows that Blacks have indeed been uniquely harmed, and the effects of this harm continue today.

That's not to say that Chinese, Mexicans, Russians, poor whites or women have not been harmed. But wokeness is not limited to descendants of Black slaves - it applies to all people who have been discriminated against by race or gender.

Considering that two-thirds of the students at Glassbrook Elementary are English learners and more than 80% are Hispanic/Latino, it's pretty much a given they are targets of racial discrimination. Therefore a program that helps teachers deal with it is a good idea, especially with poor attendance levels and falling rolls. That the outfit they hired did a poor job of it is not an indictment of the principle. Rolls were already falling for a reason, and it wasn't that the teachers and staff were 'woke'.
Click to expand...

Ugh, you know that ideology that promotes racial identitarianism, sexualization of children, and lowering standards for "equity." That ideology? Being humpty-dumpty about word meaning doesn't change what it is.
 
Roger Ramjets said:
No, it isn't. It only pretends to be.

Woke
This pejorative use of the word 'woke' (note: not capitalized) is exactly what we see in this thread. Don't believe me? Check out this post by someone we know:-
Click to expand...

"Woke" is legitimately used as a pejorative, to denote the very real, anti-social progressive ideology and epistemology that calls itself "woke".
 
Roger Ramjets said:
You ignore local factors that may affect funding.

Heywood Unified School District Budget 2022-2023Sounds good, right?

But,



But wait, there's more! More debt, that is...
Click to expand...

How is it that Utah, which has the lowest per-student spending (~$9K), has a massively higher high school graduation rate than the City of Baltimore, which spends significantly more (~$22,000)?

At 13 Baltimore City high schools, zero students tested proficient on 2023 state math exam

It's not a money issue.
 
Last edited:
Roger Ramjets said:
You ignore local factors that may affect funding.

Heywood Unified School District Budget 2022-2023Sounds good, right?

But,



But wait, there's more! More debt, that is...
Click to expand...

Meh, not really significant as my point still stands because even with those challenges, hayard still beats the OECD aver per pupil spending.

Hayward spends about 15k per kid vs the OECD average 12.5k per kid. Granted cost of living and what not and CA does tend so spend less per pupil than than the national average.

I was generally just responding the wide spread with that the US underfunds education. If we do then so does everyone else except maybe Luxemburg.
 
Thermal said:
Woke is bull ****, as a term. It was a perfectly sound idea, that people should wake up to just what the black experience is really all about, and how pervasive racism is and how deeply ingrained it is, and how it permeates into corners that many hadn't realized. But then it's advocates adopted the dumbest-sounding possible term as a descriptor, and made the idea sound like a joke. Then its advocates jumped the self-righteous shark and the whole thing has now pretty much run out of credibility, largely over branding. If you choose a branding that makes you sound like an illiterate nitwit, that's how you'll get perceived.
Click to expand...

Judging from the posters at Woke Kindergarten, woke basically means "in alignment with the policies of the Democrats."
 
Trausti said:
How is it that Utah, which has the lowest per-student spending (~$9K), has a massively higher high school graduation rate than the City of Baltimore, which spends significantly more (~$22,000)?

At 13 Baltimore City high schools, zero students tested proficient on 2023 state math exam

It's not a money issue.
Click to expand...

I remember a state-by state scorecard on education issues that noted Arizona finished middle of the pack in achievement, but they dinged us for spending less than average. Silly me, I thought average results with below average cost was something to be proud of.
 
Brainster said:
I remember a state-by state scorecard on education issues that noted Arizona finished middle of the pack in achievement, but they dinged us for spending less than average. Silly me, I thought average results with below average cost was something to be proud of.
Click to expand...

Clearly you need to take a Remedial Woke Math class.
 
Thermal said:
Woke is bull ****, as a term. It was a perfectly sound idea, that people should wake up to just what the black experience is really all about, and how pervasive racism is and how deeply ingrained it is, and how it permeates into corners that many hadn't realized. But then it's advocates adopted the dumbest-sounding possible term as a descriptor, and made the idea sound like a joke. Then its advocates jumped the self-righteous shark and the whole thing has now pretty much run out of credibility, largely over branding. If you choose a branding that makes you sound like an illiterate nitwit, that's how you'll get perceived.
Click to expand...
Exactly.

theprestige said:
"Woke" is legitimately used as a pejorative, to denote the very real, anti-social progressive ideology and epistemology that calls itself "woke".
Click to expand...
Case in point.
 
ahhell said:
Hayward spends about 15k per kid vs the OECD average 12.5k per kid. Granted cost of living and what not and CA does tend so spend less per pupil than than the national average.
Click to expand...
Amazing. You read the financial report and still don't get it. Averages are meaningless. Haywood gets extra funding to deal with non-English speaking pupils. They should get more - a lot more.

I was generally just responding the wide spread with that the US underfunds education. If we do then so does everyone else except maybe Luxemburg.
Click to expand...
Then it was off-topic. This thread isn't about education in the US overall, it's about one school.

Well actually it's not really about the school - it's about 'woke', that trigger word that has all the dogs salivating.
 
Roger Ramjets said:
Amazing. You read the financial report and still don't get it. Averages are meaningless. Haywood gets extra funding to deal with non-English speaking pupils. They should get more - a lot more.

Then it was off-topic. This thread isn't about education in the US overall, it's about one school.

Well actually it's not really about the school - it's about 'woke', that trigger word that has all the dogs salivating.
Click to expand...

I didn't start that, I was responding to a misconception being propagated. I will stop doing so.

On topic, that makes this tremendous waste of money on blatant propagandization of children especially bad. I loved some of the quotes by the folks in favor of it. "We tried something new, I'm not ashamed of that" Give the kids drugs and booze would be new too.
 
Last edited:
arthwollipot said:
I didn't say that it wasn't real, I said that it was bull ****. People really are using the word unironically. In my opinion, those who do are idiots.
Click to expand...

Some people, like the Woke Kindergarten people, use the word unironically. And they are promulgating BS. So far, it seems we agree. Am I also promulgating BS by unironically pointing out the facts of the first two sentences in this post?
 
ahhell said:
I didn't start that, I was responding to a misconception being propagated. I will stop doing so.

On topic, that makes this tremendous waste of money on blatant propagandization of children especially bad. I loved some of the quotes by the folks in favor of it. "We tried something new, I'm not ashamed of that" Give the kids drugs and booze would be new too.
Click to expand...

This is the part I'm not totally clear on. Wokey Kindergarten doesn't seem to claim on it's website that they offer some kind of academic score improvements by utilizing their resources. They seem to say it's more of an inclusive way if looking at the world (being generous here). Soooo... what exactly gave the Frisco school board the idea that Wokey Kindergarten was going to make their students score higher academically? The site also says that it runs on donations, because they think Wokiness should be free public access or something. So where did this quarter million dollar package come from? Is this going to be one of those things where one of WK's directors was banging someone on the BoE and scored themselves a little sweetheart deal?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom