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Theists: Please give me a reason to believe in your superpowered invisible overlord

Well I guess you need to read the book I mentioned before you can form an opinion

Maybe.

But many here I would guess have read enough similar tomes to pretty much dismiss this one out of hand.

Unless, as asked before, there's a proposed mechanism by which such a thing would be possible.

Short that, it's likely wishful thinking and hand waving.

But if it floats your boat, great!
 
The title says it all. Theists: Please give me a reason to believe in your superpowered invisible overlord.
Because it works for me.

Question: why do you care? :confused:

(I infer you care because you took the time to frame the question. If you don't care, than the trolling motive would be a rational conclusion).
 
Because it works for me.

Question: why do you care? :confused:

(I infer you care because you took the time to frame the question. If you don't care, than the trolling motive would be a rational conclusion).

God exists to provide you with a workable life solution?
 
Hello --

I appreciate Vortigern99's invitation to submit to this thread what has inadvertently developed into a virtual essay of mine. It's hard to say if this is really a single essay or a series of small surveys on various related cultural/textual/historical patterns. Again, though, this is not geared toward any sort of confirmation of any one creed's concept of the what/who for deity. It is, instead, an overview of those historic patterns that appear to point to some sort of extra-human consciousness that has not been adequately "unwrapped" but that does appear to have (occasional) impact on specific individuals more than on humanity as a whole.

To be user-friendly, I've decided it's more manageable for readers here if I split this up into 12 bite-size installments rather than dumping the entire monster on you at a go. I'll be submitting each of the 12 installments every other day in order to facilitate breathing space -- and the opportunity for some sort of ongoing discussion -- for each installment over a period of roughly 48 hours each.

Accordingly, here is the first installment:

=======================



The human brain, belief/(delusion?) & all that



PREAMBLE


For me, it all starts with reading. I have always been a compulsive and omniverous reader since before grade school. And I spend time comparing things a lot -- historical patterns, texts, social reformers, everything.

Personally, I don't ascribe to any one creed/religion, and I am, furthermore, skeptical of many a religion's claims, including those of the Judaic-Christian-Islamic orbit. I do, though, not rule out the possibility of some kind of extra-dimensional presence that certain especially acute sensibilities may have glimpsed in the past. The question is if that presence is only inside their own (deluded?) heads, or if they're responding to something that is external and therefore real. I don't pretend to be able to answer that question. But to be candid, I don't think anyone else today can really honestly answer that question yet either. Many a future research project into the mechanisms of the human brain will be needed far into this century and beyond, most probably, before we can fully understand its workings well enough to know when it is concocting a mere delusion and when it's responding to something external. Only when we understand the mechanisms of the brain faaaaaaaar better than we do today will we even begin to barely comprehend just what was going on inside the heads of some of those "acute sensibilities" of the past.

It's still interesting to see which gods, whether concocted or not (we simply don't know which), might -- theoretically -- emerge as the more useful, viable -- whatever -- when scrutinized through a 21st-century lens. Whatever the "god"/"presence" is that some visionaries of the past may have glimpsed, I don't think it likely that this "presence" has any kind of active power over events on Earth. If it has any influence at all, it's more likely to be some kind of modest consciousness-raising inside certain isolated acutely sensitive minds rather than any physical dominance over any external events. The latter notion is just too replete with too many internal contradictions.

That said, I'm going quite a bit overboard here -- no question -- with certain speculations on just how the kind of consciousness-raising that I describe might really operate. In this overview, which is strictly speculative on my part, of course, certain concepts relating to this "presence" may emerge as more viable than others. Naturally, few posters will have time to read this (it's a slap-dash compendium of some fairly random jottings that I've assembled here and there on my PC over the past ten years or so), but still it's time for a relatively serious retrospective like this one.

Here goes!



======================

Cheers,

Stone


In the gospel of Mary, Jesus explained that the brain lies between the soul and the spirit
 
Well I guess you need to read the book I mentioned before you can form an opinion
Maybe you can start by pointing to scientific literature that shows that hypnosis and regression is good for revealing anything of value.
 
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I was a pretty lazy Christian. I believed because everyone around me seemed to. I was a bit noncommittal when it came to denomination as they were so clearly man made and had so many logical inconsistencies, but I was certainly a Christian, even though I never gave it much thought. My flip response to non-believers was: My god does not require your belief.

At some point I thought to be a better Christian, learn more about the topic and sort of redouble my efforts to be a Real Christian. This was not a good exercise for my Christianity.

I quickly found that the issues I attributed to denominations were really inherent in Christianity. And the logical lapses were coping mechanisms to find any coherency whatsoever.

The whole idea of worshipping God just made no sense. Why would an omnipotent being want to be worshipped? It just smacks of low self-esteem. Who has time for an omnipotent creator of everything who suffers from low self-esteem?

So, now I've settled into a new flippant response on the topic of religion: God doesn't require my belief.
 
God loves you so much that he created you just so he can torment you forever for not believing in him!
Indeed.

You must exclude asking Muslims to give evidence. It can apply to all theists, except for Muslims. Otherwise you are guilty of racism according to the local "cool kids" on this forum.
Oh change the record.

If you intentionly asked the question in the most obnoxious way possible in the hope of not getting an answer that would challenge your preconceptions, I dare say you have succeeded!

Good luck with that!
So no answer then? :rolleyes:
 
Well I guess you need to read the book I mentioned before you can form an opinion
Sure. But I need some reason to read the book. When you mention "regressions" my "be careful" alarm goes off. But maybe there is some new information in the book which might influence my current world view. That would be pretty awesome. After all, it certainly influenced your perspective.

So why not answer my question and give a little more background. I might decide to delve into it more and then who knows what might happen. As it is, with your dismissive response my general reaction takes me beyond the MA.
 
God exists to provide you with a workable life solution?
DR can, I know, fully defend his post. But I'd like to butt in to say that your question has no relevance whatsoever with what DR posted. You didn't start your post with "So" in order to avoid the "So Rule"?
 
The title says it all. Theists: Please give me a reason to believe in your superpowered invisible overlord. If you like, you can try to start with some objective evidence. Conclusive data of any kind.

Failing that, you may wish to use reasoned arguments to convince me that believing in this being is the right thing to do.

Good luck.

Because it works for me.
Question: why do you care? :confused:

(I infer you care because you took the time to frame the question. If you don't care, than the trolling motive would be a rational conclusion).

God exists to provide you with a workable life solution?

DR can, I know, fully defend his post. But I'd like to butt in to say that your question has no relevance whatsoever with what DR posted. You didn't start your post with "So" in order to avoid the "So Rule"?

There are the posts and I hilited the statements that led to my question.

How I compose my posts is my concern.
 
So no answer then? :rolleyes:

Of course not, the question is ridiculous, intentionally loaded, intentionally offensive and divisive.

It is as if someone asked "when did you start beating your wife."

Save your smart ass "smilie," champ, and do some remedial studying on logical fallacies.

Thanks for posting, though.
 
There are the posts and I hilited the statements that led to my question.

How I compose my posts is my concern.

If you intend to communicate and have productive discussions, how you compose your posts is not solely your concern.
 
Of course not, the question is ridiculous, intentionally loaded, intentionally offensive and divisive.

It is as if someone asked "when did you start beating your wife."

Save your smart ass "smilie," champ, and do some remedial studying on logical fallacies.

Thanks for posting, though.

I have a feeling that despite what some may feel about the tone of the thread's title, Vortigern99 may actually respond thoughtfully to a serious presentation of data.

Candidly, I've come to the -- provisional -- view that whatever lies behind human consciousness does not function as a superpowered overlord. So on that count, my extensive answer, begun here yesterday and to be continued here every other day except weekends, may not necessarily satisfy Vortigern99. But I'm expecting that there will be enough substantive material in it to foster a fruitful dialogue -- and yes, one involving Vortigern99.

We'll see. I've grown to trust 16.5's acuity implicitly. I'm hoping he too may see something constructive in this upcoming series of reflections.

Part 2 of 12 coming up tomorrow.

Cheers,

Stone
 
The OP is certainly a bit of a laaf, I mean 'superpowered invisible overlord', but I am wondering if it does describe some Christian views of God, and maybe it does, people like creationists? They seem to have a view of God as a kind of Superman, or high-level Isambard Brunel, who can knock up a giraffe in a jiffy.

I remember arguing with a creationist about rare species of animal, and I asked him why God creates the Algerian nuthatch, and he replied, rather magnificently, 'because it so pleased him'. There is a kind of overlord flavour there, I think.

But as to other theists, maybe their idea of God is a bit less crude. For example, the idea that God is pure actuality, (Actus Purus), which comes with the imprimatur of Aristotle, no less. However, truth to tell, very few people have a clue what that means! However, it is opposed to 'theistic personalism', which tends to see God as a Very Big Bloke.

One of my theistic friends tell me that he feels known, which sort of impresses me. So I guess for him, there is a Knower. However, it's doubtful if there could be evidence for that; not sure about arguments. It becomes all very subjective. I suppose you do get the argument here, that there is something which cannot not exist, but that seems very obscure. Where is it?

Then there are the non-dualistic movements, such as advaita, where God is a kind of totality or unity, which occurs when the fragments of reality are brought together, hmm. I dunno. Well, they say that not knowing is a start!
 
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