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Merged Ukraine erupts in riots and general strike.

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What the hell could it be denial of? No case for anything was ever made there.

What definition of "case" are you using here? There is a broad case for false-flag snipers made there. Whatever one says about the evidence behind it, it's always underpinned by the massive motive difference - illustrated exactly by how poorly it turned out for Yanukovych. That's predictable, by either party.

And I've been making narrow sub-cases to add to the groundwork of considered evidence and possibilities - with extra care, even, discarding claims supporting my overall case but that don't pan out, and acknowledging correcting my few mistakes. Given the denial, games and obstructionism, dis-engament and ill-informed ridicule, and overall agreement boycott, I think I've done a good job of establishing stuff like this:

- Security forces were chased from the sniper massacre area - partly by insurgent snipers (or for some, riflemen shooting rifles including AK-47s at least from windows in several buildings they controlled) - right before the massacre by (presumed police) snipers (or for some, verified Berkut snipers, like the one seen "concealed" on the OP lawn - prior to the insurgents taking that place over, just before the massacre :rolleyes:). How many pages did we waste on the S-word game? Too many.

- There may be a previously unidentified sniper nest high in the "Arcade" bank. I illustrated with a simple, evident window - of known shape and location - in a building with uncertain control and likely insurgent access - initially closed but opened right after government forces left. Considering that I noticed it right on the line I made by tracing one of two mappable sniping trajectories I've identified ... I propose there's a sniper in that window.

That's not a certainty of anything, but it's grounded in evidence, it's compelling, new, and worth actual consideration. But that case has been met with breathless denial and laughs, and the aforementioned weasel cartoons, as part of the shape game. I just learned from the people in question that math and "research" are needed to identify a rectangle! They won't even agree on the shape of what can be nothing but that rectangular window, as I've shown on video.

That's the kind of nonsense you (and the clowns) call "criticism of poor critical thinking." A man who says he survived the sniper massacre and says they were shot partly from the Hotel is dismissed because Uke2se thinks he sounds "like an idiot." Etc.

You do agree that resulting to insults and labeling is poor style, though, do you not?

Depends. Best avoided, up to a point. If you refer to "clown," it's one of my favorites for just past that point.

In any case, with regards to denial, what do you think of Putin using unmarked troops to take the Crimea, or neo-Nazis for election validation? You know, the US invaded Iraq, are they still there? Will Russia still have Crimea (and maybe more) in 10 years? Is this about decrying aggression, or chosing sides? Isn't the cold war over? Do we want it to return?

I don't have much to say. I haven't kept up on these enough to say anything of value one way or another.
 
Quick question: which country has already sent troops into and directly annexed one part of Ukraine, and is currently intervening militarily in another part (and whose president has publicly declared that he has the authorization to send more troops into Ukraine)?

Is it:

A) The United States

B) NATO

or

C) Russia?

wait Bob its coming, its coming yes the answer to the $64,000 question is

is..

C Russia
 
My life has never been the same after I started to follow @RuNetMemes... :p
 

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Quick question: which country has already sent troops into and directly annexed one part of Ukraine, and is currently intervening militarily in another part (and whose president has publicly declared that he has the authorization to send more troops into Ukraine)?

Is it:

A) The United States

B) NATO

or

C) Russia?

Please provide evidence for russian military intervention in eastern ukraine. And if you post "men with beards" from the NYT:
a) Even Jon Stewart didn't buy those
b) I have some Aluminium Tubes to sell you. Great for building centrifuges! (Don't use them to build centrifuges)

Fun fact: the guy who wrote the pipe story together with Judith Miller wrote the "men with beards" story. He also wrote the "these 2km range missiles where launched from this place 8km away. Both were carrying sarin, even though one wasn't"-story
 
Please provide evidence for russian military intervention in eastern ukraine. And if you post "men with beards" from the NYT:
a) Even Jon Stewart didn't buy those
b) I have some Aluminium Tubes to sell you. Great for building centrifuges! (Don't use them to build centrifuges)

Fun fact: the guy who wrote the pipe story together with Judith Miller wrote the "men with beards" story. He also wrote the "these 2km range missiles where launched from this place 8km away. Both were carrying sarin, even though one wasn't"-story

The men with beards story isn't very convincing.

However Putin has now said that Russian troops were involved in Crimea. Previously Russia had denied this.

Why should we trust his statements on Eastern Ukraine, given the similarities in the chain of events?
 
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The men with beards story isn't very convincing.

However Putin has now said that Russian troops were involved in Crimea. Previously Russia had denied this.

Why should we trust his statements on Eastern Ukraine, given the similarities in the chain of events?

Russian troops have been in Crimea for years. Is this a separate admission these were brought down special and not the one ones based there? And that it was done in the time frame people cite when alleging that?

And that would be one difference - there was no Russian force legitimately present in the areas of Ukraine north of there.
 
Russian troops have been in Crimea for years. Is this a separate admission these were brought down special and not the one ones based there? And that it was done in the time frame people cite when alleging that?

And that would be one difference - there was no Russian force legitimately present in the areas of Ukraine north of there.

Putin admitted the unmarked soldiers were Russian troops. These were either deployed from the bases, or were units unrelated to the Crimean garrison. But the sticking point is that they bore no insignia, were denied as being Russian by Putin during the height of the takeover, and then admitted by Putin as active Russia soldiers after the referendum.

Source
 
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The men with beards story isn't very convincing.


It's a White House-fed NYT story. Robert Parry elaborates on what magellan correctly stated. A bit more details on the photos here. The author is the guy who fed the world the "aluminum tubes" dreck in the wake of the Iraq war and the ridiculous "vector analysis" in the Syria CW craze. And here he is again spreading obvious BS in the "paper of record", for Obama just like he did for Bush. I cannot understand that people like you aren't really outraged about that.
 
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It's a White House-fed NYT story. Robert Parry elaborates on what magellan correctly stated. A bit more details on the photos here. The author is the guy who fed the world the "aluminum tubes" dreck in the wake of the Iraq war and the ridiculous "vector analysis" in the Syria CW craze. And here he is again spreading obvious BS in the "paper of record", for Obama just like he did for Bush. I cannot understand that people like you aren't really outraged about that.

World Socialist Web Site.:rolleyes:

Say, were there unmarked Russian troops in Crimea?
 
Please provide evidence for russian military intervention in eastern ukraine.

In a nearly identical set of events in march, Putin himself admitted to illegally dispatching Russian service personnel to "assist". Certainly circumstantial, but it would be a mighty coincidence otherwise.

On the other hand, is there any evidence these men are indeed local militiamen who grabbed arms to defend their rights? They're very well armed and organized, which proves prior organization. Did they obtain their weapons legally? If yes, where? Where did they get their training and organization? Why did they organize in advance? What was the extent of Russian involvement in those stages?

I contend that if Russia was involved in any of those stages, it amounts to a violation of sovereignty before the events and an illegal invasion since.

McHrozni
 
In a nearly identical set of events in march, Putin himself admitted to illegally dispatching Russian service personnel to "assist". Certainly circumstantial, but it would be a mighty coincidence otherwise.

On the other hand, is there any evidence these men are indeed local militiamen who grabbed arms to defend their rights? They're very well armed and organized, which proves prior organization. Did they obtain their weapons legally? If yes, where? Where did they get their training and organization? Why did they organize in advance? What was the extent of Russian involvement in those stages?

I contend that if Russia was involved in any of those stages, it amounts to a violation of sovereignty before the events and an illegal invasion since.

McHrozni

So no evidence then.
Could you show me that putin admission? I think it's over there, right next to saddam training al quaeda in the use of chemical weapons.
 
So no evidence then.

It's circumstantial, but it is evidence. It's may not be proof beyond all reasonable doubt, but what's your explanation for the events?

Could you show me that putin admission? I think it's over there, right next to saddam training al quaeda in the use of chemical weapons.

I strongly doubt in the validity of the first two words in the second sentence above.

http://www.businessinsider.com/putin-admits-troops-crimea-2014-4
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/17/putin-ukraine_n_5165913.html
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/uk...ssian-forces-helped-crimea-separatists-n82756

It was even on RT.

McHrozni
 
Yes, but how do you get from

“Crimean self-defense forces were of course backed by Russian servicemen,” Putin said

to
Putin himself admitted to illegally dispatching Russian service personnel to "assist".

"Backed" can mean quite a few things. A bit of elaboration would be nice.
 
Putin lied about there not being Russian troops present in Crimea. There are no "buts".

Let me try that out.

Putin lied about there not being Russian troops present in Crimea, but ...

Something tells me there are several valid sentences that could start that way. (presuming the first part really is true - which I don't contest ATM)
 
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