Continuation Part Eight: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

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CoulsdonUK said:
As are Meredith's and Raffaele's.
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Meredith's family control Amanda's plight. They aggressively joined the annulment and reconviction.


REPUBLIC OF ITALY
IN THE NAME OF THE ITALIAN PEOPLE
THE SUPREME COURT
FIRST PENAL SECTION
COMPOSED OF Ill.mi Sigg.ri Magistrati:
Dr SEVERO CHIEFFI -President
Dr MASSIMO VECCHIO -Council Member
Dr GIUSEPPE LOCATELLI -Council Member
Dr PIERA MARIA SEVERINA CAPRIOGLIO -Recording Member
Dr GIACOMO ROCCHI -Council Member

has pronounced the following
JUDGEMENT
On the appeal proposed by:

THE PROCURATORE GENERALE FOR THE APPEAL COURT OF PERUGIA
KERCHER STEPHANIE ARLINE LARA. DOB 21/07/1983
KERCHER ARLINE CAROL MARY, DOB 11/11/1945
KERCHER JOHN ASHLEY DOB 21/10/1976
KERCHER LYLE DOB 03/07/1979
KERCHER JOHN LESLIE N. IL 11/12/1942
against

AMANDA KNOX MARIE DOB 09/07/1987
SOLLECITO, RAFFAELE DOB 26/03/1984
Also:
AMANDA KNOX MARIE DOB 09/07/1987

against the judgement in. 10/2010 APPEAL COURT of PERUGIA of 03/10/2011

Taking account of the facts, the judgement and the appeal,
heard in PUBLIC HEARING on 25/03/2013, proceedings recorded by
Councillor Dr PIERA MARIA SEVERINA CAPRIOGLIO

Hearing in person Procurator General Dr Miji RIELLO
Which has concluded with the rejection of the petition by KNOX; annulling the judgement in
relation to Headings A,B,C,D,E, and concerning heading F, annulment limited to the aggravating
factors which relate to the act,Glu2cp (hand-written, barely legible)
 
Samson said:
As you point out it is an internet forum, and this one is designated for the curious. Language is interpreted many ways, but if I seem indifferent to the extraditee I have failed miserably. Actually 80% of people have had or will have a 20 year old daughter, so Amanda's plight is deeply felt by many.
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CoulsdonUK said:
As are Meredith's and Raffaele's.
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It is not really Amanda's fault about what happened with Raffaele.
Sometimes the blame needs to be on those responsible and that is the Italian Authorities.

As far as Meredeth, I hate to sound uncaring but one needs to move on with one's life and keep living. We all die. Amanda (and Raffaele) effectively cannot live completely because there is a weight around their necks.
 
Desert Fox said:
It is not really Amanda's fault about what happened with Raffaele. Sometimes the blame needs to be on those responsible and that is the Italian Authorities.

As far as Meredeth, I hate to sound uncaring but one needs to move on with one's life and keep living. We all die. Amanda (and Raffaele) effectively cannot live completely because there is a weight around their necks.
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Raffaele has made this point repeatedly, and continues to make it.

The first time I heard him speak it was during his Katie Couric interview. There was a premier journalist, Kati Couric, with a subject in this case in front of her, and she barely asked any questions about Raffaele himself.

It was all about Amanda. Couric asked Raffaele to explain Amanda's post-murder, pre-arrest behaviour. How on earth does anyone "explain" anyone else's behaviour? Raffaele did his best to get Couric back on track, buy saying things like, "Well, I don't know about that, all I do know is that this whole tragedy has nothing to do with me."

Raffaele has been asked, "Do you regret meeting Amanda Knox?" His answer is always the same, he has repeatedly said, "Amanda did not do anything to me. Why would I regret meeting her?"
 
Samson said:
Meredith's family control Amanda's plight. They aggressively joined the annulment and reconviction.


REPUBLIC OF ITALY
IN THE NAME OF THE ITALIAN PEOPLE
THE SUPREME COURT
FIRST PENAL SECTION
COMPOSED OF Ill.mi Sigg.ri Magistrati:
Dr SEVERO CHIEFFI -President
Dr MASSIMO VECCHIO -Council Member
Dr GIUSEPPE LOCATELLI -Council Member
Dr PIERA MARIA SEVERINA CAPRIOGLIO -Recording Member
Dr GIACOMO ROCCHI -Council Member

has pronounced the following
JUDGEMENT
On the appeal proposed by:

THE PROCURATORE GENERALE FOR THE APPEAL COURT OF PERUGIA
KERCHER STEPHANIE ARLINE LARA. DOB 21/07/1983
KERCHER ARLINE CAROL MARY, DOB 11/11/1945
KERCHER JOHN ASHLEY DOB 21/10/1976
KERCHER LYLE DOB 03/07/1979
KERCHER JOHN LESLIE N. IL 11/12/1942
against

AMANDA KNOX MARIE DOB 09/07/1987
SOLLECITO, RAFFAELE DOB 26/03/1984
Also:
AMANDA KNOX MARIE DOB 09/07/1987

against the judgement in. 10/2010 APPEAL COURT of PERUGIA of 03/10/2011

Taking account of the facts, the judgement and the appeal,
heard in PUBLIC HEARING on 25/03/2013, proceedings recorded by
Councillor Dr PIERA MARIA SEVERINA CAPRIOGLIO

Hearing in person Procurator General Dr Miji RIELLO
Which has concluded with the rejection of the petition by KNOX; annulling the judgement in
relation to Headings A,B,C,D,E, and concerning heading F, annulment limited to the aggravating
factors which relate to the act,Glu2cp (hand-written, barely legible)
Click to expand...

This is truly unfortunate, but is a result of a glaring flaw in the Italian system. I see the Kerchers as being victims of a flawed system, a greedy lawyer, biased and incompetent investigation, and an unethical prosecution.

Under this system the victim's family has been encouraged to buy into the prosecution's story before having heard the evidence on both sides and essentially has become an active participant in the prosecution with a large financial stake. Not their fault. It's a rotten system.
 
CoulsdonUK said:
The Hellmann appeal only exists on internet discussion sites, you won't find it mentioned in the Florence motivations, just a guess.
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Whether or not it is mentioned by Nencini doesn't mean it never happened and that all but a few posters have forgotten it.

If I understand it, Massei will no longer have any meaning after the next motivations in that the ISC only looks at that version of events.

Of course, you will toss all the Italian court verdicts if a US court rules there wasn't even probable cause against Amanda. If the State Dept decides the case was purely political will that be the final word for you?

How do you the view the work of C&V?
 
Samson said:
Meredith's family control Amanda's plight. They aggressively joined the annulment and reconviction.


REPUBLIC OF ITALY
IN THE NAME OF THE ITALIAN PEOPLE
THE SUPREME COURT
FIRST PENAL SECTION
COMPOSED OF Ill.mi Sigg.ri Magistrati:
Dr SEVERO CHIEFFI -President
Dr MASSIMO VECCHIO -Council Member
Dr GIUSEPPE LOCATELLI -Council Member
Dr PIERA MARIA SEVERINA CAPRIOGLIO -Recording Member
Dr GIACOMO ROCCHI -Council Member

has pronounced the following
JUDGEMENT
On the appeal proposed by:

THE PROCURATORE GENERALE FOR THE APPEAL COURT OF PERUGIA
KERCHER STEPHANIE ARLINE LARA. DOB 21/07/1983
KERCHER ARLINE CAROL MARY, DOB 11/11/1945
KERCHER JOHN ASHLEY DOB 21/10/1976
KERCHER LYLE DOB 03/07/1979
KERCHER JOHN LESLIE N. IL 11/12/1942
against

AMANDA KNOX MARIE DOB 09/07/1987
SOLLECITO, RAFFAELE DOB 26/03/1984
Also:
AMANDA KNOX MARIE DOB 09/07/1987

against the judgement in. 10/2010 APPEAL COURT of PERUGIA of 03/10/2011

Taking account of the facts, the judgement and the appeal,
heard in PUBLIC HEARING on 25/03/2013, proceedings recorded by
Councillor Dr PIERA MARIA SEVERINA CAPRIOGLIO

Hearing in person Procurator General Dr Miji RIELLO
Which has concluded with the rejection of the petition by KNOX; annulling the judgement in
relation to Headings A,B,C,D,E, and concerning heading F, annulment limited to the aggravating
factors which relate to the act,Glu2cp (hand-written, barely legible)
Click to expand...
Samson

Okay as I said I am not clever, therefore I am at a loss to understand the point you are making above.
 
andreajo said:
This is truly unfortunate, but is a result of a glaring flaw in the Italian system. I see the Kerchers as being victims of a flawed system, a greedy lawyer, biased and incompetent investigation, and an unethical prosecution.

Under this system the victim's family has been encouraged to buy into the prosecution's story before having heard the evidence on both sides and essentially has become an active participant in the prosecution with a large financial stake. Not their fault. It's a rotten system.
Click to expand...
I realise I am in a minority in unconditionally deploring the behaviour of the Kercher family. Maybe it is cultural, I am remote from this case and try to see it from a "god's eye point of view" (nonreligious viewpoint I might add). When I do this I see nothing but malevolence in their behaviour. They are duty bound to each independently assess the evidence when actively hunting their prey. If this case is even 50 50, there is a vanishingly small chance of agreement amongst 5 people. There was a declaration of innocence that was grimly rejected without evidential comment by these people. I see them as serial offenders in gross acts of omission and commission.
 
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Samson said:
Meredith's family control Amanda's plight. They aggressively joined the annulment and reconviction.


REPUBLIC OF ITALY
IN THE NAME OF THE ITALIAN PEOPLE
THE SUPREME COURT
FIRST PENAL SECTION
COMPOSED OF Ill.mi Sigg.ri Magistrati:
Dr SEVERO CHIEFFI -President
Dr MASSIMO VECCHIO -Council Member
Dr GIUSEPPE LOCATELLI -Council Member
Dr PIERA MARIA SEVERINA CAPRIOGLIO -Recording Member
Dr GIACOMO ROCCHI -Council Member

has pronounced the following
JUDGEMENT
On the appeal proposed by:

THE PROCURATORE GENERALE FOR THE APPEAL COURT OF PERUGIA
KERCHER STEPHANIE ARLINE LARA. DOB 21/07/1983
KERCHER ARLINE CAROL MARY, DOB 11/11/1945
KERCHER JOHN ASHLEY DOB 21/10/1976
KERCHER LYLE DOB 03/07/1979
KERCHER JOHN LESLIE N. IL 11/12/1942
against

AMANDA KNOX MARIE DOB 09/07/1987
SOLLECITO, RAFFAELE DOB 26/03/1984
Also:
AMANDA KNOX MARIE DOB 09/07/1987

against the judgement in. 10/2010 APPEAL COURT of PERUGIA of 03/10/2011

Taking account of the facts, the judgement and the appeal,
heard in PUBLIC HEARING on 25/03/2013, proceedings recorded by
Councillor Dr PIERA MARIA SEVERINA CAPRIOGLIO

Hearing in person Procurator General Dr Miji RIELLO
Which has concluded with the rejection of the petition by KNOX; annulling the judgement in
relation to Headings A,B,C,D,E, and concerning heading F, annulment limited to the aggravating
factors which relate to the act,Glu2cp (hand-written, barely legible)
Click to expand...


Not only that, Maresca filed a civil suit on behalf of the Kerchers against the Sollecito family in the case started against them, and on Amanda's family on behalf of the police for that defamation charge as well as Amanda herself for the other, seldom discussed calunnia charge that arose as a result of her telling her side in court. As far as I know these charges are still winding their way through the labyrinth, and in the Sollecito case might actually lead to serious repercussions for the family of Raffaele Sollecito, though the one against Amanda's parents may just be harassment level.

It's an appeal to consequences for some: if Amanda and Raffaele are innocent then certain people have done some shameful things in persecuting them without taking into account the concept of 'innocent until proven guilty.' Therefore they can't be innocent or some will have to re-evaluate their actions the past six or so years.
 
Samson said:
I realise I am in a minority in unconditionally deploring the behaviour of the Kercher family. Maybe it is cultural, I am remote from this case and try to see it from a "god's eye point of view" (areligious viewpoint I might add). When I do this I see nothing but malevolence in their behaviour. They are duty bound to each independently assess the evidence when actively hunting their prey. If this case is even 50 50, there is a vanishingly small chance of agreement amongst 5 people. There was a declaration of innocence that was grimly rejected without evidential comment by these people. I see them as serial offenders in gross acts of omission and commission.
Click to expand...

The Kerchers have been placed in a terrible position by the system. In their grief, they have been manipulated by the prosecution and by their lawyer. They have been placed in a position of pecuniary conflict of interest and given participatory power in proceedings that they should not have. IMO, they have been shamefully used by their lawyer and by the prosecution.

The fact that the family are all in this together makes it less likely rather than more that one of them would 'break faith' and come to a conflicting conclusion, causing a rift in an already broken family.

The responsibility for the whole dreadful situation must lie with Rudy and the people who failed in their professional responsibility to investigate the crime thoroughly and without bias and to prosecute it ethically.

Could the Kerchers help Amanda and Raffaele by behaving differently? Yes. Do I wish they would? Absolutely. But none of this is their fault any more than it is Amanda's.
 
andreajo said:
The Kerchers have been placed in a terrible position by the system. In their grief, they have been manipulated by the prosecution and by their lawyer. They have been placed in a position of pecuniary conflict of interest and given participatory power in proceedings that they should not have. IMO, they have been shamefully used by their lawyer and by the prosecution.

The fact that the family are all in this together makes it less likely rather than more that one of them would 'break faith' and come to a conflicting conclusion, causing a rift in an already broken family.

The responsibility for the whole dreadful situation must lie with Rudy and the people who failed in their professional responsibility to investigate the crime thoroughly and without bias and to prosecute it ethically.

Could the Kerchers help Amanda and Raffaele by behaving differently? Yes. Do I wish they would? Absolutely. But none of this is their fault any more than it is Amanda's.
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I am glad for and respect your view here, but I am confounded by the case. It is driving me nuts, because I know Rudy broke in (it is impossible and unnecessary to generate the velocity to drive the glass shard into the shutter from inside), and I know that Meredith was shocked and surprised by Guede, and her digestive process halted right then. These facts are uncontestable (albeit contested by fools). If this is scientifically certain, anyone who prosecutes the two are guilty of wilful ignorance, and I condemn them for it.
 
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andreajo said:
The Kerchers have been placed in a terrible position by the system. In their grief, they have been manipulated by the prosecution and by their lawyer. They have been placed in a position of pecuniary conflict of interest and given participatory power in proceedings that they should not have. IMO, they have been shamefully used by their lawyer and by the prosecution.

The fact that the family are all in this together makes it less likely rather than more that one of them would 'break faith' and come to a conflicting conclusion, causing a rift in an already broken family.

The responsibility for the whole dreadful situation must lie with Rudy and the people who failed in their professional responsibility to investigate the crime thoroughly and without bias and to prosecute it ethically.

Could the Kerchers help Amanda and Raffaele by behaving differently? Yes. Do I wish they would? Absolutely. But none of this is their fault any more than it is Amanda's.
Click to expand...

Yes. The system allowing them in the courtroom as advocates for conviction is primitive and medieval. While we allow participation in the sentencing phase, even that seems a too much. It turns justice into revenge.
 
andreajo said:
The Kerchers have been placed in a terrible position by the system. In their grief, they have been manipulated by the prosecution and by their lawyer. They have been placed in a position of pecuniary conflict of interest and given participatory power in proceedings that they should not have. IMO, they have been shamefully used by their lawyer and by the prosecution.

The fact that the family are all in this together makes it less likely rather than more that one of them would 'break faith' and come to a conflicting conclusion, causing a rift in an already broken family.

The responsibility for the whole dreadful situation must lie with Rudy and the people who failed in their professional responsibility to investigate the crime thoroughly and without bias and to prosecute it ethically.

Could the Kerchers help Amanda and Raffaele by behaving differently? Yes. Do I wish they would? Absolutely. But none of this is their fault any more than it is Amanda's.
Click to expand...

Intriguing, just how do you believe the Kercher family’s behaviour could alter the course of Italy’s 3 level trial process?
 
CoulsdonUK said:
Intriguing, just how do you believe the Kercher family’s behaviour could alter the course of Italy’s 3 level trial process?
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They voluntarily joined the prosecution. They could have sprinted in the opposite direction, and Hellmann would have prevailed.
 
Samson said:
I am glad for and respect your view here, but I am confounded by the case. It is driving me nuts, because I know Rudy broke in (it is impossible and unnecessary to generate the velocity to drive the glass shard into the shutter from inside), and I know that Meredith was shocked and surprised by Guede, and her digestive process halted right then. These facts are uncontestable (albeit contested by fools). If this is scientifically certain, anyone who prosecutes the two are guilty of wilful ignorance, and I condemn them for it.
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You are the fool if you think this is a certainty. In fact most of the literature would say the kind of stress you are describing would speed the process. You know as in scared ********. (without poop in system)
 
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CoulsdonUK said:
Intriguing, just how do you believe the Kercher family’s behaviour could alter the course of Italy’s 3 level trial process?
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NB! I am not saying the Kerchers should do any of these things. This is just partisan wishing.

They would not participate as plaintiffs in the three level judicial proceedings. That would be the biggie. Mr. Maresca has been quite a force for the prosecution. Perhaps the state would have declined to appeal the acquittal or the Supreme Court would have finalized the acquittal if the Kerchers had not participated.

Outside the trial process, they would quit suing the Knoxes and Sollecitos, as described above.

Also outside the trial process, they could talk with Amanda.

Of course, all of this would require them to believe differently than they do, or at least require them to retreat to a position of neutrality.
 
Coulsdon I really like answers. What do you think of C&V? Will you respect the US courts decisions? Etc.
 
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