[Merged] Immortality & Bayesian Statistics

[John Jones]

- I'm currently trying to show why I think that there is an infinity of potential "selves."
- Let's see if you agree with any of my premisses -- one premise at a time.

1) It would appear that consciousness is an emergent property that is “released” any time that a particular physical situation occurs…

Disagree.

 

[Jabba]

"consciousness is an emergent property that is 'released' any time that a particular physical situation occurs…"

Water is an emergent property that is “released” anytime H₂O molecules come together under condusive temperature and pressure conditions"

Sand dunes are an emergent property that is “released” any time sand grains are carried and deposited by condusive wind or water flow.

Your use of the word released in scare quotes so as to suggest some sort of unknown metaphysical explanation is required does not fit in my two examples, does it. Such an idea adds nothing to an account of their emergence. Why do you think it adds anything to an account of consciousnesses as an emergent property of the physical makeup of the brain?

- I don't understand the use of "scare" in the above?

 

[Filippo Lippi]

- I don't understand the use of "scare" in the above?

I'll add it to the list

 

[Loss Leader]

- It appears that no one agrees with me. Does anyone agree that consciousness is an emergent property? (I had thought that you all did.)

I agree that consciousness is an emergent property of the brain. I just don't think you understand what "emergent" means.

 

[Agatha]

- It appears that no one agrees with me. Does anyone agree that consciousness is an emergent property? (I had thought that you all did.)

Everyone agrees that consciousness is an emergent property of the brain. Nobody agrees that consciousness is 'released' at any time, let alone when a 'particular physical situation occurs'.

Perhaps you were trying to include your conclusion in your premise? My suggestion would be to start again with:

1. Consciousness is an emergent property of the brain of a living organism.

If you and everyone else agrees with that, then go on to your next premise (not your conclusion). For information, the plural of premise is premises.

 

[Slowvehicle]

- It appears that no one agrees with me. Does anyone agree that consciousness is an emergent property? (I had thought that you all did.)

Good Afternoon, Mr. Savage.

I wonder why it is that you are doing this coy little gavotte?

How many times must I, or anyone else in the thread, or on the forum, or by e-mail, clearly make the statement that "consciousness is an emergent property of a neurosystem" before you stop trying to get a "gotcha" by contentious rephrasing?

I do not agree that "consciousness is an emergent property"; I claim that consciousness is an emergent property of a neurosystem.

There is, in fact, a gulf wide and fixed between those two statements.

 

[jond]

Everyone agrees that consciousness is an emergent property of the brain. Nobody agrees that consciousness is 'released' at any time, let alone when a 'particular physical situation occurs'.

Perhaps you were trying to include your conclusion in your premise? My suggestion would be to start again with:

1. Consciousness is an emergent property of the brain of a living organism.

If you and everyone else agrees with that, then go on to your next premise (not your conclusion). For information, the plural of premise is premises.

This.

 

[Jabba]

Why don't you just get rid of the second part of your sentence? "Consciousness is an emergent property" of the physical brain. I disagree with any of your restrictions on this basic statement of the SM.

- I had missed this before. It appears that we do agree upon something. Can you give me a scientific source for "consciousness is an emergent property"?

 

[Agatha]

- I don't understand the use of "scare" in the above?

Click on the little WP for an explanation: Scare_quotes^WP

Could you explain why you put the word "released" in single quote marks, if you didn't intend to signify scare quotes?

 

[Slowvehicle]

- I don't understand the use of "scare" in the above?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scare_quotes
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/scare quotes
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/scare_quote
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/scare-quotes

 

[John Jones]

- It appears that no one agrees with me. Does anyone agree that consciousness is an emergent property? (I had thought that you all did.)

I can't believe you think this was worth asking.

 

[John Jones]

- I had missed this before. It appears that we do agree upon something. Can you give me a scientific source for "consciousness is an emergent property"?

Hey! Who started this thread with an unsupported claim anyway? That's right. You did!


Now do your own homework.

 

[Agatha]

- I had missed this before. It appears that we do agree upon something. Can you give me a scientific source for "consciousness is an emergent property"?

No, because that would not be entirely accurate or sufficiently specific.

But you can undoubtedly find many sources for "consciousness is an emergent property of the brain of a living organism", or to use Slowvehicle's phrase "consciousness is an emergent property of a neurosystem". As a general rule, we are not here to do your homework or research; our time is equally as valuable as yours.

You can use google or other search engine - one simple way is to highlight the phrase using your mouse/trackpad, then right-clicking on the highlighted word or phrase and selecting 'search google for <highlighted word or phrase>'. A new tab will open with the search results, and you can choose which source to consult.

 

[Slowvehicle]

- I had missed this before. It appears that we do agree upon something. Can you give me a scientific source for "consciousness is an emergent property"?

http://willcov.com/bio-consciousness/front/A Little More.htm

Consciousness is inextricably bound to the biological mechanism of the brain. When the biological mechanism ceases to function, as in death, consciousness ceases to exist.

http://www.atheistnexus.org/profiles/blogs/emergent-properties-of-the-human-brain-continued

Consciousness is an emergent property of the brain.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/properties-emergent/

http://www.quora.com/Is-consciousne...the-brain-or-a-fundamental-property-of-matter

 

[John Jones]

[...]

You can use google or other search engine - one simple way is to highlight the phrase using your mouse/trackpad, then right-clicking on the highlighted word or phrase and selecting 'search google for <highlighted word or phrase>'. A new tab will open with the search results, and you can choose which source to consult.

I never knew that was there. Thanks for putting the E in JREF.

 

[Loss Leader]

Can you give me a scientific source for "consciousness is an emergent property"?

If you don't know the scientific model of the universe, how can you claim to have properly computed a probability based on it?

 

[xtifr]

Indeed, I think Jabba is so attached to his own view of what consciousness is (soul), that it never even occurred to him that "consciousness is an emergent property of the brain" might be in contradiction with that notion. I think he's just assuming it's a funny way of saying what he's meant all along. Until he can jump that hurdle, I expect to see a lot of running around in circles. Of course, to get there, he's going to have to figure out what emergence means in information/systems theory. I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Aepervius]

- I had missed this before. It appears that we do agree upon something. Can you give me a scientific source for "consciousness is an emergent property"?

I am sorry, but for a well researched topic, how can you be so ignorant on what is today's basic understanding...

Or are you admitting you plainly are ignorant of that and now you have to go back to the drawing board for your probability calculation ?

Either way I am grabbing pop corn waiting for your answer.

 

[Sideroxylon]

- I don't understand the use of "scare" in the above?

Now, links have been provided for that question that was largely irrelevant to the point, could you address the question I had about the examples? Why do we need to talk about an emergent property being released? Do we need to use the same concept to describe other emergent phenomena like waves, storms, dunes, bird flock behaviour, slime mold behaviour... ect. What exactly do you intend by use of the term released in relation to emergence?

 

[Sideroxylon]

Indeed, I think Jabba is so attached to his own view of what consciousness is (soul), that it never even occurred to him that "consciousness is an emergent property of the brain" might be in contradiction with that notion. I think he's just assuming it's a funny way of saying what he's meant all along. Until he can jump that hurdle, I expect to see a lot of running around in circles. Of course, to get there, he's going to have to figure out what emergence means in information/systems theory. I'm not holding my breath.

It's a fascinating field. I'm looking forward to some informative posts on the matter as we dig into the issue.