Merged Ukraine erupts in riots and general strike.

[Darth Rotor]

Back in Kiev, today the "Deputy head of the Parliament's Committee on Freedom of Speech", member of Svoboda, showed how qualified he is for the job when he ...

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Given his job title, should your smilie thing not be a laughing dog?

You can't make this stuff up!

Orwell wept, he was laughing so hard.

 

[LSSBB]

Back in Kiev, today the "Deputy head of the Parliament's Committee on Freedom of Speech", member of Svoboda, showed how qualified he is for the job when he ...





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Sounds like perfect justification for Russia to violate the Ukrainian national sovereignty. I see you also would then approve of Bush invading Iraq, because Saddam Hussein was a not so nice guy too.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Given his job title, should your smilie thing not be a laughing dog?

I don't know. This is kind of beyond HAHA funny. I'm starting to hope for the Ukrainian military to putsch these creeps out of "office" again.

 

[L.Y.S.]

Ah,moral equvilency again. I think you are going find out, very quickly, that is not going to sell very well in the US after the events of the past two weeks.

Most Americans are unaware or don't care about the Ukraine crisis.

 

[Dcdrac]

Can someone explain to me why some of on the far left think its fine for an autocrat to take over some where un questioningly.

 

[The Don]

Can someone explain to me why some of on the far left think its fine for an autocrat to take over some where un questioningly.

For the same reason that most of the people in the West are happy with the overthrow of the democratically elected (but very corrupt) President of Ukraine, it aligns with their geopolitical goals.

In the case of the West it's the spread of Western-style democracy (though there is a little irony in this case of the way it has been achieved), the extension of the free market into former communist states and the curtailing of Russia's influence globally.

In the case of the far left I suppose it's the increase in Russian influence which may act as a balance to the U.S. and its allies and the uncheked spread of unfettered free market capitalism with the malign effects this has. It may also act as a check against perceived U.S. cultural and military imperialsm.

 

[McHrozni]

I get what you said, but Russia still has considerable oil fields and pipelines in the east. Russia will benefit greatly from a Chinese pipeline. Russia will most likely be forced into this option as the Ukraine crisis unfolds.

East and west are relative terms. They're pretty far west as far as China is concerned.

Russia will not benefit from a Chinese pipeline. Putin might. There's a large difference between the two.

McHrozni

 

[McHrozni]

For the same reason that most of the people in the West are happy with the overthrow of the democratically elected (but very corrupt) President of Ukraine, it aligns with their geopolitical goals.

Being democratically elected does not entitle you to finish your term. If you do too many stupid acts, you're liable to be deposed though democratic means, as Yanukovich was, as Nixon would be if he didn't resign, and so on. There is nothing undemocratic by democratically deposing an elected official. Yanukovich actually fled to a foreign country and asked for military assistance, presumably to force his return to power. Show me a democracy that doesn't consider this treason.

In the case of the far left I suppose it's the increase in Russian influence which may act as a balance to the U.S. and its allies and the uncheked spread of unfettered free market capitalism with the malign effects this has. It may also act as a check against perceived U.S. cultural and military imperialsm.

This basically shows they're hypocrites, against the west and not for freedom, democracy etc. We knew this, but seeing it confirmed is a good thing.

McHrozni

 

[Garrison]

Of course if there are now far right elements in the Kiev government the blame lies squarely with Putin; it was his arm twisting that sabotaged the EU trade deal and triggered off the protests. Had Yanukovich simply followed his mandate from the people of Ukraine rather than the diktats of Moscow he would still be sat in his nice office in Kiev.

 

[McHrozni]

Most Americans are unaware or don't care about the Ukraine crisis.

Can you back this up with data, or is it a meaningless slur?

McHrozni

 

[ZouPrime]

How can the US expect Russia to conduct itself properly when it can manage to the do the same itself? The US doesn't care about Ukraine. It never has. Most people protesting don't care about Ukraine. They care about smiting Russia.

No, the real question is: how is this related to the US to begin with? Why what the US has or hasn't done is the yardstick for what is happening in Ukraine?

In the case of the West it's the spread of Western-style democracy (though there is a little irony in this case of the way it has been achieved), the extension of the free market into former communist states and the curtailing of Russia's influence globally.

The whole situation has way more to do with Russia paranoia and its relationship with Ukraine, than with the west pushing for "western-style democracy" and putting pressure on Putin.

 

[Ziggurat]

Why would China want to be dependent on Russia for petroleum when they have much friendlier governments elsewhere to get it from?

Because the US Navy can't blockade a pipeline from Russia.

Governments who don't use it as a weapon to force political compliance like Russia does?

We don't right now, but if tensions escalated sufficiently with respect to Taiwan (ie, they attack), that might change.

China and Russia do not have a friendly history.

True, which is why China wouldn't want Russia as a sole supplier. But they do have good reason to want Russian oil as an alternative that's not so vulnerable to disruption from the US.

 

[trustbutverify]

For the same reason that most of the people in the West are happy with the overthrow of the democratically elected (but very corrupt) President of Ukraine, it aligns with their geopolitical goals.

In the case of the West it's the spread of Western-style democracy (though there is a little irony in this case of the way it has been achieved), the extension of the free market into former communist states and the curtailing of Russia's influence globally.

In the case of the far left I suppose it's the increase in Russian influence which may act as a balance to the U.S. and its allies and the uncheked spread of unfettered free market capitalism with the malign effects this has. It may also act as a check against perceived U.S. cultural and military imperialsm.

In the case of the Galloway-style left, it goes much further than that. Does anyone seriously believe the enlightened folks populating the Tea Party challenge President Obama's citizenship because they're concerned about constitutional integrity? Or is that just convenient camouflage for another agenda?

 

[McHrozni]

True, which is why China wouldn't want Russia as a sole supplier. But they do have good reason to want Russian oil as an alternative that's not so vulnerable to disruption from the US.

Hm, I'm not if that's critical. An open war between the two would likely open with far more devastating moves than a mere oil blockade. Three gorges dam, nuclear power plants ... China is rife with targets.
Welcome, maybe. But an oil pipeline is vurneable to air or missile strike, saboteurs, and pretty much commits you to buying oil from that source.

McHrozni

 

[Ziggurat]

Hm, I'm not if that's critical. An open war between the two would likely open with far more devastating moves than a mere oil blockade. Three gorges dam, nuclear power plants ... China is rife with targets.
Welcome, maybe. But an oil pipeline is vurneable to air or missile strike, saboteurs, and pretty much commits you to buying oil from that source.

McHrozni

If it's all-out war, yes, pipelines can be hit, but they can also be repaired. But we can do a naval blockade without having to actually fire a shot. That makes it a tool we'd be more willing to use than actual air strikes in Chinese territory.

 

[dudalb]

Most Americans are unaware or don't care about the Ukraine crisis.

You are wrong about being unaware.
Too soon to tell about the latter.
And it must really suck at times to have the contempt that you seem to have for your own country.

 

[dudalb]

In the case of the Galloway-style left, it goes much further than that. Does anyone seriously believe the enlightened folks populating the Tea Party challenge President Obama's citizenship because they're concerned about constitutional integrity? Or is that just convenient camouflage for another agenda?

And the E.U.is an example of unfettered Free Market Capitalism???????????

 

[McHrozni]

If it's all-out war, yes, pipelines can be hit, but they can also be repaired.

A modern full-scale war between superpowers is so destructive this wouldn't account for much. Yes, you can repair them, but the war will be over in a few weeks.

But we can do a naval blockade without having to actually fire a shot.

If the enemy has the ability to fight back, no you can't. China is not Cuba.

That makes it a tool we'd be more willing to use than actual air strikes in Chinese territory.

Maybe. But wouldn't a simple ban on sales of Chinese products in US be just as (in?)effective? Added points if you can get Europe and Japan. What will the oil help them then? The world economy will take a nose dive in any event.

I won't deny that the oil pipeline is a strategic asset, but not nearly as valuable in a full scale war.

McHrozni

 

[Ziggurat]

If the enemy has the ability to fight back, no you can't. China is not Cuba.

When we blockaded Cuba, it wasn't the Cuban navy we faced down, it was the Russian navy. If China isn't willing to escalate, then they can't stop a US blockade.

Maybe. But wouldn't a simple ban on sales of Chinese products in US be just as (in?)effective?

China would feel the pinch of a cutoff in oil much quicker than they would feel the pinch of a cutoff in American purchases.

Plus, Taiwan could actually disrupt China's maritime oil supply even without US backing (they have a sub fleet).

I won't deny that the oil pipeline is a strategic asset, but not nearly as valuable in a full scale war.

True, but a limited war is the more realistic scenario, and the one they want to be able to win.

 

[A'isha]

In more bizarre news, the users of Japanese social media site 2channel are apparently utterly enamored of Ukraine's Crimea's new Attorney General, Natalia Polonskaya. Drawing-cute-anime-style-fanart-of-her enamored.