Merged Ukraine erupts in riots and general strike.

[uke2se]

Hm. Good answer.


http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/0...ersions-sniper-tragedy-that-drove-yanukovych/

He offers this as a rebuttal to the claim that the snipers shot both sides to stoke tensions and provoke an overthrow, and were hired by the people who had reason to and were involved in an overthrow. That. he thinks, "does not correspond with reality." Reality is that + Russia did it, so they could invade, and obviously Crimea is just the beginning. Official story in Kiev. What say you to that CT nuttery? Can you catch up with this one?

ETA: Oh but I found that by "investigoogling!" It doesn't count! Just like videos lose all evidentiary value once they're put on Youtube. Duh.

"The similarity of bullets wounds suffered by opposition victims and police indicates the shooters were trying to stoke tensions on both sides and spark even greater violence, with the goal of toppling Yanukovych"?

So he's saying that he can read out political motives from bullet wounds, and you believe him?

Jesus...

 

[uke2se]

That wasn't an insult, just an observation.

It was an insult, just not a very good one.

So should we wait for truther Muisy's CT investigation before drawing conclusions, and then just draw his conclusion? Why?

It's very difficult to parse your posts, but I take it this means "should we wait for an independent investigation before drawing conclusions?" To that, I can only answer with a resounding "yes". Not that it'll stop you.

 

[Caustic Logic]

"The similarity of bullets wounds suffered by opposition victims and police indicates the shooters were trying to stoke tensions on both sides and spark even greater violence, with the goal of toppling Yanukovych"?

So he's saying that he can read out political motives from bullet wounds, and you believe him?

Jesus...

Reading comprehension. Try again, with. He blames Russia, he's part of the new government. He's on your side. I'm not following that clown.

I agree with both him and Olga B. on all but his Russia part. You see from events how tensions were stoked, it's no friggin' mystery. The bullet wounds/bullets are supposed to prove it was the same people/same guns killing everyone, and stoking the tensions, for some kind of purpose.

 

[uke2se]

Reading comprehension. Try again, with. He blames Russia, he's part of the new government. He's on your side. I'm not following that clown.

And yet you quote him. He's being ridiculous, and you're eating it up.

I agree with both him and Olga B. on all but his Russia part. You see from events how tensions were stoked, it's no friggin' mystery. The bullet wounds/bullets are supposed to prove it was the same people/same guns killing everyone, and stoking the tensions, for some kind of purpose.

So you do agree that one can read political motives from bullet wounds? Do you try to attempt to foretell political elections from cat guts too?

 

[Caustic Logic]

And yet you quote him. He's being ridiculous, and you're eating it up.

I need to explain then. I never said I suspect Putin did it. I said "what if I told you" that. Hypo. You said, it'd be stupid. So then I said, not explained well enough, that's not my theory. Its the theory of the new health minister of Ukraine. You just called his theory stupid, and I agree.

Not on the intentions part - that's pretty clear to everyone but you. Two people besides me and many others, citing them - both of them leading doctors on the Maidan offered the job of health minister of Ukraine - have said this same thing about the same snipers targeting everyone. But now the minister Muisy (Olga turned it down) tries to re-brand that notion, what he might see as a dangerous but unavoidable conclusion. Yes it was a conspiracy by false-flag sniper(s) he says, the evidence points that way. But it was engineered by Russia, so we could overthrow and then they could have a reason to invade us.

He's being ridiculous, and it's another clue.

 

[uke2se]

I need to explain then. I never said I suspect Putin did it. I said "what if I told you" that. Hypo. You said, it'd be stupid. So then I said, not explained well enough, that's not my theory. Its the theory of the new health minister of Ukraine. You just called his theory stupid, and I agree.

Not on the intentions part - that's pretty clear to everyone but you. Two people besides me and many others, citing them - both of them leading doctors on the Maidan offered the job of health minister of Ukraine - have said this same thing about the same snipers targeting everyone. But now the minister Muisy (Olga turned it down) tries to re-brand that notion, what he might see as a dangerous but unavoidable conclusion. Yes it was a conspiracy by false-flag sniper(s) he says, the evidence points that way. But it was engineered by Russia, so we could overthrow and then they could have a reason to invade us.

He's being ridiculous, and it's another clue.

I mean, could someone parse this for me? It just reads as gibberish to me.

Are you still saying that one can read political motives from bullet wounds?

 

[Caustic Logic]

It's all in English.

 

[angrysoba]

"The similarity of bullets wounds suffered by opposition victims and police indicates the shooters were trying to stoke tensions on both sides and spark even greater violence, with the goal of toppling Yanukovych"?

So he's saying that he can read out political motives from bullet wounds, and you believe him?

Jesus...

No, the guy is saying that it looks as if the bullet wounds to protesters and to police were caused by the same shooters, judging by the bullet wounds.

The Interior Minister also thinks that the snipers must have been a non-Ukrainian third force.

 

[uke2se]

No, the guy is saying that it looks as if the bullet wounds to protesters and to police were caused by the same shooters, judging by the bullet wounds.

The Interior Minister also thinks that the snipers must have been a non-Ukrainian third force.

Caused by the same caliber weapon I hope he means. Or has he done a forensic examination?

The snipers we have seen were Berkut.

 

[Checkmite]

It's already known that Yanukovych's government had hired thugs to harass the protesters; it seems to me these would be the first candidates for this alleged "third force" that shot at both protesters and police.

If Fox wants to speculate that the police were shot at to somehow give Russia an excuse to invade(?), then I will speculate too and posit that the police were shot at simply to enrage them and provoke them into a final overwhelming-force crackdown on the protesters, ending the Euromaidan situation and maintaining Yanukovych's government.

 

[angrysoba]

Caused by the same caliber weapon I hope he means. Or has he done a forensic examination?

Presumably:

Musiy, who spent more than two months organizing medical units on Maidan, said that on Feb. 20 roughly 40 civilians and protesters were brought with fatal bullet wounds to the makeshift hospital set up near the square. But he said medics also treated three police officers whose wounds were identical. Forensic evidence, in particular the similarity of the bullet wounds, led him and others to conclude that snipers were targeting both sides of the standoff at Maidan — and that the shootings were intended to generate a wave of revulsion so strong that it would topple Yanukovych and also justify a Russian invasion.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.578576

The snipers we have seen were Berkut.

I don't remember actually seeing any snipers.

 

[angrysoba]

It's already known that Yanukovych's government had hired thugs to harass the protesters; it seems to me these would be the first candidates for this alleged "third force" that shot at both protesters and police.

If Fox wants to speculate that the police were shot at to somehow give Russia an excuse to invade(?), then I will speculate too and posit that the police were shot at simply to enrage them and provoke them into a final overwhelming-force crackdown on the protesters, ending the Euromaidan situation and maintaining Yanukovych's government.

It's an AP article; not Fox.

 

[uke2se]

Presumably:



http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.578576

When I say "forensic", I mean more than simply looking at two bullet holes and concluding that they look similar. I mean actual testing. It seems this guy doesn't.

But let's say this guy is right, and the same shooters inflicted all the wounds, that still doesn't lend credibility to speculation of a third force. It might as well be friendly-fire incidents. We're talking about three cases, correct?

I don't remember actually seeing any snipers.

There's this one who was in all the news footage.

 

[spin0]

Voting fraud secured pro-Russian majority in Crimean parliament
It was just overnight that Crimea requested to be part of Russia, and the Ukrainian peninsula got an unpopular pro-Russian prime minister. How did it happen?

 

[dudalb]

Interesting that some of the Tea Party leaders in the US are taking the Putin line. Tea Party seem to splitting on this issue,with some wanting to bash Obama over being "weak" and the Ron Paul wing taking the PUtin line, and some trying to do both at the same time.....

Because he does not head a Marxist government, and does not the burden of an official policy of Atheism to carry around, he can do something that the Soviets could never dream of doing in the US:Find "Useful Idiots" among the kooky right as well as the kooky left.

 

[WildCat]

[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/Y19KSAv.jpg[/qimg]

[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/oPV7hOS.jpg[/qimg]

Obviously they are using the Buddhist version of the swastika, since we've been assured here the Russians are all peace and love and looking out for the little people and protecting them from fascists.

 

[spin0]

Indeed. And that's probably why those ominous X markings have been appearing on Tatar doors - to better protect them. From unfortunate events such as fires: Bandits burned the house and car Tatar family in Crimea

From 7 to 8 March in the village Ribache Alushta region Crimea unknown torched hotel. As a result, hotel and burned two cars that belonged to representatives of the Tatar community.

The fire completely burnt and destroyed two hotel car WV Tourag and Toyota Camry, transmits Tsenzor.NET citing SpilnoTV .

Guard out into the street and saw a building on fire and the hotel called firefighters tried to extinguish itself, but quickly shut off power supply causing the water pump stopped working.

See also "Tsenzor.NET": Crimean Tatars are trying to intimidate: unknown tagged and organized raid houses in which Muslims live. VIDEO

Firefighters arrived within half an hour when there was nothing to put out. Note that the fire brigade is 800 meters away from the fire. Why firefighters went so long no one explains.

Suspicions regarding the hotel owner makes no comments, saying that this should understand the police and insisting that the Crimean Tatars will not respond to any provocations.

Read also "Tsenzor.NET" Chubarov urged Obama to protect the population of Crimea from possible ethnic cleansing Source: http://censor.net.ua/p274950

Meanwhile Crimean referendum campaing looks like this:

 

[trustbutverify]

Ukraine: Protesters in Crimea greet army with flowers

As the crowd chanted to the soldiers outside “you are our heroes”. Captain Ina Katsonova described the pressure to join the new Russian run force. “But I am a female officer in charge of men so I know about pressure. They tried bribery, offering a higher salary, they said we would get free flats. I told them I am not prepared to sell my country. We are Ukrainians and we will stay with our command.”

This charade is coming apart at the seams.

 

[Caustic Logic]

Caused by the same caliber weapon I hope he means. Or has he done a forensic examination?

The snipers we have seen were Berkut.

Would it surprise you to learn this hotel sniper was unseen inside a window? And that all shooting in that massacre comes from the hotel?

And another one, called a sniper but maybe only with an air gun, shot towards the BBC reporter from the hotel hours later, and he saw a protester, not a Berkut.

It's already known that Yanukovych's government had hired thugs to harass the protesters; it seems to me these would be the first candidates for this alleged "third force" that shot at both protesters and police.

I haven't heard about these hired thugs. Have a link?

If Fox wants to speculate that the police were shot at to somehow give Russia an excuse to invade(?), then I will speculate too and posit that the police were shot at simply to enrage them and provoke them into a final overwhelming-force crackdown on the protesters, ending the Euromaidan situation and maintaining Yanukovych's government.

That's not Fox News, it's AP, and they're passing on the speculation of Ukraine's new wack-job Health Minister. Please try to keep up.

ETA: I gather treating everything I say flippantly and trying to not read or understand any of it seems like the appropriate brush-off. But you just make yourselves look dumb. Angrysoba here shows how you can pay attention and engage stuff realistically. A good and less annoying example to follow.

 

[crescent]

Ukraine: Protesters in Crimea greet army with flowers
.

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