Merged Ukraine erupts in riots and general strike.

[Caustic Logic]

Yup, the nutters are certainly crawling out of the woodwork today.

How many "nutters"? Can you name them? Me. CE a bit. Wow. What's going on? It's Saturday over here. Guess it must be the day we cash our checks from HIM. We can suddenly buy new evidence and logic you have to actively ignore all over again.

 

[geni]

How do you know the reasons if they're anonymous? I'm presuming there are reasons, but I wouldn't claim to know them.

Thats Anonymous with a capital "A". And due to my wikipedia activities I tend to have a pretty good idea as to what such groups are up to through simple information osmosis.

 

[Meed]

Anonymous is not a source I trust, with an agenda I can be clear on. Could be disinformation.

As far as I can tell, Anonymous is not really a source. Anyone could throw on a V for Vendetta mask and post a message or video to the internet claiming to speak for "Anonymous" since Anonymous is... anonymous. It might make more sense to say "I don't trust anonymous sources".

 

[Childlike Empress]

Anonymous is not a source I trust, with an agenda I can be clear on. Could be disinformation. Plus, I somehow can hardly ever trust convenient hacked e-mails, and sometimes (BritAm in Syria) it's clearly right not to.

It's not a thing to build your world view on, but interesting, and the Lithuania connection is rather plausible. As I said, everybody is anonymous including the FSB. You don't have to know their origins in 4chan to copypasta their slogan. You don't even have to be able to tell megabyte from kilobyte.

 

[L.Y.S.]

Uh, because the other Ex Members Of the Soviet Union are afraid that this might just be the start of Putin wanting to recreate the Soviet Empire relabeled "Greater Russia".

This is an unreasonable claim. Even with the Georgian-Ossetian War Russia did not fully invade Georgia and showed some level of restraint. If he wanted to recreate his empire by force he would've done it a long time ago and the west would've done nothing but impose a few sanctions.

 

[Caustic Logic]

Thats Anonymous with a capital "A". And due to my wikipedia activities I tend to have a pretty good idea as to what such groups are up to through simple information osmosis.

Considering that and intervening comments, a more than fair explanation.

It's not a thing to build your world view on, but interesting, and the Lithuania connection is rather plausible. As I said, everybody is anonymous including the FSB. You don't have to know their origins in 4chan to copypasta their slogan. You don't even have to be able to tell megabyte from kilobyte.

The Lithuania stuff could easily just be chalked up to "realistic detail" for anyone who keeps up with the news. Just to be fair, I'll place this claim not too far blow to 50/50 mark. So, not of much interest to me, but well worth looking at, by someone else.

ETA: small lol at mb

 

[geni]

It's not a thing to build your world view on, but interesting, and the Lithuania connection is rather plausible. As I said, everybody is anonymous including the FSB. You don't have to know their origins in 4chan to copypasta their slogan.

No but you do if you want your claim to be Annoymous rather than "Russian government operative" to be taken seriously.

You don't even have to be able to tell megabyte from kilobyte.

The megabytes was a reference to the other supposed stuff from Laurynas Jonavicius. Or did you miss that detail?

As for the headers fairly easy to fake and very trivial for a state level actor. Oddly one of the emails refers to Yanukovych mainting a low profile. Header claims was sent on Dec 7th. Yanukovych was meeting with Putin on the 6th which I wouldn't describe as a low profile activity.

 

[Giz]

I think that's because Obama saw this coming a long way off.

Hopefully. I'm never sure when he does a "reset" stunt, whether he actually believes it (that thugs like Putin will be charmed into going against what they see as their ruthless self interest) or if he is just doing it to placate the naive/dovish wing of his party.

The tricky thing with this now will be trying to get Putin to stop or back down... Putin is riding the tiger of national pride and dismounting could be deadly for him... and he knows it.

 

[dudalb]

Realistically, the Crimea is gone. What we have to do is to make Czar Vladamir pay such a heavy diplomatic and economic price for it that he will lose enthusiasm for any further attempts to bring back the Russian Empire.
Fact is, the basic foreign policy of Czarist Russia and Soviet Russia were pretty much the same..the Soviets were just more sucessful largely because the Communist line was much better for fooling the "Useful Idiots" outside Eastern Europe then "Holy Mother Russia" was.
Real victims might be the Russian people,once again;they seem to have no freaking luck when it comes to government. THe attempt at Democracy right after the fall of the Soviet Union seems to have gone the way of attempt between the March and Octorber Revolutions in 1917.

 

[L.Y.S.]

As a young American who can't remember the Cold War, I can give a damn what Russia does so long as it doesn't extend past the non-Baltic republics of the former Soviet Union.

A policy of containment worked before, it'll work now.

 

[L.Y.S.]

Two more articles about the building rallies in eastern Ukraine.

http://rt.com/news/ukraine-donetsk-protests-referendum-383/

http://rt.com/news/donetsk-kharkov-ukraine-protest-365/

*Warning, the Russian puppets at RT wrote these articles.

 

[trustbutverify]

Realistically, the Crimea is gone. What we have to do is to make Czar Vladamir pay such a heavy diplomatic and economic price for it that he will lose enthusiasm for any further attempts to bring back the Russian Empire.

I agree, but after reading the article I posted further up, I'm not as sure as I was before. Crimea+ may prove to be significantly less hospitable than expected.

Still no sign of fist-shaking rage from the "anti-Imperialists" over the Russian intervention. Oh well.

 

[Caustic Logic]

Just wanted to respond to this one again.

EU, U.S. Rush to Stabilize Ukraine After Ouster
(snip)
The U.S. response to the removal of Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych drove home the delicate balance the White House is seeking to strike as it tries to cement Ukraine's future with the West without provoking a Russian intervention in a country it has long considered a strategic ally.
(snip)
...

As I said, it was worth a try. A rushed try. But there was provocation, and this cement is still wet.

 

[egslim]

Realistically, the Crimea is gone. What we have to do is to make Czar Vladamir pay such a heavy diplomatic and economic price for it that he will lose enthusiasm for any further attempts to bring back the Russian Empire.

The Crimea is gone, because the majority of the local population prefers Russia over the new government in Kiev.

Objectively, the Crimea will benefit more from Russian "imperialism" than Libya benefitted from Western "humanitarian intervention".

The Crimea will be stable, safe and receive a lot of Russian investment. Libya went from a dictatorship to a failed state, and spilled over into Mali.

 

[L.Y.S.]

I agree, but after reading the article I posted further up, I'm not as sure as I was before. Crimea+ may prove to be significantly less hospitable than expected.

Still no sign of fist-shaking rage from the "anti-Imperialists" over the Russian intervention. Oh well.

If I'm not mistaken the new governor of Crimea called for Russia to intervene in the region. Could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure that's what happened.

The Crimea is gone, because the majority of the local population prefers Russia over the new government in Kiev.

Objectively, the Crimea will benefit more from Russian "imperialism" than Libya benefitted from Western "humanitarian intervention".

The Crimea will be stable, safe and receive a lot of Russian investment. Libya went from a dictatorship to a failed state, and spilled over into Mali.

Yep, and Crimea isn't the only region in eastern Ukraine who is more supportive of Moscow than the new regime in Kiev.

 

[angrysoba]

The Crimea is gone, because the majority of the local population prefers Russia over the new government in Kiev.

Yeah, that argument didn't work out too well for the Chechens, did it?

 

[L.Y.S.]

Yeah, that argument didn't work out too well for the Chechens, did it?

The two situations you just alluded to are not even close to being the same.

 

[angrysoba]

The two situations you just alluded to are not even close to being the same.

No, but assuming the principle of self-determination is being applied should it not be applied equally?

Or is the might is right principle being deployed whereby Russia will find it far easier to subdue dissent in Crimea than in Chechnya because of the comparatively lower level of dissent?

 

[timhau]

The Crimea will be stable, safe and receive a lot of Russian investment.

... or maybe it won't. The Tatars in there aren't exactly thrilled about being under Moscow again. If they acquire a significant radical wing, there could be all sorts of unpleasantness.

 

[L.Y.S.]

No, but assuming the principle of self-determination is being applied should it not be applied equally?

Or is the might is right principle being deployed whereby Russia will find it far easier to subdue dissent in Crimea than in Chechnya because of the comparatively lower level of dissent?

If not mistaken, the newly elected governor of Crimea personally asked for the assistance of the Russian military. Don't quite remember anything like that occurring in Chechnya.