Continuation Part Eight: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Sherlock Holmes]

I do know your theory. It holds no water. It's best to go with the evidence, rather than evidenceless assertions. There's been too much of that...

I really wasn't going to reply but....

My theory follows the evidence without trying to distort, manipulate, ignore or overlook the evidence. I do not need a hundred or so decent people to be outright liars, completely inept or utter idiots. I don't need a complete police force to be the way PIP's claim, nor the entire Italian justice system, nor their science labs.

Yes I have a theory, and it is only a theory, but I can admit that without having to do what most the PIP and PGP do. Amanda and Raf are involved, I just do not know the exact extent and neither do you or anyone else. (Of course those involved know, possible a select few others) I hope to find out myself some day, but I'm not holding my breath.

There is way more evidence pointing to guilt than innocence, (Two convictions so far), so who's side doesn't hold the water?

 

[Samson]

I knew videos had been made but not by Amanda's or Raf's team.

If they would make a two minute video showing the current CNN story with the pink bathroom and then show the real picture, move on the impossible window and the Ch. 5 demo and maybe one other factoid meme and then promote it. Having Amanda promote it would give it reach and as I said the other networks would love to smack CNN.

I hope a million new viewers don't get suckered by this possibly deliberate mistake.

 

[Desert Fox]

I have to agree that a few YouTube videos from Amanda or somebody close might be a good idea. IF somebody close to her wants to know, I think I have a good video producer who, if you can convince of her innocence, might give a break on cost.

 

[Desert Fox]

There is way more evidence pointing to guilt than innocence, (Two convictions so far), so who's side doesn't hold the water?

Convictions when there is no real evidence does not show anything but a bad court system.
One hundred convictions based on bad evidence still does not make a person guilty.

 

[kwill]

My theory follows the evidence

Yes I have a theory, and it is only a theory

Amanda and Raf are involved

There is way more evidence pointing to guilt than innocence

(Two convictions so far), so who's side doesn't hold the water?

There is no evidence pointing toward guilt or involvement of any kind. None at all. Whatever you've used to form your theory, it's not evidence. Rudy Guede broke into the villa, got surprised by Meredith, attacked her, and killed her. All of this happened during the first 30 minutes after she got home.

That's what the evidence shows. It's not even a complicated case.

 

[Desert Fox]

There is no evidence pointing toward guilt or involvement of any kind. None at all. Whatever you've used to form your theory, it's not evidence. Rudy Guede broke into the villa, got surprised by Meredith, attacked her, and killed her. All of this happened during the first 30 minutes after she got home.

That's what the evidence shows. It's not even a complicated case.

I don't know what is so hard about it either

 

[GWCarver]

There is way more evidence pointing to guilt than innocence, (Two convictions so far), so who's side doesn't hold the water?

That really doesn't mean much in Italy, where we know they can apparently completely disregard an entire trial if the verdict wasn't "correct".

Check this out - the headline just happened to be on the same page as a link to an article about the Kercher case. 24 years and no justice, especially for the people who were persecuted along the way.

ETA: Here is the 2nd headline:

Defendant’s tears of joy: “At last! The nightmare is over”.
Prosecution wants retrial

http://www.corriere.it/english/14_f...rs-8500bc8e-9fcd-11e3-b156-8d7b053a3bcc.shtml

 

[Bill Williams]

I really wasn't going to reply but....

My theory follows the evidence without trying to distort, manipulate, ignore or overlook the evidence. I do not need a hundred or so decent people to be outright liars, completely inept or utter idiots. I don't need a complete police force to be the way PIP's claim, nor the entire Italian justice system, nor their science labs.
Yes I have a theory, and it is only a theory, but I can admit that without having to do what most the PIP and PGP do. Amanda and Raf are involved, I just do not know the exact extent and neither do you or anyone else. (Of course those involved know, possible a select few others) I hope to find out myself some day, but I'm not holding my breath.

There is way more evidence pointing to guilt than innocence, (Two convictions so far), so who's side doesn't hold the water?

Ok... this is a skeptics forum, afterall.

Your theory is predicated that there never is a case of wrongful conviction.

I have two words for you. Steven Truscott. From this point of view, there's only two possible ways of viewing what happened vis a vis him and Lynne Harper in 1959. He's either completely innocent of her murder, or there was only a paucity of evidence. Either way he should not have been sentenced to death - as witnessed by the 2007 complete exoneration he received from the Province of Ontario in Canada.

Or Ruben Carter. He was convicted not once but twice by full juries.

So let's here the theory. Not the assertion you have one, what's the theory? If you've gone into detail about it, please post the link - to save retyping it.

 

[Bill Williams]

And he thinks Amanda is strange. . . .I think she can fib at least a little

She fibbed about the marijuana use in the cottage, as well as what she knew about Meredith's sexual partners.

Both of which are sure signs of a murderous heart.

 

[Dan O.]

My theory follows the evidence without trying to distort, manipulate, ignore or overlook the evidence. I do not need a hundred or so decent people to be outright liars, completely inept or utter idiots. I don't need a complete police force to be the way PIP's claim, nor the entire Italian justice system, nor their science labs.

Let's take a look at the evidence that you try to distort. How about the bloody footprint trail for starters. You know the one made by Rudy's Nike shoes that he disposed of in Germany. The trail which the prosecution and many of the guilters were claiming showed Rudy walking straight out the front door and therefore could not have locked Meredith's door.

The last time we were discussing this trail, it was your explicit claim that the luminol proves that Rudy did not return to Meredith's room. My counter argument is asking where is the luminol photo of the area by the pink bag at the near end of the hall? We know that there was blood there because we can see a bloody shoeprint with rings and all that connects the prints from the bedroom to the prints in the living room. Without this photo the Luminol survey of the hall is incomplete so it is invalid to make claims of what didn't happen.

 

[Bill Williams]

I really wasn't going to reply but....

My theory follows the evidence without trying to distort, manipulate, ignore or overlook the evidence. I do not need a hundred or so decent people to be outright liars, completely inept or utter idiots. I don't need a complete police force to be the way PIP's claim, nor the entire Italian justice system, nor their science labs.
Yes I have a theory, and it is only a theory, but I can admit that without having to do what most the PIP and PGP do. Amanda and Raf are involved, I just do not know the exact extent and neither do you or anyone else. (Of course those involved know, possible a select few others) I hope to find out myself some day, but I'm not holding my breath.

There is way more evidence pointing to guilt than innocence, (Two convictions so far), so who's side doesn't hold the water?

From what I understand about your views, yes you do need all those things.

You do not think they were involved in the murders at all. Yet, they've been convicted - Massei pointed to bogus DNA evidence with regard to the knife and the bra-hook.

Mignini had a murder they were involved in with regard to day of the dead. The new prosecutor Crini had Sollecito and Knox murdering Meredith because Meredith got uncharacteristically bitchy about someone else's toilet at the other end of the cottage. NO ONE thinks of Meredith that way, yet Crini advanced it as a motive for her death.

You most certainly do believe in all those things.

 

[Samson]

.... and to be boringly repetitive, Raffaele had six months in solitary to mull this over - before he was charged. I don't think it was out of any sense of nobleness... my view is that he does not know how to lie.

He tried it once with the "pricking the finger" thing, and that was a dreadful excuse for lying.

It's not in his DNA. I know, because that was part of Stefanoni's report about the bra-clasp hook. There were four profiles found, all male-haplotypes - two of them were liars, two weren't. It's in the DNA.

I have to go now to get a cite for Grinder. He'll be all over me like a cheap suit for this assertion.

Bill, if you are suffering withdrawal symptoms from Yummi he has just posted a very very long piece on Bongiorno and Raffaele on tjmk, what seems a post modern deconstruction of the man and his trial. I read most of it, very Italian, very incomprehensible, but I think I know what he is trying to say.

 

[Desert Fox]

She fibbed about the marijuana use in the cottage, as well as what she knew about Meredith's sexual partners.

Both of which are sure signs of a murderous heart.

Missed the part about sexual partners but remembering reading about the marijuana use.

If you don't mind an aside. Jen Peeple, the president of Atheist Community of Austin as well as co host of Atheist Experience and Godless Bitches, is a Lesbian and served as an officer in the US Army. Being a lesbian had to be kept secret because she could be kicked out for it. As such, even though the was nothing wrong with it, the situation is a potential security risk. I see the smoking of pot as a similar situation.

 

[kwill]

I don't know what is so hard about it either

Right? It's obvious that Rudy had motive, means, and opportunity. He left all the forensic evidence an investigator could ever want.

A & R had no motive, no means, and no opportunity. They were watching some dumb Manga cartoon while Rudy was murdering Meredith. They had no history of violence, sexual deviance, or burglary. They're completely innocent, which is why there's no evidence to connect them with what happened.

The only reason anybody has ever heard of A & R is that they had the bad luck to draw the attention of the police on the day the body was discovered, for reasons that have nothing to do with the crime. Every single thing that's happened since then is just one long & fruitless effort to find reasons to convict them. It's like a field of rabbit holes, none of which lead to anything but more rabbit holes.

They weren't there.

 

[Desert Fox]

Right? It's obvious that Rudy had motive, means, and opportunity. He left all the forensic evidence an investigator could ever want.

A & R had no motive, no means, and no opportunity. They were watching some dumb Manga cartoon while Rudy was murdering Meredith. They had no history of violence, sexual deviance, or burglary. They're completely innocent, which is why there's no evidence to connect them with what happened.

The only reason anybody has ever heard of A & R is that they had the bad luck to draw the attention of the police on the day the body was discovered, for reasons that have nothing to do with the crime. Every single thing that's happened since then is just one long & fruitless effort to find reasons to convict them. It's like a field of rabbit holes, none of which lead to anything but more rabbit holes.

They weren't there.

Consider this. . . .
Say Meredeth stayed with her friends a bit longer.
Say that Patrick called Amanda into work after all even though not busy.
After spending time with Raffaele, she likely would not have wanted to go to work smelling of sex.
As such, she runs home to shower and change.
Instead of Meredeth surprising him, Amanda surprises him.
Amanda gets raped and murdered instead of Meredeth.
All just the luck of how things work out.

 

[Bill Williams]

Missed the part about sexual partners but remembering reading about the marijuana use.

If you don't mind an aside. Jen Peeple, the president of Atheist Community of Austin as well as co host of Atheist Experience and Godless Bitches, is a Lesbian and served as an officer in the US Army. Being a lesbian had to be kept secret because she could be kicked out for it. As such, even though the was nothing wrong with it, the situation is a potential security risk. I see the smoking of pot as a similar situation.

The Canadian military did a security review in the 1960s on all those issues, and found none.

 

[Desert Fox]

The Canadian military did a security review in the 1960s on all those issues, and found none.

It is more a case where the US military was creating their own security concern.
All they would have to have done is drop the ban on homosexuality and security concerns would be gone.

 

[kwill]

Consider this. . . .
Say Meredeth stayed with her friends a bit longer.
Say that Patrick called Amanda into work after all even though not busy.
After spending time with Raffaele, she likely would not have wanted to go to work smelling of sex.
As such, she runs home to shower and change.
Instead of Meredeth surprising him, Amanda surprises him.
Amanda gets raped and murdered instead of Meredeth.
All just the luck of how things work out.

Or, Meredith and her friends realize there's no school the next day. They hang out for another hour. Amanda and Raffaele change nothing. Meredith gets home to find the place has been burglarized. Her rent money's gone, and so are the laptops. Rudy never gets caught.

Or, the murder happens, but Rudy flushes that toilet and Amanda, not being freaked out by seeing **** left unflushed, goes off to Gubbio with Raffaele. Filomena discovers the break in.

There are lots of other ways it could have played out. None of this had to happen -- not to Meredith, or Amanda, or Raffaele.

 

[Desert Fox]

Or, Meredith and her friends realize there's no school the next day. They hang out for another hour. Amanda and Raffaele change nothing. Meredith gets home to find the place has been burglarized. Her rent money's gone, and so are the laptops. Rudy never gets caught.

Err, I suspect that sometime Ruby will get caught and very likely will stab the person and (if female) rape them. I think he was a ticking time bomb. I am afraid for females around him once he does get out.

 

[kwill]

Err, I suspect that sometime Ruby will get caught and very likely will stab the person and (if female) rape them. I think he was a ticking time bomb. I am afraid for females around him once he does get out.

I meant for this break in. If it had just been a burglary, he'd have spent the cash and found a way to sell the computers.

But obviously he was capable of murder, and it was just a matter of time. Still is.