Continuation Part Eight: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Desert Fox]

What are the odds the current Italian administration will be in power in 12 months?

First Republic: 1946-1994
There have been frequent government turnovers since 1945, indeed there have been 61 governments in this time

No matter what, the US is likely to at least drag its heels while trying to talk Italy out of extradition. Meaning what is going to be the positions of the next five years or so.

 

[Diocletus]

The Cat's Blood

Oh, wow. Finally, photos of the cat's blood. Man, do cats bleed a lot, and they must run all around the place while they're bleeding.

Interesting to finally see the spot on the lightswitch that the cat left when he was turning on the lights. I wish the corresponding egrams hadn't been suppressed. I would like to see that cat's human DNA profile.

https://www.facebook.com/sara.achille/posts/611043818949036

 

[Grinder]

She made a $562 deposit that weekend, and Chris didn't know exactly what it was. He thought it might have been a final check from work in Seattle that had been mailed to her. I am not about to waste her time by asking about it now.

With all due, I don't think that it would be a waste of time. Three months is a long time to wait for a check, but if that's the case it should be easy to prove as the company would have had the records well after she was charged.

I don't accept the attitude of you and Mary that she should live her life as she desires without consideration to her situation.

Though not fan of the analogy, to me this is like telling a person with a serious disease to ignore advised diet and just eat what you want.

How much time and effort, really, is she supposed to spend against that kind of stupidity? It doesn't matter how clear her explanation is or how irrelevant the subject is. They will find some way to put a guilty spin on it, and if they can't, they will ignore it and move on to something else. Meanwhile it is no part of the legal case. It never came up in the original trial, and not even Crini could make anything of it.

I hope she lives her life as fully as possible while dealing with this, instead of letting it consume her.

Highlight - As much time as it takes.

I think until this is resolved she needs to embrace the case and win.

You have to play the hand you're dealt. Unfortunately there are no redeals in life.

 

[GWCarver]

Thanks, yes I did. I make instructional content for a living (in neuroscience mostly) & these lists of times were just crying out to be placed side by side.

Still waiting for anybody who thinks they're guilty to name the time of death.

Great job, and I really hope Amanda and Raffaele see your timeline and use it to defend themselves. The PGP have always treated timelines like kryptonite, and your simple but elegant creation shows us why - they have no answer for it, which should make it the defense's best weapon.

 

[anglolawyer]

With all due, I don't think that it would be a waste of time. Three months is a long time to wait for a check, but if that's the case it should be easy to prove as the company would have had the records well after she was charged.

I don't accept the attitude of you and Mary that she should live her life as she desires without consideration to her situation.

Though not fan of the analogy, to me this is like telling a person with a serious disease to ignore advised diet and just eat what you want.




Highlight - As much time as it takes.

I think until this is resolved she needs to embrace the case and win.

You have to play the hand you're dealt. Unfortunately there are no redeals in life.

Amen. She has to fight as hard as they are, if not harder.

 

[Grinder]

Really? On what basis do you say that?

Because the stuff I read there was similar or the same IIRC. I was just giving you a link as I thought you were interested. What's the problem?

 

[Diocletus]

Because the stuff I read there was similar or the same IIRC. I was just giving you a link as I thought you were interested. What's the problem?

You seemed pretty certain that the guy was pulling his stuff off of some internet site. I was skeptical of your certainty.

 

[Desert Fox]

With all due, I don't think that it would be a waste of time. Three months is a long time to wait for a check, but if that's the case it should be easy to prove as the company would have had the records well after she was charged.

Has there been any official attack against her as far as the check / money? If there only has been internet speculation, not sure what the need for explain is.

One item that three months could easily be is the check from her deposit on her previous apartment.

I don't accept the attitude of you and Mary that she should live her life as she desires without consideration to her situation.

I am not sure that anything she can do with the minute details that will actually help in any extradition requests.

If she is going to be railroaded and sent to Italy, might be best for her to live the next few years in the US as best she can because she will not be back out until she is my age.

Now, I will say that I am 45 years old and feel more alive than I have when I was younger

You have to play the hand you're dealt. Unfortunately there are no redeals in life.

I agree but you have been ground by the legal system for the last six years

 

[AmyStrange]

More speculative psychological crap

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I wonder for how many though it is not really a hatred for Amanda Knox but a hatred for Americans in general. She just is the unfortunate target for that anger and hatred.

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Amanda is just a substitute for what they really hate, which sometimes is just themselves... or Americans... or an independent woman... or just women in general... etc...

I've tried to explain this before using Evelyn's son as one example.

Sometimes it's not a hatred for something else, but a hatred for themselves that they expel by continuously spouting out hate like a volcano spouts out lava and gases,

The need to see oneself in a favorable light is a very powerful psychological need that eclipses almost all other needs... almost... sometimes,

d

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[Grinder]

You seemed pretty certain that the guy was pulling his stuff off of some internet site. I was skeptical of your certainty.

Here is a little from the site. I don't see a big difference from an unnamed lawyer or a website. Once again I thought you were interested in the line of thought and I had looked at the site earlier.

Many people who don’t care for our constitution or are totally ignorant of it are peddling this notion that treaties will trump the constitution. It is true that the constitution states in what has become known as the “Supremacy Clause” that:

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the constitution or laws of any state to the contrary notwithstanding.

However, just like laws that the federal level passes, treaties must be made: “in pursuance” of the Constitution’s delegated powers as well. To do otherwise is a serious usurpation of the very nature of our Constitutional Republic. To allow foreign law to trump the Supreme Law of the Land leaves the people of this nation in a precarious situation at best with their liberties.​

The above came from here

 

[Desert Fox]

Amanda is just a substitute for what they really hate, which sometimes is just themselves... or Americans... or an independent woman... or just women in general... etc...

I've tried to explain this before using Evelyn's son as one example.

Sometimes it's not a hatred for something else, but a hatred for themselves that they expel by continuously spouting out hate like a volcano spouts out lava and gases,

The need to see oneself in a favorable light is a very powerful psychological need that eclipses almost all other needs... almost... sometimes,

I don't know if you are right or wrong. . . .I will however say that this is not the motivation for Meredeth's family.

They see their daughter, getting more saintly with every memory, brutally murdered. Like the case with the Norfolk Four and the parents of Michelle Moore-Bosko, they just latched on

I do see some attacks of blame the black guy from some people though. In many ways, it would help their case if he was white instead of black.

 

[Grinder]

Has there been any official attack against her as far as the check / money? If there only has been internet speculation, not sure what the need for explain is.

I don't remember for sure but the noise ticket was brought up by Mignini at the end of the first trial by reading the DM story into the record. Given that in Italy the judges may read anything they want it seem the time would be prudently spent producing the bank records as it would only be for one week of activity at most.

One item that three months could easily be is the check from her deposit on her previous apartment.

We shouldn't need to speculate.

I am not sure that anything she can do with the minute details that will actually help in any extradition requests.

If she is going to be railroaded and sent to Italy, might be best for her to live the next few years in the US as best she can because she will not be back out until she is my age.

Now, I will say that I am 45 years old and feel more alive than I have when I was younger

Devil in details. If she put in cash from an unknown source that is more than a little detail. As I've made clear, I would put a lot of effort into clearing my name if I were her.

I would have produced a video for the appeal court and run it on the web and on TV if possible. Someone suggested that elements of it could be shown on a wall in Perugia. I would have found a way to show the entry into the cottage by the climber and the sound tests at Nara's. If a video of Curatolo exists at the Hellmann trial I'd show that as well.

 

[Diocletus]

Here is a little from the site. I don't see a big difference from an unnamed lawyer or a website. Once again I thought you were interested in the line of thought and I had looked at the site earlier.

Many people who don’t care for our constitution or are totally ignorant of it are peddling this notion that treaties will trump the constitution. It is true that the constitution states in what has become known as the “Supremacy Clause” that:

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the constitution or laws of any state to the contrary notwithstanding.

However, just like laws that the federal level passes, treaties must be made: “in pursuance” of the Constitution’s delegated powers as well. To do otherwise is a serious usurpation of the very nature of our Constitutional Republic. To allow foreign law to trump the Supreme Law of the Land leaves the people of this nation in a precarious situation at best with their liberties.​

The above came from here

Yes, thank you. This makes sense.

I'm waiting for Bond v. US. Might be out in the next few months.

 

[Planigale]

OK I maybe a bit naive. I went to visit PMF it is really a bit unpleasant, there seems to be a lot of ad hominem and what I recognise as bullying type comments of the type one would expect school girls to make. I had not realised that some of you were subject to such unpleasantry. I resolve to be nicer to those I disagree with.

 

[Desert Fox]

I don't remember for sure but the noise ticket was brought up by Mignini at the end of the first trial by reading the DM story into the record. Given that in Italy the judges may read anything they want it seem the time would be prudently spent producing the bank records as it would only be for one week of activity at most.

We shouldn't need to speculate.

Devil in details. If she put in cash from an unknown source that is more than a little detail. As I've made clear, I would put a lot of effort into clearing my name if I were her.

Why do "We" matter. Can we assume that she does not have records of the transaction ready to use if needed.

I would have produced a video for the appeal court and run it on the web and on TV if possible. Someone suggested that elements of it could be shown on a wall in Perugia. I would have found a way to show the entry into the cottage by the climber and the sound tests at Nara's. If a video of Curatolo exists at the Hellmann trial I'd show that as well.

If she needs a video producer, I actually have a recommendation for her. Seth Andrews is a non believer, is known to take up causes both for believers and non believers, and seems to be genuinely a really nice guy.

 

[AmyStrange]

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I don't know if you are right or wrong. . . .I will however say that this is not the motivation for Meredeth's family.

They see their daughter, getting more saintly with every memory, brutally murdered. Like the case with the Norfolk Four and the parents of Michelle Moore-Bosko, they just latched on

I do see some attacks of blame the black guy from some people though. In many ways, it would help their case if he was white instead of black.

-

Psychology is not an exact science, no matter how many people try to say it is, so I could be wrong. That's why I call it speculative psychological crap. Using my understanding of psychology has helped me many times to overcome an almost crippling hate and anger towards people in general. I used to be really bad.

As far as Meredith's parents are concerned, hating Amanda IS weird, but at the same time I don't actually think it is hate that they feel for Amanda as much as an anger based on what the Italian Justice System (IJS) believes happened. Amanda probably looks creepy to them too.

They have no control over what the IJS does and are blind to anything that doesn't justify their anger, which is really the only thing they have control over, although I don't believe they really do have much control over that, at least not as much as they think they have.

They trust the IJS because it justifies their anger, and if the IJS is wrong... It's scary she it,

d

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[Paninaro]

About the time of the Hellman verdict I recounted the details to a friend of mine who is a nuclear medicine technician in a big hospital, and who does these tests as part of her daily work. She said, yes, sometimes you can just see everything sitting there and going nowhere, for hours. But these people have something seriously wrong with them.

A young woman with no clinical history of a gastric disorder? Ridiculous.

Another pathologist I spoke to looked completely pole-axed when I told her of the Massei conclusion. She was also somewhat surprised that nothing had moved on by the time Meredith returned home, and gave her opinion that even half past nine was pushing the envelope.
Rolfe.

Doesn't the fact that already that is pushing the envelope weaken the argument that the stomach content that not yet had passed into the duodenum shows that Kercher must have died shortly after her return home?

Couldn't that instead increase the likelihood that there maybe was something wrong with Dr.Lallis autopsy, maybe in the way that is described in the Massei report?

 

[AmyStrange]

Not psychologically feasible

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Thanks, yes I did. I make instructional content for a living (in neuroscience mostly) & these lists of times were just crying out to be placed side by side.

Still waiting for anybody who thinks they're guilty to name the time of death.

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Although I don't think this is psychologically feasible, here's a guilt timeline for you:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=9854123#post9854123

d

ETA although psychologically improbable, I believe it covers all the points in your timeline Kwill. Also, a timeline is not "real" evidence that proves or disproves guilt. It's really a waste of time to ask GUMPers for one, in my opinion.
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[Desert Fox]

Psychology is not an exact science, no matter how many people try to say it is, so I could be wrong. That's why I call it speculative psychological crap. Using my understanding of psychology has helped me many times to overcome an almost crippling hate and anger towards people in general. I used to be really bad.

As far as Meredith's parents are concerned, hating Amanda IS weird, but at the same time I don't actually think it is hate that they feel for Amanda as much as an anger based on what the Italian Justice System (IJS) believes happened. Amanda probably looks creepy to them too.

They have no control over what the IJS does and are blind to anything that doesn't justify their anger, which is really the only thing they have control over, although I don't believe they really do have much control over that, at least not as much as they think they have.

They trust the IJS because it justifies their anger, and if the IJS is wrong... It's scary she it,

Many people, once they make their mind up, have extreme trouble changing their minds. Smarter people are better at actually coming up with convoluted logic than less intelligent people as well.

As skeptics though, we are suppose to be willing to change our minds. That is one item that disturbs be about the few pro guilt posters on this forum. Their arguments are as poor as anybody who is anti-vaxer or pro homeopathy. What is happening with their skeptical thinking?

If you gave me some solid evidence of Amanda's guilt, I would change my mind.

 

[Caper]

I asked earlier and did not receive a response... Or at least one I can find. What is the story of the RS computer activity at 9:26pm? How is it known?