Wildcat, it's a revolution now? The kind seeking total government overthrow? Yikes. That could get bloody. The reason for it is that somehow some of the rioters got shot as well as police?*
Looks like revolution to me, and they are demanding that the leadership has to go.
It will get real interesting if Yanukovych orders the military into action, he may discover that half or more of them decide to fight for the other side.
You presume incorrectly that freedom of expression, freedom of the press, and the political process is free. Those have been whittled away steadily over the last few years in Ukraine.
I bet you believe that Iraqis could have voted out Saddam.
Looks like revolution to me, and they are demanding that the leadership has to go.
It will get real interesting if Yanukovych orders the military into action, he may discover that half or more of them decide to fight for the other side.
You have to get better weapons to convince the army to defect, compared to the police. That is, if defection is something you do after capture, as I suspect. Looking at the assault and capture footage, I don't see why police would voluntarily say "those guys are so cool I have to risk the law to go join them."
You have to get better weapons to convince the army to defect, compared to the police. That is, if defection is something you do after capture, as I suspect. Looking at the assault and capture footage, I don't see why police would voluntarily say "those guys are so cool I have to risk the law to go join them."
"A November poll showed that 45 percent of Ukrainians wanted to integrate with the European Union; 14 percent favored a Russian-led trade union." - from a WaPo story.
Not a good ratio for those wishing to be toadies of Putin.
Yeah, I caught that and noted it. And the cylinder is pulled from him - some comms device, I guess. That was so weird I wouldn't believe it unless my brain actually saw it, which it did for a bit.
Sure, a year from now. It's evident they don't want to wait.
On the other hand, it seems that enough of the non-Party-of-Regions members of parliament were in session yesterday and today (joined by a couple dozen MP's who left that party as a result of the president's response to the crisis) to pass some interesting laws. Among them: amnesty for all protesters, and one law prohibiting military or police action against the demonstrators in Kiev. It is my understanding that they have also begun impeachment proceedings.
There are reports that Yanukovych has fled the city of Kiev for Kharkiv, where he supposedly has a more supportive political base.
ETA: It is perhaps in error to assert that more or bigger protests are being held in western states where there are "more neo-Nazi's". The largest protest by far has been in Kiev, and Kiev is centrally-located. If there are indeed larger protests going on in western provinces than eastern ones, it may just as well be a function of distance from the Russian border, as I'm sure a map of the size of Russian-speaking population probably follows a like pattern.
Still, there are definitely protests happening in eastern provinces. Here is one, for instance, in Zaporizhia:
I don't want to wait. I want Obama out now. Can I riot, kill cops, secede or start a war? No. Because I live in <s>a free country with elections</s> ... I live in a country that's not pro-Russia? Anyway, for some reason, it's cool over there but not in my country or yours.
ETA: It is perhaps in error to assert that more or bigger protests are being held in western states where there are "more neo-Nazi's". The largest protest by far has been in Kiev, and Kiev is centrally-located.
Perhaps, perhaps not. I think not. Compare to this more instructive map of 2010 election results. Kyiv is surrounded by moderately and strongly pro-Timoshenko districts, and the closest edge of clear Yanukovich terroitory is 1/3 the country away.
That plus the capitol being what it is, shouldn't be too hard to bus in a few thousand people from further west.
Sure, a year from now. It's evident they don't want to wait.
On the other hand, it seems that enough of the non-Party-of-Regions members of parliament were in session yesterday and today (joined by a couple dozen MP's who left that party as a result of the president's response to the crisis) to pass some interesting laws. Among them: amnesty for all protesters, and one law prohibiting military or police action against the demonstrators in Kiev. It is my understanding that they have also begun impeachment proceedings.
There are reports that Yanukovych has fled the city of Kiev for Kharkiv, where he supposedly has a more supportive political base.
ETA: It is perhaps in error to assert that more or bigger protests are being held in western states where there are "more neo-Nazi's". The largest protest by far has been in Kiev, and Kiev is centrally-located. If there are indeed larger protests going on in western provinces than eastern ones, it may just as well be a function of distance from the Russian border, as I'm sure a map of the size of Russian-speaking population probably follows a like pattern.
Still, there are definitely protests happening in eastern provinces. Here is one, for instance, in Zaporizhia:
There has already been concessions to hold elections no later than December. The 2004 constitution has been restored. I'm not seeing what else the protestors are whining about. The clashes in the eastern provinces are smaller in comparison to the western clashes. It is understood that Kiev is located in Western Ukraine. Kharkov is the old Pro-Russian Soviet Capital of Ukraine. I suspect that this will be the new capital for a new Eastern Ukraine.
I don't want to wait. I want Obama out now. Can I riot, kill cops, secede or start a war? No. Because I live in <s>a free country with elections</s> ... I live in a country that's not pro-Russia? Anyway, for some reason, it's cool over there but not in my country or yours.
ETA: It is perhaps in error to assert that more or bigger protests are being held in western states where there are "more neo-Nazi's". The largest protest by far has been in Kiev, and Kiev is centrally-located. If there are indeed larger protests going on in western provinces than eastern ones, it may just as well be a function of distance from the Russian border, as I'm sure a map of the size of Russian-speaking population probably follows a like pattern.
Still, there are definitely protests happening in eastern provinces. Here is one, for instance, in Zaporizhia:
That's because many of the militants in Kiew are not from town but came from all over the country, predominantly from the western region around Lviv. They have been on tour also. There was at least one incident in Charkow weeks ago where bus loads of "demonstrators" arrived and tried to take over state buildings. They failed because the local population showed them the door.
Clearly not JUST shilling, he'd have to say. But no, it showed no such thing.
It shows policemen around a fire that has been burning for at least a few seconds prior to video being shot. No evidence it was a firebomb. No indication of where the fire came from.
I saw a throwing motion and heard a clink. Something glass. I saw policemen backing up some, as protesters push them back and throw burning stuff at them (those, not cocktails). I see some of the fire - burning for a few frames (not seconds I should hope) before the camera pans there - is exactly in their midst, as if it's on them/they are on fire. It moves as they move, and turns quickly to fog as someone hits them with an extinquisher.
Anyway, this should help, for those with slow video cards, or whatever the problem is. This is some method acting, if so. After reviewing, at least one cop, maybe more, remains seriously on fire for about nine seconds and was probably seriously burned. You can see flailing arms, and I think you can hear at least one guy really screaming.
40 minutes of video here of police snipers picking off many protestors, this one is pretty bloody so you've been warned. Starts getting bad around the 10 minute mark.
40 minutes of video here of police snipers picking off many protestors, this one is pretty bloody so you've been warned. Starts getting bad around the 10 minute mark.
Sounds like nothing can justify it. I'd give that a crack, but I have a ridiculous computer that won't let me see it ATM, old or new player.
No such 10:00 plus video on Youtube. By title, Shocking video shows snipers picking off protesters (2:16) might be snippet? No, people talking about having been shot at. A metal shield is shown, alarmed activists showing how the snipers, with some powerful rounds, had punched right through, and left blood, on the metal wound. As Wayne Courts noted there and I agreed and added to, those look more like pick-axe punctures. A bit square-sided for bullet holes. And the added fingernail polish, I think - about as good a shade as you can find, I suppose.
Not to make light, but there seems to be some fakery. But certainly in other areas, where people are getting shot dead, that's sounding pretty real.
No such 10:00 plus video on Youtube. By title, Shocking video shows snipers picking off protesters (2:16) might be snippet? No, people talking about having been shot at. A metal shield is shown, alarmed activists showing how the snipers, with some powerful rounds, had punched right through, and left blood, on the metal wound. As Wayne Courts noted there and I agreed and added to, those look more like pick-axe punctures. A bit square-sided for bullet holes. And the added fingernail polish, I think - about as good a shade as you can find, I suppose.
It's a different video than the one on youtube, and people are clearly getting shot on camera in the liveleak video. And there are more bodies than I care to count.
I agree the youtube video of "bullet holes" do not look like bullet holes to me, they look more like holes made to look through while holding a shield in front of your face. There is one round hole however that could be a bullet hole. Perhaps the cameraman was focusing on the wrong hole?
As Wayne Courts noted there and I agreed and added to, those look more like pick-axe punctures. A bit square-sided for bullet holes. And the added fingernail polish, I think - about as good a shade as you can find, I suppose.
sounding prNot to make light, but there seems to be some fakery. But certainly in other areas, where people are getting shot dead, that'setty real.
Because despite the streets being literally filled with blood, what they need to do is put some nail fingernail polish on a riot-shield. That'll convince the world.
Because despite the streets being literally filled with blood, what they need to do is put some nail fingernail polish on a riot-shield. That'll convince the world.
What do you see, in that video? I go video by video.
I have "my people" looking into this real one. Maybe they'll find alternate links, extract stills or clips, etc. and I'll see about it as I can. I'm guessing bad people are to blame. I'm not so sure which kind.
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