Why would an intelligent designer use mass extinctions?

[dlorde]

If a reasonably well-informed person looked at what we currently know about the brain and consciousness, what would they find?

That consciousness might be independent of the brain:

Evidence - none; despite decades of attempts to detect or demonstrate it.

Plausible suggestions for models - none; it appears not to be supportable within the known rules governing the universe.

That consciousness is dependent on the brain:

Evidence: a mountain of circumstantial evidence; multiple independent lines indicate: consciousness evolved as a function of the brain, develops as a neonate matures, is always associated with an active brain, degrades with disease of the brain, shows specific impairment with specific damage to the brain, can be modified in specific ways by specific chemical or electrical stimulation or suppression of brain activity, and becomes undetectable objectively and subjectively when a certain kind of brain activity is disrupted. Becomes permanently undetectable when brain activity ceases permanently.

Plausible suggestions for models: many, all with a common basis in neurophysiology, all within the known rules governing the universe.

I would suggest that this balance of evidence makes it evident beyond reasonable doubt that consciousness is a product of brain activity.

The alternative would seem as reasonable as suggesting my Excel spreadsheet continues calculating my financial status even after my PC is switched off, dismantled and scrapped.

 

[dlorde]

... Regardless, I now know that it is best to avoid any thread with Navigator's "contributions". YMMV.

I know how you feel - but you could just avoid Navigator's contributions, rather than shun the entire thread.

 

[aggle-rithm]

The assumption is both that ID cannot make mistakes and that this universe was a mistake on the part of the Grand Old Designer.

We're living in a practice universe.

The REAL universe is over there. -->

...

HA!

Made you look.

 

[aggle-rithm]

The thing about the brain is that it is basically a biological machine.
A mechanical machine created by a bio-brain can be left to its own devices and still not create consciousness for itself.

...yet.

 

[I Ratant]

I know how you feel - but you could just avoid Navigator's contributions, rather than shun the entire thread.

.
I'd go for a Hummer/Navigator thread... That would be...... uhhh... yeah..

 

[Correa Neto]

We're living in a practice universe.

The REAL universe is over there. -->

...

HA!

Made you look.

At least one science fiction book is similar to this.

 

[bruto]

At least one science fiction book is similar to this.

Substitute "world" for "universe" perhaps, and you will find yourself in the company of a fair number of gnostics.

 

[smartcooky]

.....organic brains which are able to create such amazing things cannot create computers which are able to simulate consciousness......

....YET!!

IMO, conciousness is more "self-awareness" than anything else. I have no doubt that if computer technology stays its current course, its only a matter of time; a short amount of time, before computers with AI will also become self aware, and will exhibit all the attributes of conciousness. Its down to memory size, processing speed and program complexity, and the limits of possibility in all three are increasing almost on a daily basis.


PS: for a good sci-fi read on this topic, try "The Two Faces of Tomorrow" by James Patrick Hogan. Its a bit predictable in places, but I liked his hard technology style.

 

[bruto]

Why would our inability to create something mechanically have relevance to its outliving us? Is there a connection other than just saying it?

 

[pakeha]

I left off reading the thread some time ago, and as I was catching up this morning I found a post that intrigued me.

It is the occult view that the universe is created as a realm of experience, and God put the whole thing into motion as a perfect plan for the evolution of the immortal spirits of his children through countless incarnations. God does not interfere in the process because it is flawlessly continuing to its intended conclusion. Which is the enlightenment of all souls.There are many planets we incarnate on and we do not incarnate there until the conditions are right for us. Lesser animals are evolving toward their own perfection, and the dinosaurs did not die out, they simply moved to another planet to continue their evolution, and some of them have evolved into birds on this planet. So mass extinctions are just natural events that do not impede spiritual evolution.

Is it my pre-coffee daze, or does that more or less sum up the Mormon faith?

 

[smartcooky]

I left off reading the thread some time ago, and as I was catching up this morning I found a post that intrigued me.

Originally Posted by Scorpion
It is the occult view that the universe is created as a realm of experience, and God put the whole thing into motion as a perfect plan for the evolution of the immortal spirits of his children through countless incarnations. God does not interfere in the process because it is flawlessly continuing to its intended conclusion. Which is the enlightenment of all souls.There are many planets we incarnate on and we do not incarnate there until the conditions are right for us. Lesser animals are evolving toward their own perfection, and the dinosaurs did not die out, they simply moved to another planet to continue their evolution, and some of them have evolved into birds on this planet. So mass extinctions are just natural events that do not impede spiritual evolution.

Is it my pre-coffee daze, or does that more or less sum up the Mormon faith?

But for the "God" bits, it sounds more like Buddhism to me!

 

[bruto]

I know how you feel - but you could just avoid Navigator's contributions, rather than shun the entire thread.

I have many problems with Navigator's point of view, and more with his writing style, but at the same time he strikes me as somewhat interesting. He often starts off either right or nearly right about issues, then sprials off into space. He claims to be an agnostic, but it seems as if a position of doubting puts him in the position of being unable to deny anything at all. As soon as a possibility is broached, no matter how lacking in evidence, it must be added to the list of things that can be doubted but not denied, evaluated not dismissed. Things that we have no reason to believe exist must be worked through. Even nonexistence seems not to be immune from analysis.

Navigator seems to fear that he'll come to the end of his life having skipped something important. I, on the other hand, fear that I'll come to the end of my life having spent too much time thinking about other people's bogus ideas and too little cleaning my plate.

 

[pakeha]

But for the "God" bits, it sounds more like Buddhism to me!

I can see your point, but here at the JREF we've been treated to quite a walk about focusing on Mormon beliefs and apparently there's a long chain of incarnations leading to godhood with one's very own planet to rule.
In any case, I want to know why if Navigator's point is true, there were mass extinction events before homo sapiens sapiens entered the scene but none after.

 

[Scorpion]

I left off reading the thread some time ago, and as I was catching up this morning I found a post that intrigued me.




Is it my pre-coffee daze, or does that more or less sum up the Mormon faith?

I take my views from years of listening to trance lectures by spiritualist mediums. The likes of Ursula Roberts, Grace Cook, and Ivy Northage.
I think all these mediums are now dead, but their teachings can be found on the internet.

 

[Scorpion]

....YET!!

IMO, conciousness is more "self-awareness" than anything else. I have no doubt that if computer technology stays its current course, its only a matter of time; a short amount of time, before computers with AI will also become self aware, and will exhibit all the attributes of conciousness. Its down to memory size, processing speed and program complexity, and the limits of possibility in all three are increasing almost on a daily basis.

It is my view that computers will never be able to do anything more than add up from 0 to 1. Everything else they do is an illusion created by the programmer. Computers will not become concious because they lack an immortal soul and we are concious because we have one. The spirit is just using the brain and it is my experience we do survive the death of the body.

 

[Myriad]

But for the "God" bits, it sounds more like Buddhism to me!

Not coincidentally, it also sounds like hermeticism (Golden Dawn, OTO, etc., and the reason why every adventure movie set in late 19th century London features a secret cult that dresses up in silly ancient Egyptian costumes), Freemasonry, and (with some terminology substitutions) Scientology.

Take eastern reincarnation narratives, combine with Judeo-Christian monotheism, and steep them in the prevailing progress narratives of the industrial era. Voila: everyone's now striving toward inevitable eventual perfection over multiple lifetimes. Mix liberally to taste with your choice of miscellaneous woo, ancient or modern (astrology, quabalah, alchemy, UFOs, psychic powers, or whatever).

Respectfully,
Myriad

 

[tsig]

It is my view that computers will never be able to do anything more than add up from 0 to 1. Everything else they do is an illusion created by the programmer. Computers will not become concious because they lack an immortal soul and we are concious because we have one. The spirit is just using the brain and it is my experience we do survive the death of the body.

Did this spirit always exist?

 

[tsig]

It is my view that computers will never be able to do anything more than add up from 0 to 1. Everything else they do is an illusion created by the programmer. Computers will not become concious because they lack an immortal soul and we are concious because we have one. The spirit is just using the brain and it is my experience we do survive the death of the body.

You have died?

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

You have died?

Haven't we all?

 

[Scorpion]

Did this spirit always exist?

Spiritualism teaches that God has always existed, and we are all a part of him, therefore the answer is yes.