Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[JREF2010]

What's actually pretty heartening is that there are a fair few thoughtful articles coming out now in support of Amanda and Raffaele. A real contrast to the white noise produced by the Machine and his pals. It's almost enough to make me hopeful the intelligent commentary might actually win out in the end...

How does it get through to the Judges in Italy though? I'm pessimistic at this stage, especially after seeing the ISC explanation/requirements for the last trial.

What good is all the DNA and evidence if it goes to a bogged down, back-logged ISC of goofballs in red robes and funny hats?

I hope Im terribly wrong and proven to be ignorant of the real Italian Justice system, but if no one is ever going to spend time to read the information..then its all a bunch of slick tongued lawyers and politics performing a theatrical show.

 

[Samson]

How does it get through to the Judges in Italy though? I'm pessimistic at this stage, especially after seeing the ISC explanation/requirements for the last trial.

What good is all the DNA and evidence if it goes to a bogged down, back-logged ISC of goofballs in red robes and funny hats?

I hope Im terribly wrong and proven to be ignorant of the real Italian Justice system, but if no one is ever going to spend time to read the information..then its all a bunch of slick tongued lawyers and politics performing a theatrical show.

Snowballs can become avalanches in the right conditions, and those conditions prevail here. The internet and the photographic evidence. I am certain this will turn more quickly than expected. The victory was hollow, and Nencini's motivation, if he does produce it, will embarrass everyone but Harryrag and Peter Quennell.
That is what I hope.

 

[anglolawyer]

Snowballs can become avalanches in the right conditions, and those conditions prevail here. The internet and the photographic evidence. I am certain this will turn more quickly than expected. The victory was hollow, and Nencini's motivation, if he does produce it, will embarrass everyone but Harryrag and Peter Quennell.
That is what I hope.

It is impossible for this not to be true. I am not sure about the snowball/avalanche thing being anytime soon but who knows?

 

[katy_did]

How does it get through to the Judges in Italy though? I'm pessimistic at this stage, especially after seeing the ISC explanation/requirements for the last trial.

What good is all the DNA and evidence if it goes to a bogged down, back-logged ISC of goofballs in red robes and funny hats?

I hope Im terribly wrong and proven to be ignorant of the real Italian Justice system, but if no one is ever going to spend time to read the information..then its all a bunch of slick tongued lawyers and politics performing a theatrical show.

Well, I did say it was almost enough to make me hopeful!

Perhaps it's just a misguided feeling that everything the PGP are doing at the moment, the propaganda in 140 characters, it's all ephemeral, and that once all that fluff disappears it's the serious commentary and criticism that will be left. I don't know how much help that will be in the short-term, though.

More immediately it seems like a huge amount hangs on Nencini's sentencing report. I must say that I'm really looking forward to reading it; I get the feeling it will be the best one yet (where by "best" I mean "most ridiculous"). He's going to have a harder time justifying this even than Massei did...

 

[Diocletus]

It is impossible for this not to be true. I am not sure about the snowball/avalanche thing being anytime soon but who knows?

What prevents him from effectively just cutting and pasting all of Massei, adding in a dash of ISC. You know: let's pretend Hellman never happened.

 

[Samson]

What prevents him from effectively just cutting and pasting all of Massei, adding in a dash of ISC. You know: let's pretend Hellman never happened.

Doesn't Crini's new time of death require him to cover the house of darkness problem?

 

[anglolawyer]

What prevents him from effectively just cutting and pasting all of Massei, adding in a dash of ISC. You know: let's pretend Hellman never happened.

That.

 

[Diocletus]

Doesn't Crini's new time of death require him to cover the house of darkness problem?

Does crini really have a new time of death, or did he just say "I don't know when she died, maybe early, maybe late. You decide"

For sure, I could see nencini being very vague and indefinite on some points, but I'll bet his overall strategy is not to break new ground.

 

[Diocletus]

The difference, in my opinion, is that at this point, there is enough information out there for the defense teams and organizations like IA to immediately put the lie to the new motivation report.

Proof of computer use
Scientific impossibility of time of death
Discredited forensics

All that stuff

 

[Samson]

Does crini really have a new time of death, or did he just say "I don't know when she died, maybe early, maybe late. You decide"

For sure, I could see nencini being very vague and indefinite on some points, but I'll bet his overall strategy is not to break new ground.

The evidence that the Massei time of death has been abandoned seems quite extensive. Crini said he leaned toward the earlier time. Nencini starts his boys night out idea with a specific mention of 8 45. They must know the pathology will bust the later time by American experts. Yet the staging remains later. The phones then become a huge problem, and the vehicle breakdown. He must pretty well resort to the lovebirds staying silent with the corpse In a dark house till the tow truck rumbles off, or whatever else.. I wonder if the report will emerge, is it really true that 10 months have elapsed in that Scazzi case?

 

[Dan O.]

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The PGP camp would say, "they were the one's holding the camera",

d

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Are you aware that there was a video camera (with sound) at the time in the room pointed at the area where Meredith was attacked and murdered. But we will never know if it was turned on at the time because the postal police destroyed the evidence when they fried the hard drives.

 

[anglolawyer]

The evidence that the Massei time of death has been abandoned seems quite extensive. Crini said he leaned toward the earlier time. Nencini starts his boys night out idea with a specific mention of 8 45. They must know the pathology will bust the later time by American experts. Yet the staging remains later. The phones then become a huge problem, and the vehicle breakdown. He must pretty well resort to the lovebirds staying silent with the corpse In a dark house till the tow truck rumbles off, or whatever else.. I wonder if the report will emerge, is it really true that 10 months have elapsed in that Scazzi case?

Thank goodness none of the evidence has to make any sense: Curatolo proves they lied about staying at home and we can ignore the rest of his evidence altogether (source: Mach - which makes me wonder why Galati stressed his 'extraordinary accuracy' and the ISC thought it profoundly significant that Toto was able to pick out the defendants on the two occasions - two! - he came to court) especially because, in Italian law, it is the totality of the logicity of the evidence that matters, not individual scraps of it. This holds true for all the evidence in the case btw. Thus, it is an answer to the overall unreliability and incredibility of Nara's scream evidence that it does not matter (as it turns out) what time (or what day? ) she heard the scream. The main thing is there was a scream. Fact. And this scream was that of the victim. Fact. And Amanda, independently of any suggestions that may have been made to her, knew about the scream, a fact we derive from her unusable statement, which is only unusable on Tuesday and Thursday. Fact. All else is fungible, as Charlie explained. Likewise, no matter how many stupid, irritating, pettifogging, irrelevant and futile criticisms may be made of Stefanoni's work she did find blood on the blade - fact - and she did find Raf's profile on the clasp. Also fact. And so on.

There! A preview of Nencini.

 

[RoseMontague]

I wonder if the report will emerge, is it really true that 10 months have elapsed in that Scazzi case?

20 April 2013 was the sentence.

ETA, the real tragedy is that still are in prison, under preventive detention. Their appeal cannot go forward without the motivation report.

 

[Strozzi]

The puzzling part of this case is why the authorities are so hell-bent on convicting a couple of people where there was no serious reason to suspect them, and against whom they have no solid evidence whatsoever. . . Rolfe.

There is actually a very clear reason why the authorities do this. They actually believe their own dietrology.

Just look at Machiavelli's posts. Smart guy. Educated. Believes what he says. Regards himself as savy (like Giobbi) in discerning subtle or hidden meanings behind people's behavior.

Machiavelli is convinced that once the Postal Police and Filomena and her boyfriend and two other of Filomena's friends arrived, Amanda was less enthusiastic about discovering the body behind the door. I believe he even noted that Amanda was in or near the kitchen area when others broke down the door, and he implied that being further away from the door was Amanda's attempt to distance herself from what she knew was behind the door.

If you've seen pictures of the hallway that led to Meredith's bedroom door and understand that 7 older Italians - two police officers, Marco, Filomena, Filomena's two Italian friends, and Sollecito - were in that hallway or living area when Marco broke the door you realize that it was crowded there. Amanda is in or near the kitchen on the phone talking with her mother in Seattle when Marco breaks open the door and someone yells "a foot, a foot".

This of course all is interpreted as indicators that Amanda knew of the crime and at the last moments was trying to distance herself from it and delay the discovery. Part of an effort to trick the police and redirect them down a different path.

I think the Italians start teaching dietrology in middle school.

 

[lane99]

Opposite sides of the same coin

...I suppose now, like with John Douglas, guilters and haters alike will be trashing Drizin, for expressing a professional opinion

Knox and Sollecito: Victims of a Prosecutor's 'Conspiracy Theories' to Explain Away DNA
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steve-drizin/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-_b_4757435.html

And from the other side, expect Knox groupies to declare him to be- by virtue of the good and sufficient reason that he agrees with their opinion- clearly someone with a sterling pedigree and unassailable reputation.
.
.

 

[Grinder]

Was this conversation in Italian, or did the cop speak English and know its idioms?

It from a novel, a true crime novel, they just make stuff up.

 

[Bill Williams]

Thank goodness none of the evidence has to make any sense: Curatolo proves they lied about staying at home and we can ignore the rest of his evidence altogether (source: Mach - which makes me wonder why Galati stressed his 'extraordinary accuracy' and the ISC thought it profoundly significant that Toto was able to pick out the defendants on the two occasions - two! - he came to court) especially because, in Italian law, it is the totality of the logicity of the evidence that matters, not individual scraps of it. This holds true for all the evidence in the case btw. Thus, it is an answer to the overall unreliability and incredibility of Nara's scream evidence that it does not matter (as it turns out) what time (or what day? ) she heard the scream. The main thing is there was a scream. Fact. And this scream was that of the victim. Fact. And Amanda, independently of any suggestions that may have been made to her, knew about the scream, a fact we derive from her unusable statement, which is only unusable on Tuesday and Thursday. Fact. All else is fungible, as Charlie explained. Likewise, no matter how many stupid, irritating, pettifogging, irrelevant and futile criticisms may be made of Stefanoni's work she did find blood on the blade - fact - and she did find Raf's profile on the clasp. Also fact. And so on.

There! A preview of Nencini.

I stumbled downstairs, put on the coffee, wiped the sleep from my eyes... rinsed my mouth from the night's offending snores... and read this.

Turned the monitor upsidedown, screwed around with the RGB settings, and you know what? Nencini is starting to make sense!

 

[Desert Fox]

20 April 2013 was the sentence.

ETA, the real tragedy is that still are in prison, under preventive detention. Their appeal cannot go forward without the motivation report.

Isn't that time in detention not even considered part of the sentence?
Maybe I am misunderstanding Italian law? Actually I hope so

 

[Bill Williams]

And from the other side, expect Knox groupies to declare him to be- by virtue of the good and sufficient reason that he agrees with their opinion- clearly someone with a sterling pedigree and unassailable reputation.
.
.

Agreed.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

bogus twitter campaign

The Kerchers have three different lawyers working hard to make sure Amanda and Raffaele are convicted. They have gone beyond accepting the prosecution's case. They are actively assisting in it. Their comments and opinions are fair game as far as I am concerned.

There is an active campaign now to take Amanda's tweet with her holding a sign saying we are innocent, changing it to say other things and tweeting it anywhere and everywhere. This has been picked up on a Facebook page where citizens of Perugia are encouraged to do the same. That is an example of hate, that goes beyond making fun of somebody, in my opinion.

RoseMontague,

Thank you for this. The Italian system gives them the opportunity to assist in the prosecution (which is a terrible idea), but it does not give them an obligation to do so. If a substantial fraction of Perugians take part in the campaign you mentioned, then Seattle should cut ties with its sister city, if it has not done so already.