Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Poppy1016]

No publicity !!
Her appeal against a murder conviction was just denied and she got some airtime. No ?

How is she going to top that - do a porno with Obama's dog. You know, the kind of stuff RS apparently liked.

That level of ignorance should not be tolerated here. At least I have the ignore function.

 

[Kestrel]

Possibly the cartoon was responsible for creating this myth. The claim that Knox left a shoe print or fooprint there is equally invalid. Truly a wretched article.

People tend to accept what they see in a video reconstruction as reality, even when it violates known facts or the laws of physics. It is easy to forget that what you are seeing is just someone's theory of what happened.

I believe there have been scientific studies of this issue.

ETA: Early in the case, the prosecution did claim that one of the bloody footprints was from Amanda. Examined closely, it's clearly just a partial print matching the others from Guede's Nike shoes.

 

[Bob001]

.....
Gosh, I soooo wish that Rudy Guede had the ballz as Omar Ballard did to state to a court of law that he, only he, commited that horrible brutal rape and murder that other innocent people were charged and convicted for!
....

He wouldn't even have had to say that. He could just have testified "I was there [which he already admitted in his own trial], and Amanda and Raffaele weren't." But I suspect his plea deal might have flown away.

 

[RWVBWL]

Delete.
See post below...

 

[Kaosium]

http://www.shewired.com/opinion/2014/02/10/op-ed-trial-media-case-amanda-knox

Anyone up for shredding the garbage above? I gotta work at 5am... But I will try a bit tommorow.

There's a poster who has posted in this thread and sometimes would erase his post and leave 'Edit: Not worth it' which is how I feel about responding to her post.

Saying "hand-prints on her face and neck allegedly matched Knox’s as did a bloody footprint" is someone being willfully ignorant. The handprint was an outright lie that didn't go farther than Matteini, and the 'bloody footprint' tested negative for blood which they tried to hide and lied about in court. Unless she means the partial shoeprint with Rudy Guede's tread marks on it that was also disproven in court and the prosecution didn't even try to pretend was a match, just that because it was smaller it was 'possible.' Then the DNA 'evidence' discredited by Italian independent experts yada, yada, yada.

She mentions Rudy Guede but is apparently unaware he left DNA inside Meredith, on her clothes, her pillow, her purse and his shoeprints all over the floor of the cottage, while nothing of Amanda's was ever found. That's 'cuz he's the only one who did it and of the three that were arrested the only one she shows sympathy for is the one who got out and has been trying to milk his two whole weeks in jail for everything it's worth ever since no matter much his lies hurt the other two people wrongfully arrested with him.

She relied on a prison warden for her character 'assessment' when she could have read Florisbela Inocencio de Jesus' book, someone who actually knew Amanda and could give a perspective on just what it was like being a woman of color in Antonelli's prison.

Whatever. Not worth it. It looks like she's just a victim of the bunnies e-mail bombardment campaign decrying the 'PR campaign' of Amanda Knox.

The irony is sublime.

 

[Poppy1016]

However, she's innocent of the calunnia charges as well and is appealing it to the ECHR. Paying him would be an admission of guilt which would be kinda stupid being as she's contesting it.

Patrick already got paid, he sold lies about Amanda to the tabloids for nearly a hundred thousand dollars, possibly more as that just accounts for the Daily Mail and one Italian outlet (70k + 10k Euros). He also has a case pending against the police in Perugia before the ECHR for half a million Euros, which might have been imperiled by his lying in court when asked about the conduct of his interrogation in which he said he was well treated to the detriment of Amanda. Before and after his court appearance he said he was beaten and his rights were violated, but not when called to testify against Amanda.

I still hope he wins that case, but if they look at his testimony in Amanda's trial he probably won't.

This is the first I've heard about Patrick having a case pending against the Perugia police , before the ECHR. Is there a link to this information?

 

[RWVBWL]

A Horrible, Horrible Way to Die.

I've followed this brutal rape and murder case since it 1st happened back in 2007,
as many of you too have.

I know of the ridiculous overnight interrogation of Amanda Knox,
done without an attorney present or audio and/or video recordings,
just hours before Miss Knox's Mother was to arrive from America.

I know that Doctor Stefanoni needed special permission to work on this brutal murder case,
and that she collected evidence herself to then test it herself.

I know that she wore dirty gloves and handled the Bra Clasp herself,

possibly contaminating this crucial piece of evidence.

Instead of simply using new sterile tweezers and gloves:



I've seen photo's of the alleged kitchen knife retrieved by police investigators,
from intuition, at Raffaele Sollecito flat because it looked clean:


Amanda Knox supposedly carried this knife around town, IIRC, per convicting Judge Massei in the 1st trial, for "protection". My 1st girlfriend, my high school sweetheart was a beautiful Latina, a Venice gangster from V13, yet neither she, nor any other gal I've ever met carried a kitchen knife around town for protection, girlz I've known wanting to protect themselves will often simply carry a small bottle of Pepper Spray, like my own bottle shown here as I often do as I shoot surfpix in the early morning hours at the beaches of Los Angeles:



Here is another photograph of that confiscated kitchen knife
from the apartment of Amanda's boyfriend,
whom she had just met at a classical music concert,
what was it, 6 days earlier?:


Notice how long it is in comparison to that police officers hand?


I've read that this knife would have decapitated Meredith Kercher if shoved 3 times into her neck as she fought off a rapist.

I did not attend any of the court trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito.
I did not ever see the neck wound that this knife supposedly did.
Did you?


I've seen illustrations of the wound:



But I've never seen a photograph of the wound itself that killed Meredith Kercher.

Here is a photo I just found of the wound that killed Meredith.
It looks like defence attorney CDV is present in the photograph.
Be warned, it's horrible to see:
http://images.teinteresa.es/sucesos/agonica-muerte-Meredith-Kercher_TINIMA20110907_1137_18.jpg


Do you think that knife pictured above was the knife that was stabbed 3 times in Miss Kercher's throat?

I too believe that this knife is too large for the wounds that Meredith Kercher brutally suffered
as shown in the photograph linked above and that this kitchen knife found at Raffaele Sollecito's apartment would have indeed nearly decapitated Meredith Kercher if shoved all the way once, much less 3 times into her throat.

Do you agree or disagree?

 

[acbytesla]

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Agreed. Almost every single serial killer investigation I have ever studied, friends and close relatives, and those who find the body are always one step below "persons of interest".

FBI homicide numbers kind of prove the theory that most murders were committed by someone close to the victim. But personally, I think the numbers are the result of a self-fullfilling prophecy, and the way Homicide Investigations work sort of proves this (Homicide/ Relationship Data for 2010):

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc.../crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl10.xls

So interviewing those close to the victim is routine. What do you know. Who do you think did this? Where were you? What was your relationship... etc. etc. Then, check people's alibis and criminal history. Doing this to narrow down the list of suspects.

While waiting for forensics, anyone who doesn't have a good alibi gets brought in for a second interrogation, sometimes leading to polygraphs.

The whole point is to not prove someone guilty, but to eliminate suspects until there's only one left. That's the theory anyway.

It seems that in this case, they picked their suspects and instead of trying to eliminate them, they tried to prove they were the ones from the beginning, before they even had any of the forensics back?

d

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Agreed. But I don't think polygraphs are used that often in investigations. They aren't usable in a court of law and there is significant evidence that they are only as a good as the technician administering the test.

We've had the discussions here that while most of us think the US courts and legal system may be better than Italy, it too has plenty of flaws and wrongly convicts and incarcerates far too many people.

I have often wondered if Amanda was an ugly girl...say 3 instead of Amanda's 8 plus, would she have ever been a suspect? A person of interest, I'm sure. .but a suspect or a defendant? I don't think so.

Amanda's beauty and being an American along with her beau who looked like the Harry Potter in the books and movies made this a sexy story.

If Amanda hadn't been so attractive would it have gone this far? I think not. Or would this ugly Amanda been arrested and nobody cared??

Makes you go hmmmmmmm.

 

[AmyStrange]

He loves his mother a little too much...

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That level of ignorance should not be tolerated here. At least I have the ignore function.

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It's not a level. It's a disease.

It's obviously someone who was brought up by a cowardly father figure who beat and raped his wife, if they were even married.

I don't know about the particular poster you're refering to, but it's possible his brother has a guilt complex because he wants to have sex with his mother and this guilt complex carries over into real life as it feeds his hate for women who remind him of his mother, because of how she makes him feel.

Oh wait a minute, maybe it's not the brother at all that has the guilt complex,

d

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[HotNostril]

kcoh,

Yes, and that list of people who think that way would apparently include Alan Dershowitz and Craig Murray. Like you, I don't get it. If I found out tomorrow that there was no coercion to name Patrick, it might well mean that Amanda was a bad person, but a great many questions would remain. If you are guilty, why would you name someone who probably has an alibi? If you are guilty, why not name the guilty men who are with you? The false accusation doesn't work as evidence of guilt IMO.

Sometimes people do and say things to escape the moment. Not really thinking things through to a final outcome or conclusion.
Perhaps by naming Patrick she believed she would be free to go and her and RS could really nail down that alibi and get their stories straight in the interim.

 

[Kaosium]

It's a challenge to find a sentence that does not have an error. But I did find this interesting: "After the Jan. 31 conviction was announced, Lumumba told London’s Channel 5 News, 'I’d like to tell Amanda that she’s completely destroyed my life. She made me, my family, my friends suffer. She should be writing to me to apologize.'" If the author knew what fact-checking was, she could have discovered what we found out today on this thread, namely that she apologized on a number of occations. So Patrick thinks Amanda destroyed his life? He needs to get a job, support his family and stop helping to destroy hers.

If Patrick Lumumba's thinks his 'life was destroyed' it might be because those people like musicians who don't want him around know he's a liar and a fraud. It must have been embarrassing as hell to have the Lumumba family in the Congo say he was lying about being a relative of theirs, and everyone who knew him before knows he's lying about hating Amanda beforehand as he liked her just fine and sought her out the day of the interrogation: Amanda and Raffaele's last day of freedom for four years. He gets out and becomes a tool for the police and prosecution to truly destroy the lives and families of innocents and get paid well by the tabloids to do it.

Who would want to know him?

 

[HotNostril]

Are you aware that a member of the italian parliament was famous for doing a scene with a horse. That's how mainstream those things are in italy.



Your attempt to shame Raffaelle is just ridiculous, he's just a regular italian man.

Thud.

I had no idea and frankly without the source for such claims I file that tidbit under urban myth

 

[AmyStrange]

Polygraphs

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Agreed. But I don't think polygraphs are used that often in investigations. They aren't usable in a court of law and there is significant evidence that they are only as a good as the technician administering the test.
We've had the discussions here that while most of us think the US courts and legal system may be better than Italy, it too has plenty of flaws and wrongly convicts and incarcerates far too many people.

I have often wondered if Amanda was an ugly girl...say 3 instead of Amanda's 8 plus, would she have ever been a suspect? A person of interest, I'm sure. .but a suspect or a defendant? I don't think so.

Amanda's beauty and being an American along with her beau who looked like the Harry Potter in the books and movies made this a sexy story.

If Amanda hadn't been so attractive would it have gone this far? I think not. Or would this ugly Amanda been arrested and nobody cared??

Makes you go hmmmmmmm.

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They're not used in every single case, but trust me, they're also not used to get evidence for court either. They're mostly used when cases get stalled and they need some kind of hint on where to go from there.

Polygraphs were used extensively in the Green River Killer case. As a matter of fact, Gary Ridgway (the Green River Killer) passed two of them,

d

ETA You might be right about the pretty, but it was the creepy that started a large part of the PGP party, in my opinion
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[kcoh]

Agreed. But I don't think polygraphs are used that often in investigations. They aren't usable in a court of law and there is significant evidence that they are only as a good as the technician administering the test.

We've had the discussions here that while most of us think the US courts and legal system may be better than Italy, it too has plenty of flaws and wrongly convicts and incarcerates far too many people.

I have often wondered if Amanda was an ugly girl...say 3 instead of Amanda's 8 plus, would she have ever been a suspect? A person of interest, I'm sure. .but a suspect or a defendant? I don't think so.

Amanda's beauty and being an American along with her beau who looked like the Harry Potter in the books and movies made this a sexy story.

If Amanda hadn't been so attractive would it have gone this far? I think not. Or would this ugly Amanda been arrested and nobody cared??

Makes you go hmmmmmmm.

I thought they went after her because of her "peculiar behavior?" I wondered if she, perhaps, was Autistic back in my on-the-fence days, but that is because I believed in the odd Foxy Knoxy caricature. I also noticed that a lot of people who knew her before she was arrested described her as goofy and eccentric. However, I think that if she had been ugly and/or fat, the police would not be so interested in carrying this obviously dud of a case on and the media would not care. No one would.

Did the police really trick her into writing down the names of all of her sexual partners and then proceeded to release the list to the media?

 

[Kaosium]

This is the first I've heard about Patrick having a case pending against the Perugia police , before the ECHR. Is there a link to this information?

It goes way back, I hadn't heard of it in a while either, until this Nick Pisa piece the day before the last verdict.

Knox was convicted of slandering Lumumba and ordered to pay him 22,000 euros in 2011 and he was also later awarded 8,000 euros in damages by the Italian state but he rejected this to pursue a claim through the European Court of Human Rights.

As I pointed out earlier though, the testimony he gave against Amanda will likely imperil that.

 

[Kaosium]

Thud.

I had no idea and frankly without the source for such claims I file that tidbit under urban myth

I imagine he means Ilona Staller who was known as Cicciolina. I'd never heard that about the horse either, but if you google that stage name with horse something comes up. I didn't watch it, you're welcome to if you have to know. I do not!

 

[Kaosium]

Sometimes people do and say things to escape the moment. Not really thinking things through to a final outcome or conclusion.
Perhaps by naming Patrick she believed she would be free to go and her and RS could really nail down that alibi and get their stories straight in the interim.

So why did they believe it? The police I mean? Why did they still believe it when Patrick told them it wasn't true? How did they manage to find someone to say his bar was closed instead of all the people who'd come forth to alibi him? How come once those people came forward they rejected them all, even the Swiss professor they grilled for seven hours, until the arrest of Rudy Guede?

 

[Poppy1016]

It goes way back, I hadn't heard of it in a while either, until this Nick Pisa piece the day before the last verdict.



As I pointed out earlier though, the testimony he gave against Amanda will likely imperil that.

I saw no mention of $500,000 in the article.

 

[HotNostril]

I imagine he means Ilona Staller who was known as Cicciolina. I'd never heard that about the horse either, but if you google that stage name with horse something comes up. I didn't watch it, you're welcome to if you have to know. I do not!

Oh hell no! I don't want any such video on my computer.
I was speaking of the assertion it was normal in Italy and common among Italian men.

 

[AmyStrange]

il cazzo: "Muscolo rosso (it)"

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I imagine he means Ilona Staller who was known as Cicciolina. I'd never heard that about the horse either, but if you google that stage name with horse something comes up. I didn't watch it, you're welcome to if you have to know. I do not!

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WOW! She certainly has one hell of a story, but this is the part I liked:

FROM: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilona_Staller

"'In 2012, Staller founded the Democracy, Nature and Love Party (DNA) with her partner Luca di Carlo, a criminal defense lawyer. Its objectives included: the legalization of same-sex marriage; the reopening of former brothels ('closed houses'); a guaranteed minimum wage for young people; a properly functioning judicial system for every Italian; and the elimination of the privileges of the rich political 'caste'. The party is ready to stand for the upcoming elections on 24 February 2013... '"

d

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