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Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

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Welshman said:
If Italy tried to extradite Amanda, could the misconduct which occurred in this case be used against an extradition request. Could it be argued that Amanda should not be extradited because the police and prosecution have lied and suppressed evidence.
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I personally believe they might try double jeopardy, but that's a tricky one. I would go for not following the internationally accepted protocol on forensic collection and preservation, using the bra clasp as exhibit number one.

But, that's just my opinion,

d

ETA: I look forward to the motivations, April 29th or later, I think. Please, correct me if I'm wrong.
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Something quite unexpected is going on. The national and international reaction has become decidedly pro defendant. I remember with the first trial, the public reaction was mostly against Amanda, even in the states. Now what I see from sites such a reddit, Huffington post,and daily mail is quite a turnaround, with the top comments calling this an injustice and mocking the Italian justice system. Even the world news subreddit, which is usually quite anti American, are coming to Amanda and Raffaele defense.
 
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Bill Williams said:
You are getting there, but not quite to start putting people away......

Was it premeditated? Was it the result of Mededith (completely uncharacteristically) throwing a fit because of Amanda's cleanliness? Was it Massei's "brief choice for evil"? Was it the ISC's sex game gone wrong?

I guess these things are unimportant... which begs the question as to why the prosecutors/courts themselves keep bringing it up and changing them.

I'm sure if you thought about it you'd not want to live under such a system.
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Doesn't matter. She's guilty.
 
This is hilarious. Now who thinks there is still one honest Italian ? (forget logical or even smart)

And please save me, all the "new" ...well old troll one line posters. But if you find the Italian courts logical and even sane please start by defending the ISC decision in this linked case from last week...or was it love? Hang with the Italians long enough and they may just start sticking it to you too ....all in the name of love! :-)

http://www.christianpost.com/news/i...cause-he-and-11-y-o-girl-were-in-love-112000/

I bet the ISC now overturns Ka-Noxs conviction and then the prosecution refuses to appeal and so ends the case. No liability for false imprisonment or even investigation over provable corrupt acts by police, prosecutor et al.

OTOH the extradition hearing will force Italy to come here to present its "evidence" and then lets see how that works out for them...NEXT!

Another proud day for Italy...much like the day the Italian captain drove his cruise ship into the rocks and then abandoned ship while his passengers died. (well he did trip and fall into the life boat right PR Yummi?) Italians are such "honorable" people.

I also think it will be hilarious when they lock up RS also an Eye talian and meanwhile Knox goes to Halloween parties and writes another book... this time for ten million. Meanwhile Lumumba will still be waiting for his first payment. The Kerchers too I suppose.

Poor Ka-nox and poor Sollecito.

On the bright side this thread now gets to live on forever. Lets talk about Mignini. He is such a liar. The Italian scientists...lol...sorry cant use those two words together. There are scientists and there are Italians but there are no Italian scientists...no respectable peer reviewed ones anyway.

Yummi /Mach...answer the questions. Will it be the poop or the sex in this motivation report? You must have a keen enough sense to sniff out the correct theory on this by now.

Looks like its Dantes The Eight Circle of Hell for the Italian legal bearers. Good luck with that wappos....
 
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Bill Williams said:
behind the scenes conspiracy to convict Sollecito and Knox.
Then when it's pointed out that this is the reason the ISC, and now the Nencini court, have acted the way they have, he accuses the innocence-side of engaging in conspiracy.
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1. "this", what?

2. I am not accusing the innocentisti side of engaging in conspiracy. That would be a petty sin compared to what they do. I am accusing them of being devoid of any logic in their envisioning conpsiracy (of better, "honest", transparent logic - they do follow a dishonest path). Had a conspiracy theory been developed on a path of logical rigoeur, it would something else, something completely different. The big problem is that their CT is a "reasoning" unattached to logic and facts; it's a mixture of fundamental falsehoods and inconsistence.
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Climbing the Wall

Maybe the judge forgot to check out on his smartphone that Youtube video Knox's lawyer recommended. Anyway, no surprises today. This conviction was as easy to predict as the previous acquittal was.

Italy can seek extradition and if the US govt objects on the grounds of inhuman prison overcrowding, Italy can assure the US they'll have plenty of space, because they're about to give the #REALKILLER a get-out-of-jail-free card and send him on his merry way.
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Machiavelli said:
I dont see a connection with nationality, anyway there isn't any "second male" profile on the bra clasp.
There are extra alleles. An allele is a short haminoacid chain, a fragment of polimeric protein, not a person. You can't match it to an individual. It can be transferred from broken DNA left in the environment or derive from degradation or alteration of breaking of a molecule.
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Thank you for debunking the single Y-allele that was attributed to Raffaele.... all the while where people claim it CAN be matched to him.

Have you switched sides?
 
RandyN said:
This is hilarious. Now who thinks there is still one honest Italian ? (forget logical or even smart) (...)
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Right, who thinks so? You may ask the question to, maybe some of the 60% US Americans who believe the 9-11 attacks were ordered by Saddam Hussein? Let's see what they think about the existence of honest Italians.
Or you may ask those reporters from the courtroom, today, who were explaining the defence problem was that Italian law is complex.
 
Machiavelli said:
1. "this", what?

2. I am not accusing the innocentisti side of engaging in conspiracy. That would be a petty sin compared to what they do. I am accusing them of being devoid of any logic in their envisioning conpsiracy (of better, "honest", transparent logic - they do follow a dishonest path). Had a conspiracy theory been developed on a path of logical rigoeur, it would something else, something completely different. The big problem is that their CT is a "reasoning" unattached to logic and facts; it's a mixture of fundamental falsehoods and inconsistence.
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Many apologies... this makes no sense.

Are you claiming that a conspiracy theory where Hellmann was supposedly "substituted" is logical and factual (therefore the people in on the substitution are part of the conspiracy, suggesting a "party" of judicial-types opposed to you)?

Is that CT a mixture of truth and consistency? You haven't even revealed the amount of Euros it took for Hellmann, the well known Mason, to deliver on his promise?
 
Bill Williams said:
Thank you for debunking the single Y-allele that was attributed to Raffaele.... all the while where people claim it CAN be matched to him.
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Ehm... Bill, there is no such thinh like a "Y-allele". What is called "Y" is the Y-haplotype sequence, it is a sequence of alleles from the Y chromosome.
It's a sequence that matches Sollecito, not an allele. The match is a consequence of statistical probabilities.
 
Machiavelli said:
Right, who thinks so? You may ask the question to, maybe some of the 60% US Americans who believe the 9-11 attacks were ordered by Saddam Hussein? Let's see what they think about the existence of honest Italians.
Or you may ask those reporters from the courtroom, today, who were explaining the defence problem was that Italian law is complex.
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Machiavelli - you forgot something. RandyN requested that you respond to the following.

Yummi /Mach...answer the questions. Will it be the poop or the sex in this motivation report? You must have a keen enough sense to sniff out the correct theory on this by now.
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This is a question many have about Italian justice. Do they simply get to invent and reinvent and reinvent, and then at the end claim, "well you don't need a motive.?" I mean, in Italy do they get to do that, string it out until they get a conviction?

Again, what was the crime they were convicted of? Ritualistic killing? Sex game gone wrong? Pooh in the toilet? Or Massei's, "a last second choice for evil'? I'm hoping you'll be one to translate Nencini's report - I get the feeling he'll offer a completely unheard of one.... like Crini..

I have the feeling that even despite today's reinstatement of Massei's decision, no one from your side of things will answer that question. It will just keep being cut out of the asker's post....
 
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BaileyBell said:
Something quite unexpected is going on. The national and international reaction has become decidedly pro defendant. I remember with the first trial, the public reaction was mostly against Amanda, even in the states. Now what I see from sites such a reddit, Huffington post,and daily mail is quite a turnaround, with the top comments calling this an injustice and mocking the Italian justice system. Even the world news subreddit, which is usually quite anti American, are coming to Amanda and Raffaele defense.
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I believe your observation is correct. Upon arrest the police released false and sensational claims to hungry journalists seeking to score sensational stories. Since then, many opinion leaders have learned enough about the case to realize that many claims by the police and prosecution are false and that the police and prosecution have withheld (destroyed) evidence or falsely interpreted it.
Today's verdict doesn't change the prosecution's evidence and all of a sudden make it reliable.
 
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Machiavelli said:
Ehm... Bill, there is no such thinh like a "Y-allele". What is called "Y" is the Y-haplotype sequence, it is a sequence of alleles from the Y chromosome.
It's a sequence that matches Sollecito, not an allele. The match is a consequence of statistical probabilities.
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You mean the match that wasn't repeated by anyone?
You mean that bra clasp that was collected 46 days later? The one, that was passed around between techs like a bottle a bottle of cheap wine?

You mean that bra clasp that Stefanoni is holding with a dirty glove?
You mean those results that Stefanoni to this day hasn't provided the electronic data files? You mean that Y halotype?
 
Machiavelli said:
Ehm... Bill, there is no such thinh like a "Y-allele". What is called "Y" is the Y-haplotype sequence, it is a sequence of alleles from the Y chromosome.
It's a sequence that matches Sollecito, not an allele. The match is a consequence of statistical probabilities.
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Correction well taken. But you made the point about it being untracable, really, to an individual. The probability is that it could have been yours on the braclasp.

But thanks for the correction.

What acbytesla said.
 
two to four male contributors besides Sollecito

Machiavelli said:
I dont see a connection with nationality, anyway there isn't any "second male" profile on the bra clasp.
There are extra alleles. An allele is a short haminoacid chain, a fragment of polimeric protein, not a person. You can't match it to an individual. It can be transferred from broken DNA left in the environment or derive from degradation or alteration of breaking of a molecule.
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DNA is a polymer of deoxynucleotides, each of which consists of a base, deoxyribose (a derivative of a sugar), and phosphate (the conjugate base of phosphoric acid). There is no protein, which is a polymer of amino acids. And your definition of allele is wrong; therefore, your discussion of the alleles does not make sense in at least two ways.

With respect to the YSTR profile (from the Y-chromosome) of the clasp, there are a minimum of two male contributors to the clasp besides Raffaele. If one uses threshold values for peaks similar to that used for the knife, then one sees about four other male contributors. Now one can wish these peaks away by saying that they are from the environment, but in reality that is just another way of saying that the bra clasp is contaminated. Thank you for acknowledging this. It is the number of contributors that is important, not the identities of the contributors.
 
The Central Scrutinizer said:
For those who haven't read the thread, "guilters" is a code word for "critical thinkers".
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Actually, it's a code word for people who feel threatened by their peers but in awe of authority. Here's how their thinking operates:

Dangerous, menacing, strong and powerful

Conspiracy theorists
Americans in North Korean labor camps
11-year-old girls
Amanda Knox

Benign, protective, weak and powerless

Governments, intelligence agencies, multinational corporations
Our Darling Leader Kim Jong-Un
60-year-old men
Italian law enforcement and court system

See: Tilting at windmills
 
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