Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Diocletus]

Or maybe someone who walked under the sill and then climbed up the wall caused the leaf to be positioned there?

I'm thinking that Rudy wasn't sure about whether there was any toilet paper left in the cottage so he grabbed a leaf just in case.

 

[Bill Williams]

Probably the one just out of view that blew the leaves under the sill.

Or it could have been dragged into the room on the heel of Rudy's shoes.

That's the point Briars, you or me have no idea of knowing how that leaf came to be there. I'd say it is reasonable to think it made it's way into Meredith's bedroom either way.

There simply is no conclusive way to say that the break in was staged. And if the break in wasn't staged, how can you say that Amanda and Raffaele were involved??

The whole point, Briars, is that you do not convict people on probablies. Except for maybe Massei, but that's another conversation.

 

[Kaosium]

Mark Olshaker on an article by Andrea Vogt: "Fourth, stating as a journalistic fact that, “Instead, he’s considered all the evidence as a whole,” is like saying we lose money on each individual item we sell, but make it up on volume; it makes no sense. The evidence as a whole is clear: Rudy Guede was there and killed Meredith. Amanda and Raffaele had nothing to do with it. So clearly he is not considering all the evidence."

That's a great article by John Douglas' associate, more people should read it. In addition to your excerpt I also like this one:

Why does a column like this “work,” and why do such pieces persist? Because they confirm the biases that many readers already have about the case. From the beginning, the sentiment in Meredith’s home country has been that Amanda and Raffaele killed her, regardless of the facts.

Well, aren’t I as biased on one side as Ms. Vogt seems to be on the other?

Certainly. But I think the distinction is that I went into this case assuming Amanda was guilty and after examining all of the evidence with John Douglas, we both came to the certain conclusion that she and Raffaele were innocent and that Rudy Guede was the sole killer. We had no axe to grind one way or the other. All we cared about was evidence. Interestingly, I don’t know of a single legitimate, experienced investigator unrelated to the case who has come out against them after an independent review.

On the other hand Andrea Vogt went into this case getting gooey goblets of guilt 'news' from the Perugian authorities, compounded by spending all that time on PMF getting duped down the bunny hole. She never quite put together that the fact so much of the crap she was fed turned out to be false ought to have been a big clue she should start treating their statements, theories and claims with greater skepticism.

 

[acbytesla]

Really , so leaves on sills in the fall is cause for alarm? All those that collect in my eves trough might indicate robbers on my roof as well at my windows.

There is also a leaf on the floor. The point is if you are looking for evidence that someone broke in, how can you ignore leaves that may have been dragged in?

What this demonstrates is that you are cherry picking the evidence to confirm your bias.

 

[Bill Williams]

Grinder]First of all send yourself to the penalty box for causing me to check into this.

It is clear to me that Raf has never been a very blight bulb. He is much to blame for both of them getting charged. He is a spoiled space cadet.
I used my psycho meter on her and she in fact a psycho according to the meter. I'm sure Eyes4Psychos will run an analysis on her.

One question came to mind: how did Raf get a lawyer and banker in Coeur D’Alene?

These are the kind of remarks that really piss me off. I don't know Raff or Amanda, I've read both their books and neither seems dumb. They are their own individuals. How do you make snap judgments like that Grinder? Do you really think you have enough information to make this kind of call?

My guess is this woman is just another person cashing in on the boutique industry which is the the Meredith Kercher/Amanda Knox story. Ten to one she was paid for this story. She wouldn't be the first.

One day karma will catch up with us all. Me, I'll get ticketed for a noisy party I have at my house, and years later when I'm charged with a crime I did not do, whole internet chat rooms will discuss the minutiae of that noise ticket... was it a felony? Was it an early sign of psychopathology?

Or the timeline will work in reverse.... I will meet up with someone else on FaceBook, and it will end up in relational disaster... then, me already being famous, will attract the attention of nutjobs around the internet who'll try to parse what is essentially a private matter...

Sheesh.

I'll do acbytesla one better - I'll give 20 to 1.

 

[acbytesla]

The whole point, Briars, is that you do not convict people on probablies. Except for maybe Massei, but that's another conversation.

Clearly Briars is more than willing to do it as well Bill.

 

[Grinder]

I haven't met them and neither have you. And given just how distorted the press can be, either from tabloid fodder or PR puff pieces, is it really fair to come to this conclusion? I certainly think it is massively arrogant to judge people's intellect from what is written in the press.

But hey, that's me. I wait until I have enough information before I start in with the character assassinations. And I don't think you'll ever have enough from the likes of the Daily Mail and Radar Online.

I never sit in the cheap seats.

You didn't indicate if you had read the story and watched the videos. His first interview started my impression of him. What did you think of it?

His on-line activity seems ill-advised and his travels at the times he's taking them, also the same. His disregarding his father and carrying a knife to the police station while being interviewed for a murder committed with a knife didn't seem that sharp.

 

[Antony]

And sentence Raffaele to time served. Perhaps they will even mutter that he could be guilty, but not BARD.

Am I invisible? This is very much what I said some pages back.

I agree with Tesla that it would be a bigger contortion of logic than anything we've yet seen, but these guys just don't care.

 

[Briars]

Why use weasel words like this?

"Raf is a loose cannon"? What: he's supposed to go live in a monastery?

I suppose I'm a fan boy by simply pointing out that even if this is not a hoax, the "behaviour" is no different than what happens on FB each day. It's like saying that because Raf and AK smoked pot, they must be guilty....

The whole point is that all this sort of extraneous stuff is pulled out of the ether as if it means something..... It's this sort of stuff which has been the problem since the first tabloid excess....

Who cares? Not this fan boy....

Is it ethical to propose marriage to try to obtain a visa. That's not normal FB activity. Interesting that you approve or don't care in your line or work.

 

[acbytesla]

I never sit in the cheap seats.
You didn't indicate if you had read the story and watched the videos. His first interview started my impression of him. What did you think of it?

His on-line activity seems ill-advised and his travels at the times he's taking them, also the same. His disregarding his father and carrying a knife to the police station while being interviewed for a murder committed with a knife didn't seem that sharp.

You're sitting in the cheap seats now.

Unless, you can say you've been making trips to Perugia and Florence. If you haven't met them, than you don't have a clue. I haven't met them either. I know that I don't have a clue.

 

[Bill Williams]

Really , so leaves on sills in the fall is cause for alarm? All those that collect in my eves trough might indicate robbers on my roof as well at my windows.

There is also a leaf on the floor. The point is if you are looking for evidence that someone broke in, how can you ignore leaves that may have been dragged in?

What this demonstrates is that you are cherry picking the evidence to confirm your bias.

What you're forgetting, acbytesla, is that Briars has already established the "bowl-like" geography of the valley beyond the cottage... not only does it reflect sound so that Nara can hear it, but it also tends to funnel leaves into that very window....

 

[Bill Williams]

Is it ethical to propose marriage to try to obtain a visa. That's not normal FB activity.

Briars... get a life.

 

[Briars]

How do you interpret looking for a quick marriage to a stranger to get a visa?The texts are not disputable BTW.

 

[Briars]

Why use weasel words like this?

"Raf is a loose cannon"? What: he's supposed to go live in a monastery?

I suppose I'm a fan boy by simply pointing out that even if this is not a hoax, the "behaviour" is no different than what happens on FB each day. It's like saying that because Raf and AK smoked pot, they must be guilty....

The whole point is that all this sort of extraneous stuff is pulled out of the ether as if it means something..... It's this sort of stuff which has been the problem since the first tabloid excess....

Who cares? Not this fan boy....

Briars... get a life.

I have a nice one ,not a double one?

 

[Kaosium]

Really , so leaves on sills in the fall is cause for alarm? All those that collect in my eves trough might indicate robbers on my roof as well at my windows.

I've got leaves on my roof as well, due to the big tree that overhangs. Until I got gutter shields each fall rainstorm was a race as to whether I could get out there and unclog the gutters before the water pooled up so much it would flood the basement. Climbing ladders in freezing rain is bracing, I assure you.

On the other side of the house where there's no trees (but some in the yard next door) I may have no leaves at all underneath the windows and few used to get in those gutters, it's an unlikely occurrence.

Do you think a leaf being on that sill makes it more likely someone might have climbed up there?

 

[Grinder]

Why use weasel words like this?

Give me the word you prefer and I'll use it.

"Raf is a loose cannon"? What: he's supposed to go live in a monastery?

Most people not living in a monastery aren't loose cannons. This isn't like factoid is it. He does and says stupid things that make him look bad.

I suppose I'm a fan boy by simply pointing out that even if this is not a hoax, the "behaviour" is no different than what happens on FB each day. It's like saying that because Raf and AK smoked pot, they must be guilty....

Well given that there are millions of people on FB I suppose all sorts of stupid things are done every day. No, it is nothing like saying smoking pot makes one guilty of murder. He meets her through FB and is flying off to meet her and propose to her in no time. Have you read the account and seen the text messages?

The whole point is that all this sort of extraneous stuff is pulled out of the ether as if it means something..... It's this sort of stuff which has been the problem since the first tabloid excess....

Who cares? Not this fan boy....

All I said is he doesn't seem that bright and he doesn't.

 

[acbytesla]

What you're forgetting, acbytesla, is that Briars has already established the "bowl-like" geography of the valley beyond the cottage... not only does it reflect sound so that Nara can hear it, but it also tends to funnel leaves into that very window....

Hey Bill, I know the leaves could have blown in through the window. The important word is could. I also know that it could have been dragged in on the sole of Rudy's shoe. Briars is going through this case with blinders on.

He is immune to both the facts, scientific certainties and common every day logic. But he is no different than the rest of the guilters. The evidence is really beyond clear, but he is sticking to his guns. Because to change now, would make him feel foolish. And he like the Italians is more afraid of the embarrassment of being in the wrong for such a long time.

I bet there is some kind of intellectual maxim about the longer the period of time a position is wrongly held, the greater the resistance to changing one's mind.

 

[Bill Williams]

Give me the word you prefer and I'll use it.



Most people not living in a monastery aren't loose cannons. This isn't like factoid is it. He does and says stupid things that make him look bad.



Well given that there are millions of people on FB I suppose all sorts of stupid things are done every day. No, it is nothing like saying smoking pot makes one guilty of murder. He meets her through FB and is flying off to meet her and propose to her in no time. Have you read the account and seen the text messages?



All I said is he doesn't seem that bright and he doesn't.

And I'm still waiting for the answer to this question......

So??

What's what is essentially a private matter between consenting adults got to do with the decision coming up in a week?

It's been this sort of tabloid luridness that has been part and parcel of the problem since the git-go....

So what? What if Raffaele is the most stupid person on the planet? So what? Does that make the climb in through Filomena's window any more or less doable?

So?

 

[Bill Williams]

I have a nice one ,not a double one?

What? I truly believe silly season on JREF is here....

 

[acbytesla]

How do you interpret looking for a quick marriage to a stranger to get a visa?The texts are not disputable BTW.

Well, one Briars, it doesn't work that way. You can marry someone abroad, but that doesn't mean they automatically get to immigrate to the US. A friend of mine married a girl he met in Korea. She wasn't provided an actual green card for 4 years.

They would never provide Raffaele with a green card with this hanging over his head. Ever, ever, ever.