Moderated What Caused the Plane Shaped Hole

[yankee451]

The FAA/ATC? American or United Airlines? Network TV/radio?

So the people who were able to make this happen within the FAA/ATC, American/United Airlines, network tv and radio are beyond reproach? Why is that?

 

[JSanderO]

You can see floors collapsed and what about 2wtc... where's YOUR evidence that there were no floors there? What support the fire?... the material that was burning???

The bolts sheared or were pulled out as and entire panel was pushed inward with a force applied mid ht... the one it separated from received no lateral force... and was laterally braced by the floors below... so what happened is it remained intact and the bolts connecting it to the mangled one pushed inward were sheared or pulled through... heads or nuts popped.

You see exactly this type of damage in many of the panels in the debris. Leverage pulled the bolts and popped the heads or nuts.

 

[DGM]

So the people who were able to make this happen within the FAA/ATC, American/United Airlines, network tv and radio are beyond reproach? Why is that?

You tell me, it's your idea.

 

[JSanderO]

So the people who were able to make this happen within the FAA/ATC, American/United Airlines, network tv and radio are beyond reproach? Why is that?

You need to start with facts and this has nothing to do with whether or no an organization is capable or mis or malfeasance.

Although not directly related to the plane shaped hole, the conspiracy you allude to requires so many people to plan, execute and silence (witnesses to floor removal for example) it begs credulity.

And why bother? What has accomplished by a faking a plane shaped hole or whatever your thesis is?

The TPTB will and DO turn any disaster to something to advance their agenda. Who would deny that the DOD would be jumping for joy if we were attacked so they could play war, get new war toys and make people rich doing it. The fact is that US policies laid the ground work for insurgencies... it's called blow back. You abuse and the abuse will take or or they won't. When they don't they strike back. It happens to every empire or conqueror.

The Arab world, the Arab street and Islamists has reason to be pissed at the USA... And they've engaged in terrorism for decades including tossing my then next door neighbor Irving Klinghoffer off the Achilles Lauro.

The plot to use planes as bombs... kamikaze was nothing new and there was the Bojinka plot which failed when the bomb makers factory exploded.

The damage to the facade is consistent with a huge jet slamming into it. You don't think so. But you don't appear to understand the physics or the engineering.

 

[yankee451]

You can see floors collapsed and what about 2wtc... where's YOUR evidence that there were no floors there?

I assume you are aware there is very, very little photographic evidence of the WTC2 gash? This is why Purdue used WTC1, and this was also mentioned in the video this thread is about. The topic is the Plane Shaped Hole in the North Tower, but if you have a cache of photos of the South Tower I'd be very interested in studying them.

Besides, if the floors collapsed the floors below them what was holding up the pile of debris in the plane shaped hole?

What support the fire?... the material that was burning???

Okay, so considering they went to all this effort to remove bolts and floors to prepare the site for a fake terrorist attack, you don't think they'd want to have some fire and smoke to make the story more compelling? You do hear me only discussing the impact zone, right? There wasn't a whole lot of fire and smoke there, else Edna Cintron wouldn't have spent the morning there waving at the camera.

The bolts sheared or were pulled out as and entire panel was pushed inward with a force applied mid ht... the one it separated from received no lateral force... and was laterally braced by the floors below... so what happened is it remained intact and the bolts connecting it to the mangled one pushed inward were sheared or pulled through... heads or nuts popped.

You are guessing at a conclusion that fits what you saw on the television. There is no evidence to support the bolts being pulled through or heads or nuts popping, but there is evidence the bolts weren't there at strategic points, especially the "popped-out" column on the left "wing"

You see exactly this type of damage in many of the panels in the debris. Leverage pulled the bolts and popped the heads or nuts.

Please post images of these panels. I've seen more that look like the bolts weren't there.

http://yankee451.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/columns-with-bolts-removed.jpg
http://yankee451.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/columns-with-bolts-removed_courtyard-sculpture.jpg

 

[DGM]

You need to start with facts and this has nothing to do with whether or no an organization is capable or mis or malfeasance.

But.................that's the preface for all this work......

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

The topic is currently the Plane Shaped Hole. Makes scrutiny easier to examine the evidence in small chunks doncha think?

No, that's called "cherry picking" your evidence. You are a blind man describing an elephant. In your case you choose to deliberately ignore all the evidence, evidence which is internally and externally consistent and fabricate elaborate rational to explain the inconsistencies that your limited dataset gives you.

That and you mindlessly wave away evidence that contradicts your a priori conclusion using nothing more than Jedi Mind Tricks.

I'll get around to the evidence of planted plane parts and gravity defying wall-panels on another thread.

Oh, look! This is me not holding my breath waiting for you! There is zero "evidence" of planted plane parts, just obfuscation, confusion and intellectual dishonesty. I'm sorry you have been taken in by pseudofact mongers on the interwebz. You deserved a better education than you appear to be using.

If the video record was possible in the real world (it isn'

[watto]
What? You think you're some kind of Jedi, waving your hand around like that?
[/watto]

and if the damage was consistent with the direction of travel of what was shown on video, there would be no reason to question it (but it doesn't so there is.)

I dispute the entire thesis of the statement above. Your conclusions are false, your analysis of the data is false, and your peconcieved notions are preventing you from comprehending the facts in front of you.

Your "theory" flies in the face of all evidence. The only way it works is by narrowing your focus to misanalyzing "the plane shaped hole" on the impact side while Jedi-waving off the plane-debris-shaped damage on the downrange side of the building, the actual plane debris, and over 20 different videos showing the airplane coming in, impacting, causing the building to flex in the direction of impact, and the smoke plumes of the aircraft debris ejecta found downrange. You magically dismiss 5 million potential eye witnesses, you magically dismiss all the video, you magically dismiss physical evidence.

You have nothing on your side other than flawed analysis of a very limited dataset.

 

[yankee451]

You need to start with facts and this has nothing to do with whether or no an organization is capable or mis or malfeasance.

Is that what I need? Well lucky for me we have plenty of photographic evidence to examine to arrive at what is a "fact" and what is hearsay.

Although not directly related to the plane shaped hole, the conspiracy you allude to requires so many people to plan, execute and silence (witnesses to floor removal for example) it begs credulity.

So the "big lie" only applies to other people in other countries. Check.

And why bother? What has accomplished by a faking a plane shaped hole or whatever your thesis is?

The proof is in the pudding of the last 12 years: Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, etc, loss of liberty, loss of life, concentration of power, elimination of the competition, etc etc, etc, none of which would be possible without the consent of "we the people". Terror is a strong motivator.

The TPTB will and DO turn any disaster to something to advance their agenda. Who would deny that the DOD would be jumping for joy if we were attacked so they could play war, get new war toys and make people rich doing it. The fact is that US policies laid the ground work for insurgencies... it's called blow back. You abuse and the abuse will take or or they won't. When they don't they strike back. It happens to every empire or conqueror.

Who would deny that lacking such a motivator they would fabricate one, as history has proved is the rule, not the exception.

The Arab world, the Arab street and Islamists has reason to be pissed at the USA... And they've engaged in terrorism for decades including tossing my then next door neighbor Irving Klinghoffer off the Achilles Lauro.

You're repeating the advertising, whereas the Arabs have their own flavor. but it's all still provided by the same people who once broadcast cartoon jets doing the impossible.

The plot to use planes as bombs... kamikaze was nothing new and there was the Bojinka plot which failed when the bomb makers factory exploded.

It was news to Condi.

The damage to the facade is consistent with a huge jet slamming into it. You don't think so. But you don't appear to understand the physics or the engineering.

I understand propaganda and false bravado very well, and although my physics lessons were learned by falling off of skateboards I can recognize directional damage when I see it, as can any red-blooded American boy who's ever run a stick against a picket fence.

Here's a WTC1 and WTC2 comparison. Damage starts at floor level, we have 8 bent columns and then an inward-bursting hole. They could be cousins:

 

[yankee451]

No, that's called "cherry picking" your evidence. You are a blind man describing an elephant. In your case you choose to deliberately ignore all the evidence, evidence which is internally and externally consistent and fabricate elaborate rational to explain the inconsistencies that your limited dataset gives you.

That and you mindlessly wave away evidence that contradicts your a priori conclusion using nothing more than Jedi Mind Tricks.

So you'd suggest digesting ALL the evidence ALL at once. Have at it. I'll start with the scene of the crime first and then see how the rest of the evidence fits (or doesn't).

Oh, look! This is me not holding my breath waiting for you! There is zero "evidence" of planted plane parts, just obfuscation, confusion and intellectual dishonesty. I'm sorry you have been taken in by pseudofact mongers on the interwebz.

There is plenty of evidence to doubt the word of the NYPD, from which we get most of the "evidence" of plane parts.

You deserved a better education than you appear to be using.

Translation: "Why won't you conform!"

I dispute the entire thesis of the statement above. Your conclusions are false, your analysis of the data is false, and your peconcieved notions are preventing you from comprehending the facts in front of you.

Your "theory" flies in the face of all evidence. The only way it works is by narrowing your focus to misanalyzing "the plane shaped hole" on the impact side while Jedi-waving off the plane-debris-shaped damage on the downrange side of the building, the actual plane debris, and over 20 different videos showing the airplane coming in, impacting, causing the building to flex in the direction of impact, and the smoke plumes of the aircraft debris ejecta found downrange. You magically dismiss 5 million potential eye witnesses, you magically dismiss all the video, you magically dismiss physical evidence.

You have nothing on your side other than flawed analysis of a very limited dataset.

Be specific.

 

[DGM]

Is that what I need? Well lucky for me we have plenty of photographic evidence to examine to arrive at what is a "fact" and what is hearsay.

Exactly. And your expertise to tell us what we're looking at is? Tell us why your opinion is important again?

The proof is in the pudding of the last 12 years: Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, etc, loss of liberty, loss of life, concentration of power, elimination of the competition, etc etc, etc, none of which would be possible without the consent of "we the people". Terror is a strong motivator.

Has nothing to do with the plane shaped holes does it? Why can't you focus?

Who would deny that lacking such a motivator they would fabricate one, as history has proved is the rule, not the exception.

Again, nothing to do with the hole. Only shows your want for something other than the topic at hand. Focus.

You're repeating the advertising, whereas the Arabs have their own flavor. but it's all still provided by the same people who once broadcast cartoon jets doing the impossible.

You really don't want to defend your work do you?

I understand propaganda and false bravado very well, and although my physics lessons were learned by falling off of skateboards I can recognize directional damage when I see it, as any red-blooded American boy who's ever run a stick against a picket fence can.

More off topic.

Here's a WTC1 and WTC2 comparison. Damage starts at floor level, we have 8 bent columns and then an inward-bursting hole. They could be cousins:

[qimg]http://yankee451.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/trajectories-1.jpg[/qimg]

And? Are you warming up to talk science?

 

[Loss Leader]

The proof is in the pudding of the last 12 years: Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, etc, loss of liberty, loss of life, concentration of power, elimination of the competition, etc etc, etc, none of which would be possible without the consent of "we the people". Terror is a strong motivator.

It's odd, then, that most of the hijackers were Saudis. Surely, if the US wanted to foment public sentiment by staging an attack, they would have framed people who were actually from the countries you named. They were 15 Saudis, 2 UAE-ans, 1 Egyptian and 1 Lebanese. That is literally none of the four countries you named above.

 

[yankee451]

It's odd, then, that most of the hijackers were Saudis. Surely, if the US wanted to foment public sentiment by staging an attack, they would have framed people who were actually from the countries you named. They were 15 Saudis, 2 UAE-ans, 1 Egyptian and 1 Lebanese. That is literally none of the four countries you named above.

Wasn't relevant to the invaders, I'm not sure how it's relevant here.

 

[DGM]

Terror is a strong motivator.

I agree. Maybe you would be less afraid if you stuck to actual facts.

 

[DGM]

Wasn't relevant to the invaders, I'm not sure how it's relevant here.

It isn't.

Why did you bring it up? This thread is about the holes not the politics you think dictates them.

Are you looking for more post going to AAH for off topic? Focus.

 

[beachnut]

... I understand propaganda and false bravado very well, ...

And proved by your web site of woo, and your posts. Lies and fantasy made up using nothing. No physics, no math, no reality.

Yes, you understand propaganda, it is all you do.

So you'd suggest digesting ALL the evidence ALL at once. Have at it. I'll start with the scene of the crime first and then see how the rest of the evidence fits (or doesn't).



There is plenty of evidence to doubt the word of the NYPD, from which we get most of the "evidence" of plane parts.



Translation: "Why won't you conform!"



Be specific.

Translation, You can't do RADAR. RADAR is proof you are spreading lies. Ignore it, you don't understand it. Why are you claims all fantasies?
Why can't you refuet RADAR?

 

[HotRodDeluxe]

And around we go again with the evasion game avoiding the burden of proof, and in the midst of all this obfuscation, the twoofers expect to be taken seriously.

 

[yankee451]

And proved by your web site of woo, and your posts. Lies and fantasy made up using nothing. No physics, no math, no reality.

Yes, you understand propaganda, it is all you do.



Translation, You can't do RADAR. RADAR is proof you are spreading lies. Ignore it, you don't understand it. Why are you claims all fantasies?
Why can't you refuet RADAR?

I have an idea, since this thread is about the Plane Shaped Hole, why don't you go start a RADAR thread and I'll join you there?

 

[yankee451]

And around we go again with the evasion game avoiding the burden of proof, and in the midst of all this obfuscation, the twoofers expect to be taken seriously.

Oh contraire...I expect to be ridiculed, but then I'm not the one who took the photos of the damage no one seems willing to discuss. To wit, if JSANDERO claims the floors were so weak they pancaked onto the floors below, what could be holding up this floor?

http://yankee451.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/because-it-is-holding-up-all-this-debris.png

Once again, I've changed this over-sized image to a link as it messes up the formatting and readability of the thread. Please STOP posting oversized images like this.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: LashL

 

[beachnut]

I have an idea, since this thread is about the Plane Shaped Hole, why don't you go start a RADAR thread and I'll join you there?

Wow, your evidence to support your lie?
Now that is cute, all your evidence in .

I was wondering where you hide your evidence and it is in this, .

That is clever, the NSA can't figure that one out, .


RADAR proves you are spreading lies. It is about your fantasy, RADAR proves you wrong.

RADAR tracked 11 and 175 from take off to impact. The fact you are anti-education, and anti-government is most like the reason you failed to comprehend how silly your fantasy is when RADAR debunks your lies about 911.

RADAR is science, and you are anti-science, your work proves you are anti-science.

The fact you can't comprehend RADAR is on topic, speaks for itself. You wave you hands, and act as if RADAR does not exist.

The OP is nonsense, as it answers the question asked. You debunk yourself and you don't understand RADAR.

Then we have video in your video, which debunks you in 7 seconds. How silly can you be? Your video debunks your lies in 7 seconds. The quickest self-debunking in history. You are so silly, school of hard knocks, that is too bad, you can't get a refund from that school.

12 years and you diverge into a fantasy, and that is being kind.

 

[DGM]

I have an idea, since this thread is about the Plane Shaped Hole, why don't you go start a RADAR thread and I'll join you there?

We're still waiting for you to produce some evidence for what you think caused the holes. We're done and you haven't even started.

I was hoping you'd come back from your vacation with something...........anything.