Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

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Doubt it, they sent a letter at the beginning and have remained quiet as far as I know.

Oh. Well then in that case, I predict a Sollecito spontaneous statement about the computer results, and a full on assault from Bongiorno about the computer alibi.

I predict that Andrea Vogt will write and update that no one in the world will read.

I predict that Barbie Nadeau will receive a royalty check.
 
I guess it is either too late or too simple (or maybe both) to point out that Meredith was killed long before the prosecution's argument claims, and indeed at a time when Knox and Sollecito had an alibi?

This case is in la-la land.

Rolfe.
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Well said Rolfe, because THAT'S the "reasonable doubt" that the PGP camp ignores and instead uses double-talk and misinformation to prove their speculative evidence has no "reasonable doubt".

BRAVO!

d
 
Does anyone have any predictions for tomorrow’s court session, should or can Giulia Bongiorno go on the offensive.
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I predict someone will forget to flush a toilet just before Crini goes in to use it. Seconds later, Crini will come out in a murderous rage, seeking revenge on the person that did not flush. So be careful.
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Rinaldi is an idiot.

One thing more that does not belong to the court findings.

The prints simply do not match. The only one that is useful for probable identity is the one in Amanda's room and the second toe does not match,

You are wrong. It's true that there is a drop which you can identify with a second toe which does not match - this is one thing that actually, visually does not match with the second toe in Knox's print, contrarily to the other shenanigans and mincing "findings" by Bill Williams & c. I consider this as a serious argument. However, this argument is not sufficient, not comparable to the set of information which allows to attribute the footprints. However, I was saying, you are wrong on one thing: that the one in Knox's room is the only useful one. In fact, also the prints in the corridoor are useful. In particular, one can be attributed to an individual whose foot is compatible with Sollecito, and another print (n.7) was also found to be a probable identity with Knox.
Thus, there are two probable identities wit Knox and one probable identity with Sollecito in the luminol prints.

Plus, there is a probable identity with Sollecito on the bathmat print.

something that is glaringly obvious yet Rinaldi did not even address in his report.

And neither the defence questioned him, did them?

Most of the Luminol prints are blobs and establishing probable identity based on blobs is stupid.

They are also reactive to luminol, they are unusual since they are human bare foots wet in a mysterious substance, they have a very peculiar distribution in the house, they have a very peculiar and striking analogy with some bloody bare footprints in diluted blood on a bathmat (certainly related to the crime), they are found together with other luminol stains with peculiar features (a shoprint from the Guede shoeprint track which was cleaned, yielding a mixture of Meredith+Knox DNA), other luminol stains in Filomena's room, also yielding a very remarkable mixture of Knox+Meredith's DNA; and the prints compatible Knox also have Knox's DNA.
Moreover, thse were found in a context where there are towels soaked with blood, which were used to wipe the floor, and there is also a tale about someone showering and then shuffling a rag or a mat across the corridor.

Rinaldi is a biased non-expert who works for the cops,

He "works for the cops", what an ugly thing.

he is educated as an engineer and could not even explain where some of his measurements came from.

Rinaldi has a degree in physics (he was a student in Bologna when I was) and is specialized in forensically applied physics.

Another lying liar and cheating cheater, just like Stefanoni.

Of course, like all people you don't like. They are all very ugly.
 
Doubt it, they sent a letter at the beginning and have remained quiet as far as I know.

They haven't actually remained quiet. Their mouthpiece, as usual, has spouted off all kinds lies. They pay the guy; he's their agent. So, technically, they are saying what he says, and since he's been lying . . . well . . . you know.
 
As Stefanoni confirms in her testimony, once suspects had been arrested, they were barred from conducting scientific tests until such time as they had provided to the defendants notice and opportunity to be present.

In the case of the batches involving the knife, that testing started up on Monday, November 12.

There were, however, other tests that were conducted on November 6, apparently illegally, following the arrests of Knox and Sollecito. The interesting question is: did Stefanoni break the law when she conducted these tests (after suspect arrests but without notice), or did Mignini fail to advise the lab that it was prohibited from testing because suspects had been arrested that morning?

What a surprise it must have been to Mignini, when the results of the early testing came back to him on November 6 or 7, and the tests showed that the rapist and crapper were the same guy, and that guy was neither Sollecito nor Lumumba. Whoops.

I haven't looked at the SALs for some time so I can't say for certainty what testing was done and what date/time it was done (what, if any items were tested on November 6).

I think I remember that the SAL for the knife had the date of November 13 but you write that testing began on November 12 (a day prior). Perhaps that would account for items with a SAL date of November 6 - they were tested on November 5?

ETA: Re: the last paragraph - I am not certain of the November 13 date on the SAL - this is what I seem to recall but would have to look at the record to be certain.
 
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They haven't actually remained quiet. Their mouthpiece, as usual, has spouted off all kinds lies. They pay the guy; he's their agent. So, technically, they are saying what he says, and since he's been lying . . . well . . . you know.
I see, well you must be very disappointed with Amanda’s lawyers performance; I wonder they were retained?
 
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I haven't looked at the SALs for some time so I can't say for certainty what testing was done and what date/time it was done (what, if any items were tested on November 6).

I think I remember that the SAL for the knife had the date of November 13 but you write that testing began on November 12 (a day prior). Perhaps that would account for items with a SAL date of November 6 - they were tested on November 5?

The following were extracted on November 6, and I believe amplified and analyzed that same day:

Blood, Bathmat
Blood, Bathmat.
Blood, Bathmat.
Blood, Bathroom Lightswitch
(Blood) Faucet
Toilet Paper (Rudy)
Y, Toilet Paper (Rudy)
Toilet Paper (Rudy).
Y, Toilet Paper (Rudy)
Feces (Missing)
Meredith (Water glass) (LCN)
Downstairs. Lightswitch. (Missing)
Downstairs. Lightswitch. (Missing)
Lumumba Ref (Y=201)
Lumumba? (690)
Raf Reference (Y=202)
Y, Raf Reference (691)
Amanda Reference

The activity on the 12th appears to have been limited to cataloguing and photographing. Thus, the knife extraction occurred on November 13, as you noted.
 
clarification requested

I see, well you must be very disappointed with Amanda’s lawyers performance; I wonder they were retained?
I don't see the connection between what Diocletus said about Maresca and Amanda's (and what's his name's) lawyers.
 
I see, well you must be very disappointed with Amanda’s lawyers performance; I wonder they were retained?

Simple. Their lawyers were retained to defend their clients against falatious charges.

The Kerchers retained a lawyer to exact misplaced revenge by use of lies and slurs.


Not really a moral equivalence is it?
 
The following were extracted on November 6, and I believe amplified and analyzed that same day:

Blood, Bathmat
Blood, Bathmat.
Blood, Bathmat.
Blood, Bathroom Lightswitch
(Blood) Faucet
Toilet Paper (Rudy)
Y, Toilet Paper (Rudy)
Toilet Paper (Rudy).
Y, Toilet Paper (Rudy)
Feces (Missing)
Meredith (Water glass) (LCN)
Downstairs. Lightswitch. (Missing)
Downstairs. Lightswitch. (Missing)
Lumumba Ref (Y=201)
Lumumba? (690)
Raf Reference (Y=202)
Y, Raf Reference (691)
Amanda Reference

The activity on the 12th appears to have been limited to cataloguing and photographing. Thus, the knife extraction occurred on November 13, as you noted.

Looking at my list above, I see that I answered my own question from before: Stefanoni broke the law by conducting these tests, since she obviously was aware that there were arrested suspects at the time of testing, since she was testing their reference samples.

Silly me. I was ready to give Stefanoni a pass on this illegal behavior and blame it one Mignini, but now I see the error of my ways.
 
From Nov 2 to Nov 5 there WAS no defence team. Did that stop them from doing a DNA test on the knife or do a luminol examination of the floor in the hallway?

/QUOTE]

The stain was spotted for the first time by a defense expert well after the 5th.

Not sure about that Grinder,the Daily Mail ran a headline on 6 November 2007
"DID TWO MEN KILL MEREDITH"? Italians new theory over student murder.the article was written on the 5th so knew nothing about the following day arrests

The article went on to say

Yesterday reports in the Italian press(which would be the 4th)suggested that police were investigating whether samples of bodily fluids were from more than one man

The prosecution were telling the Italian press about their investigation and been picked up the day after by the British press,what it means the prosecution leaked about testing bodily fluid on the 4th of November and have been able to get away with saying for the following six years the bodily fluids found in Meredith's room was not tested
 
Looking at my list above, I see that I answered my own question from before: Stefanoni broke the law by conducting these tests, since she obviously was aware that there were arrested suspects at the time of testing, since she was testing their reference samples.

Silly me. I was ready to give Stefanoni a pass on this illegal behavior and blame it one Mignini, but now I see the error of my ways.

Even if Mignini "forgot" to file paperwork notifying Stefanoni or others that the individuals were under arrest (like he "claims" he drafted the requisite order to deny Knox and Sollecito access to a lawyer), there is no way for Stefanoni to credibly claim that she was unaware the individuals were under arrest when she tested items related to their case. The arrests were all over the media on Nov 6. I want to hear her explanation. :p
 
Not sure about that Grinder,the Daily Mail ran a headline on 6 November 2007
"DID TWO MEN KILL MEREDITH"? Italians new theory over student murder.the article was written on the 5th so knew nothing about the following day arrests

The article went on to say

Yesterday reports in the Italian press(which would be the 4th)suggested that police were investigating whether samples of bodily fluids were from more than one man

The prosecution were telling the Italian press about their investigation and been picked up the day after by the British press,what it means the prosecution leaked about testing bodily fluid on the 4th of November and have been able to get away with saying for the following six years the bodily fluids found in Meredith's room was not tested

I think they're talking about the vaginal and rectal swabs. That's what they were testing on November 5. And nope, there weren't two guys. The samples matched Rudy. Along with the poo samples.
 
Even if Mignini "forgot" to file paperwork notifying Stefanoni or others that the individuals were under arrest (like he "claims" he drafted the requisite order to deny Knox and Sollecito access to a lawyer), there is no way for Stefanoni to credibly claim that she was unaware the individuals were under arrest when she tested items related to their case. The arrests were all over the media on Nov 6. I want to hear her explanation. :p

She was too busy guarding against contamination to have noticed any news reports?
 
I see, well you must be very disappointed with Amanda’s lawyers performance; I wonder they were retained?

One was picked because he could speak English. Their performance has been disappointing but I'm sure some of it is because of the byzantine legal system in Italy.

Why do you keep repeating that these discussion boards won't influence the courts' decisions? We have all admitted that at most some small issue discovered here would be used, but even that is remote.
 
Not sure about that Grinder,the Daily Mail ran a headline on 6 November 2007
"DID TWO MEN KILL MEREDITH"? Italians new theory over student murder.the article was written on the 5th so knew nothing about the following day arrests

The article went on to say

Yesterday reports in the Italian press(which would be the 4th)suggested that police were investigating whether samples of bodily fluids were from more than one man

The prosecution were telling the Italian press about their investigation and been picked up the day after by the British press,what it means the prosecution leaked about testing bodily fluid on the 4th of November and have been able to get away with saying for the following six years the bodily fluids found in Meredith's room was not tested

In this regard, what has been previously observed on the subject is called to mind; with specific reference to the stains found on the pillowcase, particular mention of which was made by Sollecito’s defence *team+ during the trial and in the related illustrative memorandum, the following should be noted: even if a genetic investigation established the spermatic nature of these stains, such an investigation, as a rule, would not allow these stains to be dated and, in particular, it would not be possible to establish that they had been deposited on the night on which Meredith was killed. It having furthermore been established that Meredith had an active sexual life and at times had intercourse in her own room (cf. on this point the statements of her boyfriend Giacomo Silenzi) such an investigation, besides not being of a strictly necessary nature due to the impossibility of dating [i.e. establishing the date] (cf. what was elucidated on this aspect by the genetic experts), might also yield an entirely irrelevant outcome even for establishing the spermatic nature of those very stains and seems to be, therefore, a purely explorative activity, [which] is not permitted at this stage of the proceedings because it is lacking in the requirement for absolute necessity which was, on the contrary, requested.

Prof Vinci (defense expert) examined the pillowcase using Crimescope lighting and was the first to report the stain.

A semen stain was found on Meredith’s pillow which was never tested. The semen stain was found smeared by Rudy Guede’s shoe pattern found using a crimescope by defense forensic expert Francesco Vinci


Two articles in Italy recently reported that a defense expert found semen on Meredith Kercher's pillowcase. The expert is suspected to be coroner Fransesco Vinci, an expert who testified on behalf of Raffaele Sollecito. If true, how could police investigators have missed this? And whose semen is it? Will the American media take notice?

But, in a blow for Knox and Sollecito, the court rejected almost all their lawyers' requests for further evidence or testimony. For instance, the court said it would not analyse semen stains at the crime scene. It did, however, grant a defence request for photographs showing Sollecito's bitten-down fingernails to be considered as evidence
 
Has anybody been able to refute the argument that it is impossible (or very improbable) for the gastric contents to leave the stomach more than about 4 hours after the meal?
 
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