Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

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I still think this is heading for "split to new thread" territory. The "topic" is actually the murder of Meredith Kercher and the ensuing legal shenanigans, and while "look at this other case where the ISC judges are clearly off their collective rockers" may still be on-topic, the age of consent in Italy is more than pushing it.

Rolfe.
 
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I still think this is heading for "split to new thread" territory. The "topic" is actually the murder of Meredith Kercher and the ensuing legal shenanigans, and while "look at this other case where the ISC judges are clearly off their collective rockers" may still be on-topic, the age of consent in Italy is more than pushing it.

Rolfe.

Tell that to the dozens of writers who think that Amanda's sexuality was central to the case.
 
Sorry, but it is clearly on record that Amanda was over the age of 14, and indeed over the age of 18. Age of consent in Italy is not an issue.

Rolfe.
 
Sorry, but it is clearly on record that Amanda was over the age of 14, and indeed over the age of 18. Age of consent in Italy is not an issue.

Rolfe.

I'm confused.

What part of the sluttiness that Mignini brought to this with his ever changing theories, did Knox consent to?
 
Scazzi case

Sorry, but it is clearly on record that Amanda was over the age of 14, and indeed over the age of 18. Age of consent in Italy is not an issue.

Rolfe.
Rolfe,

I am sympathetic to the notion that the discussion of the case involving the 11-year old is tangential to the Knox/Sollecito case. However, the fact that a country has an age of consent of only 14 is open to question. Does it suggest that Italy has some backwards laws and attitudes toward young women? I would say that it is weak evidence of that, but I would also say that there is plenty of other evidence that also points roughly in the same direction. The Sarah Scazzi case comes to mind, and she was only 15. Her uncle may have been molesting her.
 
Rolfe,

I am sympathetic to the notion that the discussion of the case involving the 11-year old is tangential to the Knox/Sollecito case. However, the fact that a country has an age of consent of only 14 is open to question. Does it suggest that Italy has some backwards laws and attitudes toward young women? I would say that it is weak evidence of that, but I would also say that there is plenty of other evidence that also points roughly in the same direction. The Sarah Scazzi case comes to mind, and she was only 15. Her uncle may have been molesting her.

I agree Chris, and the fact that the highest court in the land is capable of assuming an 11 year old girl has enough maturity to know the difference between love and infatuation or manipulation is just insane.
 
I'm really curious about how much of an outcry in Italy has been raised about this case involving an 11 year. Does anyone know?
 
Could someone link me back to the Kercher murder discussion. I have somehow stumbled onto the pedophile discussion.
 
Rolfe,

I am sympathetic to the notion that the discussion of the case involving the 11-year old is tangential to the Knox/Sollecito case. However, the fact that a country has an age of consent of only 14 is open to question. Does it suggest that Italy has some backwards laws and attitudes toward young women? I would say that it is weak evidence of that, but I would also say that there is plenty of other evidence that also points roughly in the same direction. The Sarah Scazzi case comes to mind, and she was only 15. Her uncle may have been molesting her.

Yes the uncle also admitted to having sex with the dead 15 years olds body IIRC. All during a taped interrogation and confession and yet the uncle is free and the Aunt and niece are in jail.
 
Could someone link me back to the Kercher murder discussion. I have somehow stumbled onto the pedophile discussion.

First ...this topic is not called the Kercher murder discussion. It is the discussion of the AK/RS case as you can glance up and review the OP topic name.

The discussion of a crazy decision by the Italian Supreme Court is topical and this case involving an 11 year old victim perfectly illustrates how far out of touch the Italian judiciary actually is...all the way up to the the SC level.

The decision by the ISC in the 11 year olds case... which could not be any more clearly wrong, and that is also easily understood by even the stupidest person on earth (I understand that it is wrong for example) but somehow a panel of Italian judges cant see this. So...

This is the very same upper echelon of judges who overturned the RS/AK not guilty decision legally and properly decided in their 1st appeal trial by two judges and a panel of citizen judges. And frankly the excuse we can read in the ISC motivation for this overturning in the RS/AK case is on par as illogical as the motivation they recently pulled out of some nether region for this case of a 60 year old man caught naked in bed with an 11 year old girl.

Certainly it is not relevant how Italian citizens react to a child sexual abuse case...that is or should be a no-brainer for any civilized human being. It is abuse against a child and against a female.

This hints of a misogynistic society especially in the upper levels of the court system. And while it can be argued that the inclusion of RS in this discussion case makes the Italian judiciary seem an equal opportunity offender against facts and justice...those who have long followed the case understand perfectly well that RS was rarely mentioned in the 6 years so far. He is as if an afterthought. If there seems to be a serious lack of motivation in this case then there is an almost absent case against Sollecito.

Further proof that Italy enjoys punishing its women...be they 20 and slapped about the head or making excuses about an 11 year old and in "love" with a 60 year old. Both are abominations. Lets see what the Italian people do in their democratic country.

These are timely foolish decisions coming out of Italy's highest courts...both involve the destruction of young peoples lives...in cases that could not be more clearly defined by the known facts from each.

If Italy has laws on their books that make either of these cases seem like reasonably overturn-able matters then perhaps Italy needs to take another look at their laws.

Or perhaps they can stick their heads back into the sand. My bet is on the Ostrich play. I'm going with women hating dirty old men. Just my opinion of course.
 
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First ...this topic is not called the Kercher murder discussion. It is the discussion of the AK/RS case as you can glance up and review the OP topic name.

The discussion of a crazy decision by the Italian Supreme Court is topical and this case involving an 11 year old victim perfectly illustrates how far out of touch the Italian judiciary actually is...all the way up to the the SC level.

The decision by the ISC in the 11 year olds case... which could not be any more clearly wrong, and that is also easily understood by even the stupidest person on earth (I understand that it is wrong for example) but somehow a panel of Italian judges cant see this. So...

This is the very same upper echelon of judges who overturned the RS/AK not guilty decision legally and properly decided in their 1st appeal trial by two judges and a panel of citizen judges. And frankly the excuse we can read in the ISC motivation for this overturning in the RS/AK case is on par as logical as the motivation they recently pulled out of some nether region for this case of a 60 year old man caught naked in bed with an 11 year old girl.

Certainly it is not relevant how Italian citizens react to a child sexual abuse case...that is or should be a no-brainer. It is abuse against a child and against a female.

This hints of a misogynistic society especially in the upper levels of the court system. And while it can be argued that the inclusion of RS in this discussion case makes the Italian judiciary seem an equal opportunity offender against facts and justice...those who have long followed the case understand perfectly well that RS was rarely mentioned in the 6 years so far. He is as if an afterthought. If there seems to be a serious lack of motivation in this case then there is an almost absent case against Sollecito.

Further proof that Italy enjoys punishing its women...be they 20 and slapped about the head or making excuses about an 11 year old and in "love" with a 60 year old. Both are abominations. Lets see what the Italian people do in their democratic country.

These are timely foolish decisions coming out of Italy's highest courts...both involve the destruction of young peoples lives...in cases that could not be more clearly defined by the known facts from each.

If Italy has laws on their books that make either of these cases seem like reasonably overturn-able then perhaps Italy needs to take another look at their laws.

Or perhaps they can stick their heads back into the sand. My bet is on the Ostrich play. I'm going with women hating dirty old men. Just my opinion of course.

I am sorry for speaking out of turn. I had no right to do that. And you are of course correct. It does show the insanity involved in the Italian justice system.
 
This hints of a misogynistic society especially in the upper levels of the court system. And while it can be argued that the inclusion of RS in this discussion case makes the Italian judiciary seem an equal opportunity offender against facts and justice...those who have long followed the case understand perfectly well that RS was rarely mentioned in the 6 years so far. He is as if an afterthought. If there seems to be a serious lack of motivation in this case then there is an almost absent case against Sollecito.

Further proof that Italy enjoys punishing its women...be they 20 and slapped about the head or making excuses about an 11 year old and in "love" with a 60 year old. Both are abominations. Lets see what the Italian people do in their democratic country.

Or perhaps they can stick their heads back into the sand. My bet is on the Ostrich play. I'm going with women hating dirty old men. Just my opinion of course.



As a woman, I can assure you we do hate dirty old men, they are disgusting. As someone who has spent time in Italy, I can also assure you women are considered lesser than men. I saw incident after incident of egregious behavior toward women on the part of men. It is part of their culture.
 
<snip>Or perhaps they can stick their heads back into the sand. My bet is on the Ostrich play. I'm going with women hating dirty old men. Just my opinion of course.

As a woman, I can assure you we do hate dirty old men, they are disgusting. As someone who has spent time in Italy, I can also assure you women are considered lesser than men. I saw incident after incident of egregious behavior toward women on the part of men. It is part of their culture.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think Randy left out a hyphen between "women" and "hating." Nonetheless, it works on both levels. :D
 
...

This is the very same upper echelon of judges who overturned the RS/AK not guilty decision legally and properly decided in their 1st appeal trial by two judges and a panel of citizen judges. And frankly the excuse we can read in the ISC motivation for this overturning in the RS/AK case is on par as illogical as the motivation they recently pulled out of some nether region for this case of a 60 year old man caught naked in bed with an 11 year old girl.

Let's not forget that while overturning the Hellman's acquittals on utterly spurious grounds, the ISC upheld the guilty callunia verdict, that was riven with legal issues.
...

If Italy has laws on their books that make either of these cases seem like reasonably overturn-able matters then perhaps Italy needs to take another look at their laws.

I'll go with the view that the ISC simply disregarded their own laws and acted on personal whim.
 
As a woman, I can assure you we do hate dirty old men, they are disgusting. As someone who has spent time in Italy, I can also assure you women are considered lesser than men. I saw incident after incident of egregious behavior toward women on the part of men. It is part of their culture.
His sister Pam works in a shop
She never stops, she's a go-getter
Takes him out to look at the Queen
Only place that he's ever been
Always shouts out something obscene
Such a dirty old man
Dirty old man
 
Could someone link me back to the Kercher murder discussion. I have somehow stumbled onto the pedophile discussion.
This question is best for Machiavelli, but it is one that has been much on my mind.
2 judges and 6 lay jurors equals 8
my understanding is 4 all means acquittal.

1. Can 4 lay jurors guarantee acquittal?
2. How does a motivations report look if Nencini votes to convict, but is in the <=4 camp?

Nencini in no way looks inclined to be overruled on anything, yet votes is votes.
 
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