Merged Global Warming Discussion II: Heated Conversation

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Arnold Martin said:
Fair enough , and I completely agree both sides have managed to muddy the waters of respectable science .

But the problem does not lie with me , it is both the politicians and (some) scientists who have blended the two

Do you not agree that scientists who do not endorse AGW have been muzzled and called heretics and deniers ? Since when did science become so politically one sided ? . This troubles me greatly

From now on I will try to avoid the political comments , besides I feel I have given it a good kick anyway

But I will also stand my ground and claim my science and observations are exactly what goes on in the arctic in the past 8 years and it is completely at odds with AGW "scientific predictions"

They started it , not me.

Best wishes from the frozen arctic .... where we actually wish Global warming was happening .

And dont worry about the Polar Bears .... they sometimes swim to Russia just for the heck of it.
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You have it backwards, far more scientists who support AGW have been attacked. But I really don't want to go there.

If you want to discuss the predictions and the observations, we would need to establish what the predictions actually are and what the observations actually are. For a start, we have to agree that your personal observations don't count for much compared to all the observations collected by scientists all over the world for decades.
 
ideogram said:
This is just a crazy conspiracy theory.
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I have never been a conspiracy theory follower .... they always leave out all the facts that do not support their wild imaginations.

The UN cannot control the weather and they know it. They desire only things they can control. They envision a perfect dictatorship of like minded people. I wish there was a better word than dictatorship , but there is not

Thank you
AM
 
Arnold Martin said:
I have never been a conspiracy theory follower .... they always leave out all the facts that do not support their wild imaginations.

The UN cannot control the weather and they know it. They desire only things they can control. They envision a perfect dictatorship of like minded people. I wish there was a better word than dictatorship , but there is not

Thank you
AM
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The UN???
 
Jules Galen said:
I mean, an Investment Bank making a substantial market in carbon Credits would control many of the world's largest corporations - and they could choose winners and loosers at will. Likewise, a large refining company could effectively shut-out it's smaller competition by out-bidding them for carbon Credits and then pass that cost on to the customer.

Thus...the max amount of carbon that any corporation could produce would only be effectively limited by the cash flow they could get the Investment Banks to front them. However, the consumer would ultimately pay the bill.
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You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. None.
 
Arnold Martin said:
Not at all sir .... and by the way part of the title of this thread is ... "heated Conversation" ... and all I am trying to do is cool it down a bit ..... but I plead guilty to having a blend of tongue in cheek while being completely serious.

We could bury ourselves in back and forth statistics from both sides (and I am capable) but I have reverted to simple brutal truths that undermine the Warming agenda.

I have been a member of this forum for a year but just began posting yesterday

My motive is thus .... I am on Hudson Bay solid Ice watching Polar bears eat seals earlier in the season than normal.

..... Ice that is not supposed to be there (according to the warmists) and bears who were all going to drown (according to the warmists)

Why do CNN & CBC & The Sierra Club not plaster that all over the news (as good news)

Because they continue to deny that the deniers were correct and they want to save themselves the embarrassment

And speaking of embarrassment , notice how a majority of the "Important Warmists" from days gone by have gone silent because the weather did not cooperate with what they prophesied ??

I urge everyone here not to set themselves up for further embarrassment .

It is not a bad thing to admit you have been suckered. Besides you can blame it on the 3 tactics of a brainwash that was used to start this whole effort to control world energy (by controlling the worlds exhaust pipes)
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the deniers are not correct. what the heck are you talking about,
 
Arnold Martin said:
I have indeed been well paid in my career , but I assure you I am an individual entrepreneur businessman and have been self sustained since 1966 when I quit school in grade 9.
I have never been beholden to Koch nor any energy company. As a matter of fact I have often been hired by environmentalists and news crews to do aerial videos and flights to location ... and I am beholden to them .... they always make me sign a non-disclosure and I always honor it ..... otherwise I could tell you things that would make your knees tremble.

Below I have made a coded prediction that we will re-visit a bit later.

ANAHAM-THPOHG9EATURN-AHAIKI
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that explains a lot.
 
Arnold Martin said:
I have never been a conspiracy theory follower .... they always leave out all the facts that do not support their wild imaginations.

The UN cannot control the weather and they know it. They desire only things they can control. They envision a perfect dictatorship of like minded people. I wish there was a better word than dictatorship , but there is not

Thank you
AM
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lol you are a conspiracy theorist. but you are even in denial about this..... sad
 
Arnold Martin said:
But I will also stand my ground and claim my science and observations are exactly what goes on in the arctic in the past 8 years and it is completely at odds with AGW "scientific predictions"
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Even if I pretend for a moment that eight years is a long enough period for climate trends to be reliably detected (which of course it isn't) I still can't see how events in the Arctic in the last 8 years are at odds with predictions. Last year saw summer sea ice extent at a record low and, although it's bounced back this year, it's still less than it was eight years ago - and considerably less than it was when satellite monitoring started in 1979.

If anything the decline has been faster than originally predicted; when I first started following this subject about 15 years ago most climatologists were predicting that we'd see the Arctic ice free at the September minimum by about 2080, but at the current rate of decline (13.7% per decade) it could happen quite a bit sooner than that.

http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/2013/10/
 

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trustbutverify said:
I believe their inclusion is offered as evidence against AGW since polar bears and polar ice still exist.
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That would be puerile, as there's AGW, polar bears and polar ice, all together. It's like saying that the vaquita is not an endangered species by showing photos of a refuge area.

I think it comes more from AM's limitations to follow logical lines of reasoning and replace everything with caricaturization, like his strawmen.
 
DC said:
lucky we do not have to rely on some heli pilot in the Arctic to see what the climate system is doing up there.

http://climate.nasa.gov/news/1014
Arctic waters kept warming in 2013
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You said ... Arctic waters kept warming in 2013 ... and you conveniently cherry picked the page for August 2013 ... because August temps were warmer than the 1982-2006 average

But here is what I read ........ In comparison to 2012, most indicators this year (2013) were closer to their long-term averages
Furthermore the year has not ended yet .... the last 2 months have been colder than normal and came earlier than normal so I expect that when final 4 months temps come in 2013 will be in line with the long term average.

Your warming numbers are slender and without sufficient room for the extra cold temps rite now . If we were sitting across from each other I would bet a $grand 2014 will come out within long term averages.
 
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DC said:
Not Just Koch Brothers: New Study Reveals Funders Behind Climate Change Denial Effort

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/12/131220154511.htm
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Yeah .... well if you want something scary look at who funds your side , look deep my friend , look deep.

Koch produces gas for your car , jetA for my helicopter , fertilizer for the veggies and cereal we eat , and steak for our barbeque. They are not the enemy

In his 1960's book .... "A Business Man Looks at Communism" ... Koch wrote that he found the USSR to be "a land of hunger, misery, and terror.

The warmists wish the whole world was like that , at least that is what would happen if we quit burning fossil fuel like we are. Fossil fuels are the best thing to ever advance mankind.

Next time you fly out to an environmental meeting thank Koch and Boeing
 
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