Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Poppy1016]

It's right by the part where Mignini says this was a satanic ritual sex killing that should have happened on Halloween but was delayed due to a prior dinner engagement...why cant you understand that?

Oh and who was at this dinner? Why the mortal enemies Kercher and Knox...oddly both last names start with the letter K which is the secret Mason symbol meaning Kawitch...so Ka nox is the witch and if the Italians would simply have compared her weight to a duck this whole thing would be long ago solved and over with...

Massei is an idiot...who cares what he said...He said thousands of stupid illogical and nothing to do with the case things...and he was stupid enough to write down these stupid things for the whole world to review...kinda like Stefanoni recording her work...what a moron. She should have stuck to the Italian way....said she recorded it but that somehow the recording is lost, burned up, rusted...whatever. Clowns all defended by more clowns who never remember to remove their red rubber noses. (Especially Maresca

I really like your style . You say things that I think.

 

[Strozzi]

There also is no connection between Rudy and Raffaele. No emails, no texts, no phone calls ever. Rudy spent all his time playing basketball breaking into homes and businesses. While Raffaele's was a student who was working on his degree.

Let's not forget that in addition to working on his IT degree, Raffaele spent a lot of time on his computer surfing the web, sending emails, listening to music, watching movies. He did a lot of that, including evenings, at night, even very early morning. Just look at his computer - it's in police custody - and you will see his online activities the night Meredith was killed.

 

[Poppy1016]

No, the fact that the hook was forced is evidence from its deformation, an effect of pulling it, by someone who was unacccustomed to opening bra clasps. And what you say it's not true: you don't need to even touch the fabric in order to force the clasp. You can do it by just grabbing the metal parts with your fingers.

Sollecito's DNA - and no Guede's DNA - was on the metal clasp. And the clasp has been forced.

Guede's DNA trace was instead on a side of the bra, too far from the clasp to be useful point to apply force while attempting to open it. And there is no DNA trace of Guede on the clasp or close to it,
There is no evidence a human hand tore this fabric. As long as the stich line is uncut that may offer an even grater resistence than the metal hook. You would need a considerable, rather extreme force to tear that with your hands. And there is no trace of hand grabbing its extremties. Actually, I think that you need a knife to cut the stiches. That's what a thin knife would easilly do.

You haven't removed a woman's bra have you ?

 

[acbytesla]

I wouldn't expect the clasp itself to be touched. Pulling on the fabric to which it is attached would pull it open. You couldn't "open it by force" by touching it directly with your fingers. You have probably already guessed that I don't subscribe to the multiple attacker theory.

I also think that the time lapse & relocation of the clasp along with the visibly dirty gloves of Ms. Stefanoni disqualify it as a reliable source of DNA evidence. If you are going to use evidence to send someone to jail for the next 25 years, you need to hold yourself to high standards.

Absolutely excellent analysis andrea. You couldn't get any leverage at all with your fingers directly on the clasp, whereas the fabric creates a lever which makes it possible to bend open the wire clasp..

 

[Poppy1016]

Don't obfuscate. You are not acusing magistrates of being wrong. You are accusing magistrates - many of them, but also a number of other people, and also superior institutions such as the Supreme Court - of being an incredibly organized bunch of corrupt criminals running a huge conspiracy apparently bigger than the Dreyfuss affair.

BINGO !

 

[Bill Williams]

Don't obfuscate. You are not acusing magistrates of being wrong. You are accusing magistrates - many of them, but also a number of other people, and also superior institutions such as the Supreme Court - of being an incredibly organized bunch of corrupt criminals running a huge conspiracy apparently bigger than the Dreyfuss affair.

BINGO !

Machiavelli - you have accused Hellmann and Zanetti of being corrupt criminals. You even claim to know the amount of Euros from the Masons needed to buy off Hellmann.....

 

[Poppy1016]

Machiavelli - you have accused Hellmann and Zanetti of being corrupt criminals. You even claim to know the amount of Euros from the Masons needed to buy off Hellmann.....

I really wish that Hellman, Conti, Vechiotti, and eventually Amanda and Rafael, would bring slander charges against him.

 

[Antony]

No, the fact that the hook was forced is evidence from its deformation, an effect of pulling it, by someone who was unacccustomed to opening bra clasps. And what you say it's not true: you don't need to even touch the fabric in order to force the clasp. You can do it by just grabbing the metal parts with your fingers.
Sollecito's DNA - and no Guede's DNA - was on the metal clasp. And the clasp has been forced.

It's not just that you make these kind of obviously absurd claims that's breathtaking. It's that you make such a brazen act of actually believing them.

Guede's DNA trace was instead on a side of the bra, too far from the clasp to be useful point to apply force while attempting to open it. And there is no DNA trace of Guede on the clasp or close to it, remember that.



There is no evidence a human hand tore this fabric. As long as the stich line is uncut that may offer an even grater resistence than the metal hook. You would need a considerable, rather extreme force to tear that with your hands. And there is no trace of hand grabbing its extremties. Actually, I think that you need a knife to cut the stiches. That's what a thin knife would easilly do.

Have you not even reflected on the amount of time and care it would take to cut the stitches with a knife?

 

[NancyS]

It gets more and more curious - we now can add a magic bra into the mix. Even more crazy than being able to sniff out a psychopath - perhaps the prosecution could retrain as sniffer dogs as they are shockingly bad at their current jobs

 

[Dan O.]

No, the fact that the hook was forced is evidence from its deformation, an effect of pulling it, by someone who was unacccustomed to opening bra clasps. And what you say it's not true: you don't need to even touch the fabric in order to force the clasp. You can do it by just grabbing the metal parts with your fingers.

Sollecito's DNA - and no Guede's DNA - was on the metal clasp. And the clasp has been forced.

Guede's DNA trace was instead on a side of the bra, too far from the clasp to be useful point to apply force while attempting to open it. And there is no DNA trace of Guede on the clasp or close to it, remember that.



There is no evidence a human hand tore this fabric. As long as the stich line is uncut that may offer an even grater resistence than the metal hook. You would need a considerable, rather extreme force to tear that with your hands. And there is no trace of hand grabbing its extremties. Actually, I think that you need a knife to cut the stiches. That's what a thin knife would easilly do.

The stiching from the point where the sholder strap connects to the band all the way down to where the clasp piece is stitched to that band. Individually those cotton threads making the stitch are not all that tough. They snap one at a time as the force of separation is transferred down the line.

It wasn't just the end of the hook that was deformed on the clasp. One of the hooks was pulled nearly clear of the fabric. The force required to do that would rip the nail right off the finger that tried to pull it. It wasn't a finger trying to pry up the hook. it was Rudy's hand pulling up on the back band right below her sholder as the weight of Meredith's limp body pulls down on the other side.

This is another point that should be captured on video showing the bra comming apart without cutting.

 

[RWVBWL]

pretty girl vs Damn Beautiful

He had a habit of hanging out with girls, like a lot of us. The two last nights before the murder he was out with Spanish girls.

Yes that's what he did.

Heya Grinder + Machiavelli,

From Rudy Guede's Diary:
"I remember that I asked one
of the guys, who lived upstairs (to him) and he told me
“Two Italian girls, Amanda, and an English girl.” I said
“Lucky, just like me” because where I lived, upstairs
there were 2 Italian girls, 2 Spanish girls, and two
Mexican girls. Before that, 2 Italian girls, 1 Cypriot girl,
and 1 Japanese girl lived there."

Gosh, it seems like Rudy was surrounded by girls,
wonder why he hadn't had a girlfriend for many months?

It's actualy one reason more to think that he may have hung out with Amanda as well,
and that it was unlikely that he had any urge to assail and rape Meredith.

Mach, you really need to read Rudy's own words, friend!
More from Rudy Guede's Diary:

"I went to the home of these guys for the first time, even
though it had been four months since I first spotted
them playing basketball together. It was that evening
that they gave me the nickname "Baron Davis." In the
meantime, Amanda went to her house. The guys living
downstairs entered their house. We all began to
critique Amanda, some more, some less, in the sense
that she was a pretty girl. Some imagined doing it with
her, etc., etc… Stuff that all guys do, some more, some
less. That evening, I don’t remember exactly what I
said about her, but to go to bed with her, yes, because
all of us guys ended up with that as the goal. Then
one of the guys (I don’t remember their names well)
began to prepare a joint and I asked if I had to pay, and
they said “Of course not.” We began to smoke in the
house. ”Smoking,” I put that in quotes. We imagined
ourselves, each one of us, with Amanda in bed. We
were guys at home, what were we supposed to be
thinking, if not this? Then I heard a knock at the door
and who was it?" Amanda. We all looked at each other
and laughed.
<snip>
"Later I heard knocking at the
door. I opened it, and a girl came in. It was Meredith.
She came in, she looked at me, and I looked at her.
Damn, she was Beautiful."


Mach,
I'd wager that it was Meredith that Rudy really wanted...
And you do know that it was Rudy Guede's DNA that was found inside Miss Kerchers's genitalia, right?

Maybe you didn't get the memo,
but Guede had had a bad date with a "guy" just a few days before he deposited his DNA inside of Meredith as she died.

1 more quote from poor Rudy:
"I told Philip I had to go meet someone, and he
jokingly asked me if it was a guy or a girl. I pointed out
it was a girl, because he was referring to an awful onenight
stand that happened to me a few days before,
regarding a “guy.”


So I talked it over with my gay bro, a dude with whom I kayak with miles offshore here in L.A.
A dude who at 48, just had a great 1 night stand with a 22 year old neighbor who knocked on his door late the other night, hahaha...

Now whether Rudy was bangin' a "guy" and couldn't perform,
or maybe he was catchin' instead of pitchin' and it hurt awful, who knows?.
Esh, maybe the "guy" was a recent convert to a girl.
Or just some girl who looked like a "guy"?

I don't know, but I'd sure as heck bet that after an awful 1 night stand just a few days earlier,
Rudy Guede found Meredith Kercher Damn Beautiful.
Esh, he even writes it so, with a capital "B"!

 

[RWVBWL]

The 30 meters distance is a reasons for doubting about Curatolo's identification. But there are also other reasons for believing Curatolo's identifications of the two suspects. The courts who listened to him decided the reasons to believe him were predominant.
The court who dismissed his testimony (the Hellmann Zanetti court) did so only on illegitimate and prejudicial grounds, which the SC found to be unfounded, therefore unacceptable.

Anyway Curatolo is only a marginal witness. He does not actually provide any determinant information. The defendatns alibies are already proven to be false, independently from Curatolo's testimony.
Probably the judge would assess his testimony also based on its marginal value. It's not that important that the standard of proof is that high. He may be counted as an elemento like on a "probable case" level, and therefore they decided to believe him: because he is marginal, unnencessary. It's only one element more that merely reinforces the others.

Harry Potter was only 30 meters away and "Toto" couldn't ID him?
The high on heroin guy needs glasses!

 

[Antony]

I point out that - what I think the evidence shows - is that there was no real "murderous fight". There was no real fight: Meredith was immobilized almost completely by the overwhelming force of multiple individuals.
The immobilization of the victim is one of the most striking and disturbing elements that the physical/autopsy evidence shows, imho.

There was no fight - we can agree on that. But Meredith was not immobilised by multiple attackers; she was immobilised by fear because a bigger, stronger, male intruder was holding a knife to her throat.

Is there anything about that that's difficult to understand?

 

[NancyS]

Is Machiavelli really trying to argue that people only assault and rape people they find attractive? That shows such an incredible lack of insight into rape and violence against women - it's a fairly offensive attitude and runs alongside the idea of blaming victims of sexual violence for either their appearance or dress. Sexual violence is so much more complicated than only attacking people they find attractive

 

[Strozzi]

I think it would be a rare person that could recognise two people they had never met, from a distance and at night - and then hold onto that memory for at least 5-days when he would see Amanda and Raffaele in the news following their arrest. Both Amanda and Raffaele are mousy haired, plainly dressed and have no instantly recognisable features and I can't imagine they would stand out from the thousands of other students in Perugia

Nancy, Curatolo not only held onto his memory of seeing Amanda and Raffaele for 5 days before seeing photos in the papers naming them as the defendants, it was several months before he "remembered" seeing them in the piazza the night young people in masks boarded buses for the discotheques.

When questioned by a police investigator the day after the murder if he had seen anything the night of the murder, he answered no.

He testified in 3 murder cases. He was a semi-pro witness.

 

[RoseMontague]

Guede's DNA trace was instead on a side of the bra, too far from the clasp to be useful point to apply force while attempting to open it. And there is no DNA trace of Guede on the clasp or close to it, remember that.

This is not correct. Stefanoni points out Guede's DNA was found at location B, which is the end of the band right next to where the clasp would connect.

 

[JREF2010]

This is not correct. Stefanoni points out Guede's DNA was found at location B, which is the end of the band right next to where the clasp would connect.

Do you know who will explain all this DNA science and forensics to this Florence panel of judges?

 

[RoseMontague]

Do you know who will explain all this DNA science and forensics to this Florence panel of judges?

It has just been done, yet again. The real question is if they will judge fairly after reviewing the evidence for themselves which they should do when they are getting two different interpretations from the lawyers. I am afraid I share some of Charlie's pessimism on this. But we will find out soon.

 

[Strozzi]

The second murder weapon

I think I found a photo of the second murder weapon.

Since the bra strap was not actually cut, but rather the strap threads were severed, this is the knife that Raffaele would have had to have had with him to cut the clasp off the bra strap:
http://howdidyoumakethis.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/step4a.JPG

Either that, or the threads broke from force as Rudy grabbed the bra strap near the shoulder and pulled, dragging the victim to the center of the room where he sexually assaulted her.

 

[Grinder]

It has just been done, yet again. The real question is if they will judge fairly after reviewing the evidence for themselves which they should do when they are getting two different interpretations from the lawyers. I am afraid I share some of Charlie's pessimism on this. But we will find out soon.

Rose do you have a complete or at least a fuller account of what the defense did this week? I saw AV's, but it seems from that they only spoke for a short time. I thought the prosecution took more than one court day.