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Is Atheism based on Logic or Faith?

Brainache said:
No it hasn't.

The sky is not spread out like a tent over the land. poetic as it is, it is not a valid Cosmological metaphor.

Maybe if he said: "The sky is void through which the world spins around the sun like a ball around the lip of a well", or something, you might have a point.

The quran is full of ancient misconceptions like that. It shows no deeper insight into the nature of the Universe than one would expect to find in any 7th century Arabian writings.
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But, Earth is like ostrich egg. Is miracle!
 
Per the end of lengthy post #1....where can i read any consensus where ``infinite regression`` is both illogical and `old hat`?
 
HansMustermann said:
...
Can something come out of nothing? Actually it happens all the time. The Casimir effect and Hawking radiation are both based on virtual particles and their anti-particle being created out of nothing all the time. And especially the former is extremely well supported experimentally.

So, yes, not only something is created from nothing, but it happens all the time....
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I totally agree that the OP's statement is complete nonsense, but i find your particular argument here almost as annoying, and unfortunately it is used too frequently in these one-sided debates. You know darn well what the meanings of 'something' and 'nothing'. Here, from the very wiki aritcle you cite:
However, even the vacuum has a vastly complex structure, so all calculations of quantum field theory must be made in relation to this model of the vacuum.

The vacuum has, implicitly, all of the properties that a particle may have: spin, or polarization in the case of light, energy, and so on

So, this vacuum is not "nothing" unless you want to limit 'something' to things that have measurable mass.

It is much more prudent to simply respond that If the Deity has always existed (or arose out of nothing) then matter or 'something' could just as easily always have existed (or arose out of nothing). Since the latter statement is simpler and doesn't require concocting some intelligent being to get things going, it is the preferred statement logically.
 
Brainache said:
No it hasn't.

The sky is not spread out like a tent over the land. poetic as it is, it is not a valid Cosmological metaphor.

Maybe if he said: "The sky is void through which the world spins around the sun like a ball around the lip of a well", or something, you might have a point.

The quran is full of ancient misconceptions like that. It shows no deeper insight into the nature of the Universe than one would expect to find in any 7th century Arabian writings.
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Surah 23:14 makes the claim that human beings are formed from a clot of blood. Surah 18:86 claims that the sun sets in a spring of murky water.

[source] http://www.gotquestions.org/errors-Quran.html#ixzz2mvD9Nbcl
 
ehcks said:
1: All that we know remains after someone dies is the physical changes they made to the world and the memories left behind in people who know them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xByO0jhtceY

2: Anything else is a result of the fear of death, the fear of not existing.
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1: Certainly this might be true for a small percentage of human beings, that the fact of their life is 'kept alive' through the process of those who nurture the memory of them having existed...passed on from one generation to the next etc.

2: Too sweeping a statement. It may be why you personally have no belief in continuation of your personal consciousness but it is not necessarily so for everyone.
It would be like someone claiming that 'lack of fear of not existing prompts belief in no afterlife' - an equally sweeping statement.

Humans are far more diverse than that.
 
mikeb768 said:
Yeah but you don't know this to be true, there is no way to prove this understanding which you have describe, or the concept which is spoke of in the song you posted.

Expect Death
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Neither do we know not know that after life we get tortured forever by mouse for all the evil we did to them, because the "god" chosen people are rodent.

Neither do we not know that ONLY warrior killed in fight get into afterlife brought by the valkyrie.

Etc...

So among the hundreds, if not thousands of afterlife nobody know which one is correct.

But what we do know, is that there is no evidence whatsoever of any thing after life. And all evidence point to that with brain dying, the "self" dies. There is no evidence of "self" separated from the brain.


Soooo. Good luck with touting your own version of gods and afterlife.
 
mikeb768 said:
We don't know where God came from? Although we do know the attributes of God which he has chosen to reveal to us.

Say, "He is God, [who is] One,
God, the Eternal Refuge.
He neither begets nor is born,
Nor is there to Him any equivalent."
[Quran 112:1-4]
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That and a dollar will get you a cuppa...
 
mikeb768 said:
We don't know where God came from? Although we do know the attributes of God which he has chosen to reveal to us.

Say, "He is God, [who is] One,
God, the Eternal Refuge.
He neither begets nor is born,
Nor is there to Him any equivalent."
[Quran 112:1-4]
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This can be said of the god of the bible too. Yet generally they are seen to be separate entities at odds or in competition with one another - due of course to the expressions of their supporters (those who believe in them) and while I cannot with confidence comment on the contradictory nature of the Quran, I would not be surprised if it isn't any more or less contradictory than the Bible.
 
Navigator said:
I think that in relation to the thread question "Is Atheism based on Logic or Faith?" logic says there is no way to know for sure, faith allows for the belief that the guess (there is no god, gods, afterlife, continuation of personal consciousness etc) is the right thing to believe/have faith in.
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Logic says you should use only explanation based on evidence and axiom to draw conclusion. "Agnostic-Atheism" by definition is the starting point. Any theism or gnosticism not based on evidence imemdiately goes against logic. Any faith or belief is beyond logic.
 
Not unsurprisingly, the key question has been asked several times, but has yet to be answered:

If you can't get something from nothing, then how did god come to be?
If god is an exception, why not the universe?
 
Iamme said:
Per the end of lengthy post #1....where can i read any consensus where ``infinite regression`` is both illogical and `old hat`?
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I think it is more a new idea which might gain popularity as a thing of logical conclusion in relation to things otherwise unknown for sure and seemingly unknowable for sure.

It is definitely illogical..."turtles all the way down", smoke and mirrors...
 
joobz said:
Not unsurprisingly, the key question has been asked several times, but has yet to be answered:

If you can't get something from nothing, then how did god come to be?
If god is an exception, why not the universe?
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Yeah. What did God come from?
 
John Jones said:
Yours is the a priori claim.
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The reason why "Infinite Regress" has been deemed illogical is, because it does not allow for a start point, in other terms according to Infinite Regress nothing would ever be initiated.

Just watch the video which can be found in the OP if you still do not understand. Or watch this shorter video.

Unless you can explain the theory in more logical manner?
 
mikeb768 said:
We don't know where God came from? Although we do know the attributes of God which he has chosen to reveal to us.

Say, "He is God, [who is] One,
God, the Eternal Refuge.
He neither begets nor is born,
Nor is there to Him any equivalent."
[Quran 112:1-4]
Click to expand...

That's right. We don't know.

Why do you think the person who wrote those words knew any better?

It looks more like a Political Manifesto saying "This is what we believe, you're either with us, or against us". It is a statement of a belief, not a statement of fact.

It is useless as far as understanding Nature goes. It just blocks further research. It is anti-intellectual and an example of ugly tribalism that has no place in the world of the 21st Century.

These ancient belief systems have served their purpose, it is time to put away these childish things and face the Universe like adult human beings, not cowering children.

Time to grow up Islam. Stamping your feet won't change anything. The world has moved on since Muhammad's day, time to catch up.
 
Aepervius said:
Logic says you should use only explanation based on evidence and axiom to draw conclusion. "Agnostic-Atheism" by definition is the starting point. Any theism or gnosticism not based on evidence imemdiately goes against logic. Any faith or belief is beyond logic.
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Your last post suggests that you believe there is no such thing as afterlife based on what is observed physically. However, the concept of afterlife itself is separate from the experience of physical existence, and cannot effectively be measured by physical application, thus the measurements end at the physical.

Therefore it is not logical to believe either way. It is certainly not logical to claim there is no afterlife because science has found no way to verify this as true.

That is why I cannot say for certain one way or another, and for me this is the best place to be. It is not logical to believe there is or isn't. Atheists who chose to believe are doing so in relation to the expression of faith.

Atheists who do not, are being logical.
 
mikeb768 said:
The reason why "Infinite Regress" has been deemed illogical is, because it does not allow for a start point, in other terms according to Infinite Regress nothing would ever be initiated.

Just watch the video which can be found in the OP if you still do not understand. Or watch this shorter video.

Unless you can explain the theory in more logical manner?
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Are you assuming that infinite regress is an intrinsic feature of atheism?
 
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