How To Use Bitcoin – The Most Important Creation In The History Of Man

[AdMan]

on this very thread. 6/9/2011. Michael Suede thinks he can explain something to CentralScrew.

Enjoy!

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7267700&postcount=84

Quote:
It's the Bitcoin. A year ago one was worth half a penny. Thursday morning it hit $10.50.

The Central Screwtinizer

So if a tard came up to me and offered to sell me 10 bitcoins for $100, not only would I not do it, I think I'd punch him in the head, just for being stupid.

Speaking of predictions...

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=247236

 

[ideogram]

Come to think of it, I don't know what you think of bitcoin yourself - except that you don't trust it (fair enough).

I did post this:

So a few years ago someone bought two pizzas with 10,000 BTC. I bet he feels pretty foolish today.

Logically, if you believe that BTC is going up, you shouldn't buy anything with it, isn't that true?

Is this wrong?

 

[psionl0]

I did post this:


Is this wrong?

It is correct but not necessarily as profound as it might first appear. Whenever you spend your money on anything other than bitcoin, you miss out on the potential profits to be had by owning bitcoins.

It would appear that a lot of bitcoin holders are hanging onto their bitcoins until such a time as its price doesn't rise so spectacularly. There is nothing wrong with this. There are no "ortas" about bitcoin, the market will determine how it gets used.

 

[Belz...]

http://preev.com/

Magic 1,111$.

 

[kevsta]

http://preev.com/

Magic 1,111$.

there seems to be radically different price quotes from different places, anyone know whats that's about? on my charts/exchange (BTC-E) we're at 1030 approx $60 off the previous highs. and WRS wondering where the money's coming from? China mainly by the look of it, this is one day (24hrs) figures.

edit, BTC-E dont look so hot, dont think I'll be going live on there. http://www.coindesk.com/btc-e-exchange-banking-issues/

 

[mhaze]

I did post this:

<issue of pizza for 10,000 bitcoins.>

Is this wrong?

I am going to say no, it was not wrong. They wanted to prove you could buy a pizza with bitcoins and did so at the market price at the time. Part of the result of the proof was an ability to assert utility. Obviously that affects bitcoin value.

What isn't known is whether right after they spent those 10,000 bitcoins, whether they, sitting around munching on a pizza, logged on and bought another 10,000....thus having an equal count before and after.

That is what I have done. To be honest about it I'm not even sure why I did it....

there seems to be radically different price quotes from different places, anyone know whats that's about?

that's true. MtGox is usually the highest priced, but is also capable of doing larger deals

 

[kevsta]

What isn't known is whether right after they spent those 10,000 bitcoins, whether they, sitting around munching on a pizza, logged on and bought another 10,000....thus having an equal count before and after.

That is what I have done. To be honest about it I'm not even sure why I did it....

do you have a lot then?

 

[jhunter1163]

MtGox is usually the highest priced, but is also capable of doing larger deals

Is any exchange capable of cashing out 10,000 BTC at current prices? I would say "no", given that Mt. Gox barely was able to cash out $1 million before.

 

[mhaze]

do you have a lot then?

LOL I wish!

I refer to the pizza that I bought something like May or June 2013, which sent Remirol into a spinning corkscrew which he has never actually admitted his error on, that 'you couldn't buy pizza with bitcoins'.

Seems like they were 100 each or so at that time and the pizza was like 0.2 or so.

I haven't followed all the craziness but I think he's doubled down on that and now claims I couldn't / didn't buy Hulu+ for bitcoin 10.96usd even after I posted the buy screen. So the fact that bitcoin was, whatever, something >1000, didn't stop me from buying Hulu+ for 10.96 because it was a great deal. In that case I don't think I bothered to go pick up another 0.01 bitcoin, too small an amount to bother.

Now for the accountants out there, you will realize this is all a matter of valuing inventory on LIFO or FIFO basis.

 

[wrs]

It is correct but not necessarily as profound as it might first appear. Whenever you spend your money on anything other than bitcoin, you miss out on the potential profits to be had by owning bitcoins.

It would appear that a lot of bitcoin holders are hanging onto their bitcoins until such a time as its price doesn't rise so spectacularly. There is nothing wrong with this. There are no "ortas" about bitcoin, the market will determine how it gets used.

There is nothing wrong in hanging on to them if they aren't a primary currency, otherwise there is a lot wrong with it. That is what produces deflation.

I think the real problem with money and why people hoard it is because of the supposed scarcity of it. Everyone seems to think if you print a lot of money it will devalue it. To a degree that is true but why to people accept money in the first place? They believe it will motivate someone else to give them something that person has.

In life we have been conditioned to believe that no one will do anything for us or give us anything if we don't pay something (money) for it.

Nothing is further from true. Each and every one of us was brought into this world by another person. The mother who carried us around for nine months paid a significant physical price for us to be born. Then for 18-25 years continued to feed, clothe and nurture us until we were able to operate on our own. That is all done gratis. A child can never repay a parent for what they gave them. All they can do is become a parent in return if there is any way to repay that effort.

The notion that only money can bring people the things they need is a false one but it's one that people are stuck on, now more than ever. Bitcoin isn't money because the govt doesn't say it is and unless the govt says bitcoin is money, it won't be. In the meantime, it seems to have become a speculative darling. I don't understand it at all but since the money chasing it doesn't really exist either, it's not all that surprising. Money doesn't buy you anything unless you spend it.

 

[mhaze]

Is any exchange capable of cashing out 10,000 BTC at current prices? I would say "no", given that Mt. Gox barely was able to cash out $1 million before.

There are limits on what size sell orders MtG and others will take. I don't recall what their limit is. Coinbase is 50 per 24 hour period. Mt Gox is way higher than that.

MtG does ... let's say 50k a day at 1k each, that's 50m a day in volume. Dumping 10,000 into an exchange that did 50,000 per day would obviously spike the price.

 

[mhaze]

.....Bitcoin isn't money because the govt doesn't say it is and unless the govt says bitcoin is money, it won't be. In the meantime, it seems to have become a speculative darling. I don't understand it at all but since the money chasing it doesn't really exist either, it's not all that surprising. Money doesn't buy you anything unless you spend it.

Sounds pretty reasonable. I'll just buy today's pizza with not-money (bitcoin) that I bought with imaginary-money(dollars). And my friend, watch out for the perils of Double-plus-ungood-think!

 

[psionl0]

Is any exchange capable of cashing out 10,000 BTC at current prices? I would say "no", given that Mt. Gox barely was able to cash out $1 million before.

Bitcoin exchanges don't actually use their own money to buy and sell bitcoins. They match "buy" orders with "sell" orders.

Exchanging is done by placing "buy" or "sell" orders, which the exchange system software then matches with each other. "Buy" orders (or "bids") are offers to buy bitcoins in exchange for another currency at a maximum price-per-bitcoin which is set by the offerer. "Sell" orders (or "asks") are offers to sell bitcoins at a minimum price-per-bitcoin. If the bid price of a buy order is higher than the ask price of a sell order, an exchange can be performed and either the bid order, the sell order or both can be removed from the "order book". Thus, at any given time, there is a price above which there are no more buy orders and a slightly higher price below which there are no more sell orders.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Currency_exchange

You can see it happening live at http://bitcointicker.co/

 

[remirol]

Is any exchange capable of cashing out 10,000 BTC at current prices? I would say "no", given that Mt. Gox barely was able to cash out $1 million before.

If you can't walk away from the table, you haven't won anything yet.

In the 96k BTC heist thread, one of the primary tracers remarks on how difficult it (apparently) is to turn anything more than around 4 BTC into cash. That number's probably a bit low, but even if we inflate that by a factor of 25, we aren't even close to making a dent in some of the BTC ownership flying around out there. What _that_ means is that a whole lot of people are only rich-on-paper right now, and are subject to the day-to-day price whims whether they like it or not... not a particularly enviable position to be in.

It would be interesting to see how much more value the market has than all the exchanges put together, but of course the exchanges aren't about to give that information away (for what should be obvious reasons).

 

[wrs]

There are limits on what size sell orders MtG and others will take. I don't recall what their limit is. Coinbase is 50 per 24 hour period. Mt Gox is way higher than that.

MtG does ... let's say 50k a day at 1k each, that's 50m a day in volume. Dumping 10,000 into an exchange that did 50,000 per day would obviously spike the price.

Go read the site, they have limits on how much cash you can get in a month, it's only about $50k per month and $10k per day up to the $50k limit. The value of bitcoin is extremely constrained. These are poorly capitalized markets based on what is in these releases. I have to assume that unless something changed, these remain as the limits.

While our daily limits for traditional currencies will remain unchanged with a maximum of $1,000 USD per 24 hrs, the Bitcoin daily withdrawal limit will change from 200BTC to 100BTC per 24 hrs for unverified customers. Verified and Trusted customers that already have their daily/monthly limit raised will not be affected with this change, however, Verified and Trusted customers that have not yet asked for their withdrawal limit to be raised will then be offered the following limits :

• Verified Status (Level 1) Maximum monthly withdrawal of 50,000 USD (or equivalent) capped to a maximum of 10,000 USD per 24 hrs and a 1,000 BTC withdrawal per 24 hrs without any monthly limit.
• Trusted Status (Level 2) Maximum monthly withdrawal of 500,000 USD (or equivalent) capped to a maximum of 100,000 USD per 24 hrs and a 10,000 BTC withdrawal per 24hrs without any monthly limit.

Of course we will re-evaluate these limits and adapt and revert them to their past value if necessary and if the value of Bitcoin against USD decreases.

The net of this is that bitcoin is basically a fantasy. There is no real money there. If the value of bitcoin decreases they can increase what they cash out. Later in July they managed to do a whole $1m in two weeks, what a joke.


https://www.mtgox.com/press_release_20130313.html


https://www.mtgox.com/press_release_20130704.html

 

[kevsta]

Bitcoin isn't money because the govt doesn't say it is and unless the govt says bitcoin is money, it won't be. .

I have a real fundamental issue with this, "the government" doesnt know its arse from it's elbow and lies through it's meth-head teeth.

 

[mhaze]

.....
The net of this is that bitcoin is basically a fantasy. ....https://www.mtgox.com/press_release_20130704.html

I abbreviate your post to the incorrect conclusion for convenience.

MtGox customers have accounts like brokerage accounts, a currency side and a btc side. The limits apply to one or the other, not to trading.

 

[mhaze]

Originally Posted by wrs
Bitcoin isn't money because the govt doesn't say it is and unless the govt says bitcoin is money, it won't be. .

I have a real fundamental issue with this, "the government" doesnt know its arse from it's elbow and lies through it's meth-head teeth.

Throughout history governments have ATTEMPTED to define and control what money was. They have succeeded when they provided good money, and when they provided bad money, the governments have failed. People came to be using substitute currencies whenever it suited them, but notably when a foreign currency was BETTER.

And this is an observable phenomenon. Bitcoin is being used. It is being used as money. It is not the coin minted by the King. It's use is expanding. It is a threat to the nation-states.

Cries of 'sacrilege' and 'blasphemy' and 'off with their heads' doesn't change anything.

 

[mhaze]

If you can't walk away from the table, you haven't won anything yet......interesting to see how much more value the market has than all the exchanges put together, but of course the exchanges aren't about to give that information away (for what should be obvious reasons).

Did you read and understand #2783?

There is too much wrong here. Wronger than the wrongest wrong of the wrongs, even though we walk the valley of wrong. Many a Wrong has fallen in this valley, such that it cannot be cleared out until the glaciers of the coming Ice Age.

Stop it please. And go get your Hulu+ for 8% of list.

ROFL....

 

[jhunter1163]

Bitcoin exchanges don't actually use their own money to buy and sell bitcoins. They match "buy" orders with "sell" orders.
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So the implication is that these big Bitcoin holders couldn't sell if they wanted to, because no buyer is stupid enough to put $10 million into an about-to-pop bubble. Got it.