Continuation Part Six: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Grinder]

I would have to locate his testimony again . I'm pretty sure he said they were gone when he left .

Here is the link

DEFENSE - AVV . BONGIORNO
QUESTION - You said that at 21.30, as the initial time she
did refer to 2130.
ANSWER - Yes, but already I had been there in the afternoon.
QUESTION - You told me that in the afternoon it was already past
ovviai staying there because she often was already in the past
afternoon.
ANSWER - Yes.
QUESTION - In the afternoon he saw Sollecito and Knox ?
ANSWER - No.
QUESTION - At 21.30 he sees them for the first time ?
ANSWER - At 21.30 when I saw the front of the Police
the house?
QUESTION - What do you see at 21:30 that night we
described ?
ANSWER - The night before I had seen the Police , the
white men so ...
QUESTION - In the morning sees the men in black , the night before
men in white are we talking about it?
ANSWER - Yes.
QUESTION - What do you see at 21:30 ? ANSWER - I confirm it again, I saw two boys , like two boyfriends who were down in the bottom of the basketball court. QUESTION - At 21.30 ? ANSWER - At nine and a half , more or less , nine and a half - of ten. APPLICATION - These guys were from 21.30 then the day before the murder , until midnight ...ANSWER - Before midnight.
QUESTION - Up to always be there before midnight .
ANSWER - Yes, it argued, were talking among themselves. not
it was the first time I had such a thing .
QUESTION - Yes, but we want to rebuild. How do you know it was
arrived precisely at nine and a half?
ANSWER - Because apart from that there is a clock on the LTZ ,
R.G. 8/ 08 - 28/03/2009 c / AMANDA KNOX + 1
10
plus I've got myself a watch.
QUESTION - 21:30 So there together on park bench
Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito.
ANSWER - No, they were not ... I was on the bench, their
were on the low wall of the basketball court .
QUESTION - two of them were always there continuously ?
ANSWER - Yes, until before midnight, I go away ,
I think so because they were there.
QUESTION - So it's not that they are gone and returned , are
always been there ?
ANSWER - No , I am neither left nor returned , there were
sitting around talking to each other.

ETA - In German we say half of ten to say 9:30 is that what he was saying?

nine and a half , more or less , nine and a half - of ten

 

[acbytesla]

I've always found it interesting that the PGP says Curatolo is totally truthful, yet only selectively believe him.

Why not Briars?

 

[Briars]

I would prefer to read the Italian

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

Well I think she arrived minutes later and I agree with Briars that the man seen by what's her name around 10:20 was Rudy.

I think it took him more time to clean up and make a plan.

I don't think so. She's a good witness, not some lowlife dragged out of the gutter by a reporter. She was with her boyfriend, who also saw this person, she went to the cops as soon as she heard about the murder, and she says whoever she saw was not Guede. But she did see the broken down car, which means her 10:30 time frame is roughly correct. That was 17 minutes after Meredith's phone picked up a text message from the tower that serves Guede's apt.

Also, the testimony doesn't fit with how a killer would have behaved in that situation. Guede was not being pursued. He would not have been running in a panic, or nearly colliding with someone so they would be sure to remember. He would walk at a normal pace, avoid calling attention to himself, and keep his head down to make it hard for anyone to get a good look at him.

Check out security camera clips of people leaving a murder scene if you doubt me.

Formica's encounter sounds like someone who had forgotten his wallet in a restaurant.

 

[Grinder]

I would prefer to read the Italian

DOMANDA – Quindi lei conferma precisamente questi particolari,
che la mattina dopo aver visto i due ragazzi, la mattina
immediatamente dopo lei sta nella piazza, c’è ad un
certo punto un via vai di Polizia, vengono i Carabinieri
e poi lei si affaccia, verso l’una e mezza – due, e vede
tutta la Polizia, i Carabinieri, gente con la tuta
bianca etc..
RISPOSTA – Sì.
DOMANDA – Non ho altre domande.
PARTE CIVILE – AVV. MARESCA – Nessuna domanda.
R.G. 8/08 - 28/03/2009 c/ KNOX AMANDA + 1
9
DIFESA – AVV. BONGIORNO
DOMANDA – Lei diceva che alle 21.30, come orario iniziale lei
ha fatto riferiti alle 21.30.
RISPOSTA – Sì, ma già c’ero stato nel pomeriggio.
DOMANDA – Lei mi diceva che nel pomeriggio già era passato
perché ovviai stando lei spesso lì era già passato nel
pomeriggio.
RISPOSTA – Sì.
DOMANDA – Nel pomeriggio aveva visto Sollecito e la Knox?
RISPOSTA – No.
DOMANDA – Alle 21.30 li vede per la prima volta?
RISPOSTA – Alle 21.30 quando ho visto i Carabinieri davanti
alla casa?
DOMANDA – Lei che cosa vede alle 21.30 di quella sera che ci
ha descritto?
RISPOSTA – La sera prima che avevo visto i Carabinieri, gli
uomini in bianco così...
DOMANDA – Di mattina vede gli uomini in bianco, la sera prima
degli uomini in bianco stiamo parlando no?
RISPOSTA – Sì.
DOMANDA – Che cosa vede alle 21.30?
RISPOSTA – Confermo un’altra volta, avevo visto due ragazzi,
sembravano due fidanzati che stavano giù in fondo al
campo da basket.
DOMANDA – Alle 21.30?
RISPOSTA – Alle nove e mezza più o meno, nove e mezza – dieci.
DOMANDA – Questi ragazzi sono rimasti quindi dalle 21.30 del
giorno prima del delitto, fino a mezzanotte...
RISPOSTA – Prima di mezzanotte.
DOMANDA – Fino a prima di mezzanotte sempre lì.
RISPOSTA – Sì, discutevano, stavano a parlare tra di loro. Non
era la prima volta che mi capitava una cosa del genere.
DOMANDA – Sì, ma ci interessa ricostruire. Lei come sa che era
arrivato appunto alle nove e mezza?
RISPOSTA – Perché a parte che c’è sta un orologio della ZTL,
R.G. 8/08 - 28/03/2009 c/ KNOX AMANDA + 1
10
in più ce l’ho anch’io un orologio.
DOMANDA – Quindi alle 21.30 c’erano insieme sulla panchina
Amanda Knox e Raffaele Sollecito.
RISPOSTA – No, non stavano... io stavo sulla panchina, loro
stavano sul muricciolo del campo da basket.
DOMANDA – Loro due sono stati sempre lì ininterrottamente?
RISPOSTA – Sì, fino a prima di mezzanotte, che io andassi via,
penso di sì perché stavano là.
DOMANDA – Quindi non è che se ne sono andati e tornati, sono
sempre stati là?
RISPOSTA – No, non sono né andati né tornati, stavano là
seduti a parlare tra di loro.
DOMANDA – E il giorno dopo è il giorno in cui ci sono questi
con le tute bianche e c’è il delitto.
RISPOSTA – Sì.
DOMANDA – Quindi la sera prima del delitto lei ha visto
ininterrottamente Raffaele e Amanda lì?
RISPOSTA – Sì, sì.
DOMANDA – Non ho altre domande.
DIFESA - AVV. DALLA VEDOVA – Nessuna domanda.
PUBBLICO MINISTERO – DOTT. MIGNINI
DOMANDA – Dunque lei sta seduto nella panchina.
RISPOSTA – Sì.
DOMANDA – E siamo verso le 21.30 ha detto?
RISPOSTA – Sì, nove e mezza – dieci.
DOMANDA – 21.30 – 22.00.
DOMANDA – Quando lei si trova lì e... lei guarda l’orario,
21.30 – 22.00?
RISPOSTA – Non subito, mi accendo la sigaretta poi mi metto a
vedere un po’ le persone che ci stanno in giro.
DOMANDA – Ma questi ragazzi, appena lei era lì li ha visti
subito?
RISPOSTA – No, non c’ho guardato subito giù al campo da

 

[Poppy1016]

Briars, I wonder if you would describe for us what you think would be the proper way to collect,handle,and store the bra clasp at the murder scene. Thanks in advance.

 

[Poppy1016]

Next Briars, could you describe to us what you think would be the proper way to search for a murder weapon. Then describe what you think would be the proper way to handle a knife you have collected. Finally, How would you test a piece of evidence when your machine kept reading too low.

 

[Briars]

The case of the appearing disappearing suspects. How in the hell do you sneak the murder in when they were spending all that time in the Piazza?

Notice that Rudy is not seen. So, you believe Curatolo and that Amanda and Raffaele along with Rudy killed Meredith? That would mean that Amanda and Raffaele walked from Raffaele's apartment and hung out in piazza during November while all the party revelers in Halloween costume waited for the buses to the disco and then together headed to the apartment where Rudy was having a date with Meredith and the three of them killed Meredith. Then Rudy went his separate way and Amanda and Raffaele decided to hang out in the Piazza for another hour.

Interesting.

Pay attention they were in the piazza seen by Curatolo after 9:30 They left , back stairs unseen by toto and met Guede. A trip to the cottage a murder and are seen by toto again before 11 in the piazza. This time he notices them a couple times speaking about something and checking over the rail. During the post murder he observes them on and off until after 11:30 . Curatolo does not watch them non stop he reads he isn't the piazza guard He was unsure if he he arrived at 9:30 or 10 so he is not exact.

 

[Grinder]

Pay attention they were in the piazza seen by Curatolo after 9:30 They left , back stairs unseen by toto and met Guede. A trip to the cottage a murder and are seen by toto again before 11 in the piazza. This time he notices them a couple times speaking about something and checking over the rail. During the post murder he observes them on and off until after 11:30 . Curatolo does not watch them non stop he reads he isn't the piazza guard He was unsure if he he arrived at 9:30 or 10 so he is not exact.

Actually he said he noted the time and I believe he said it was 9:27 in the appeal testimony. The testimony I provided for you indicates they were there until just before midnight.

Massei sums up that he saw them several times. He says they were there the whole time.

Does anybody have the appeal testimony?

 

[Briars]

Briars, I wonder if you would describe for us what you think would be the proper way to collect,handle,and store the bra clasp at the murder scene. Thanks in advance.

Thanks in advance you are not the machine! Obviously the clasp should have been collected on the first day but was missed. It was stored in plastic and rusted with the moisture too bad. However it remained under the mat in the sealed room for the 47 days. The kicking around dust particle contamination bs does not work. It was clear good sized sample of RS second only to the clear sample of the victim. His sample is the one to be explained not the partial ones that could have been transferred from her hand. The SC said the path of contamination needs to be shown.

 

[Bill Williams]

Pay attention they were in the piazza seen by Curatolo after 9:30 They left , back stairs unseen by toto and met Guede. A trip to the cottage a murder and are seen by toto again before 11 in the piazza. This time he notices them a couple times speaking about something and checking over the rail. During the post murder he observes them on and off until after 11:30 . Curatolo does not watch them non stop he reads he isn't the piazza guard He was unsure if he he arrived at 9:30 or 10 so he is not exact.

I don't know why you keep on with this nonsense. He also is so inexact he doesn't remember if it was Oct 31 or not....

 

[Briars]

Next Briars, could you describe to us what you think would be the proper way to search for a murder weapon. Then describe what you think would be the proper way to handle a knife you have collected. Finally, How would you test a piece of evidence when your machine kept reading too low.

Pass sounds like busy work I'm bored now.

 

[Briars]

I don't know why you keep on with this nonsense. He also is so inexact he doesn't remember if it was Oct 31 or not....

You know I am not clear on that because I heard there were some discos and open but not as many. He remembered seeing the ambulance and police the next day and he knew it didn't rain the night he saw the defendants.

 

[Poppy1016]

Would you pick up the clasp and pass it around, or collect it with sterile tweezers and store it in a paper bag?

 

[Briars]

I don't know why you keep on with this nonsense. He also is so inexact he doesn't remember if it was Oct 31 or not....

Actually he said he noted the time and I believe he said it was 9:27 in the appeal testimony. The testimony I provided for you indicates they were there until just before midnight.

Massei sums up that he saw them several times. He says they were there the whole time.

Does anybody have the appeal testimony?

We are reading different accounts because I read he arrived sometime between 9:30 or 10

 

[Poppy1016]

Briars did you watch the evidence collection videos? Do you think the evidence was collected in the proper way?

 

[Briars]

Briars did you watch the evidence collection videos? Do you think the evidence was collected in the proper way?

Yawn I'm headed over to PMF I've got a bit of a crush on Machiavelli he is such a one man warrior!

 

[Poppy1016]

Thanks in advance you are not the machine! Obviously the clasp should have been collected on the first day but was missed. It was stored in plastic and rusted with the moisture too bad. However it remained under the mat in the sealed room for the 47 days. The kicking around dust particle contamination bs does not work. It was clear good sized sample of RS second only to the clear sample of the victim. His sample is the one to be explained not the partial ones that could have been transferred from her hand. The SC said the path of contamination needs to be shown.

Are you aware that the clasp moved across the room durin the 47 days from when it was first seen? How did this occur in a "sealed" room?

 

[Grinder]

You know I am not clear on that because I heard there were some discos and open but not as many. He remembered seeing the ambulance and police the next day and he knew it didn't rain the night he saw the defendants.

The in town discos were open but those didn't use buses.

Saying it was the night before the police were there eight months after the fact isn't exactly convincing. Of course he said it was the night before the police were there. Would you expect him to say it was two nights before the murder? If I were to tell the police I saw OJ the night his ex was killed and I know it was that night because the next day it was a crime scene, would that be credible? I nailed the night so I must be telling the truth.

I don't remember his rain testimony. I think that was Koko.

 

[Grinder]

We are reading different accounts because I read he arrived sometime between 9:30 or 10

I gave you the Italian and it seems he says he arrived at 9:30 or half 10.