Is Not Knowing the Capital of Canada a Problem?

[Travis]

It is that bad. Would you be happy if someone thought the capital of the USA was Florida?

Well that would be bad because Florida is a state, and not a city (there maybe a few towns named Florida), and wasn't even a state when the country formed.

 

[MikeG]

In the context of the post from which this was taken, everything.

Utterly lost on me, I'm afraid. But if it means something to you......

 

[Travis]

Are you sure? I have it the other way around from a number of sources.....but that isn't really the point. The real point is that most people don't seem to have even heard of Soweto, let alone places like Soshanguve or Khayelitsha, and assume that the major cities are all the colonial-era places.

Really? Most people I know have heard of Soweto. Kind of hard to ignore it when learning about Apartheid.

 

[Foolmewunz]

Are you sure? I have it the other way around from a number of sources.....but that isn't really the point. The real point is that most people don't seem to have even heard of Soweto, let alone places like Soshanguve or Khayelitsha, and assume that the major cities are all the colonial-era places.

I'm not sure why you linked to your "number of sources" that shows a table confirming what I said. If you breakout the Soweto population from Johannesburg proper, it's deemed (by the gov't of the RSA) to be the largest city in South Africa.

If you recombine them and the other outlying districts, then "greater Johannesburg" is the largest.

 

[joesixpack]

Utterly lost on me, I'm afraid. But if it means something to you......

Let me spell it out for you because it should mean something to you, and it's frankly a hell of a lot more important to understand than it is to know the capital of Canada;

Americans are culturally isolated. It is not because Americans choose to be, it is a product of the way in which culture and knowledge of the outside world are disseminated within America.

 

[MikeG]

I'm not sure why you linked to your "number of sources" that shows a table confirming what I said. If you breakout the Soweto population from Johannesburg proper, it's deemed (by the gov't of the RSA) to be the largest city in South Africa.

If you recombine them and the other outlying districts, then "greater Johannesburg" is the largest.

The table has Joburg at the top (not including Soweto), and Soweto in 2nd place. How is that supporting the idea that Soweto is the biggest? Anyway, we're both right, and we're both wrong. There are sprawls around all of South Africa's cities, and artificially dividing them up will just lead to endless trivia questions. For instance, in some tables the Cape Flats sprawl around Cape Town, including Khayelitsha, is shown separately from CT, and in some it is included. We digress.....

 

[MaxMurx]

What is "Canada"?

(Attention: joke!)

 

[lobosrul]

Let me spell it out for you because it should mean something to you, and it's frankly a hell of a lot more important to understand than it is to know the capital of Canada;

Americans are culturally isolated. It is not because Americans choose to be, it is a product of the way in which culture and knowledge of the outside world are disseminated within America.

What? Maybe that was true in past decades, but there is no excuse not to be reasonably aware of the outside world in 2013. Information is easy and free to obtain on this world wide web thing we have now.

 

[MikeG]

......Americans are culturally isolated. It is not because Americans choose to be, it is a product of the way in which culture and knowledge of the outside world are disseminated within America.

OK, thanks.

I contend that the part about it not being your choice is wrong, because you have all the facilities to not be culturally isolated if you should so choose, both collectively and individually.

 

[joesixpack]

What? Maybe that was true in past decades, but there is no excuse not to be reasonably aware of the outside world in 2013. Information is easy and free to obtain on this world wide web thing we have now.

For the curious, there have always been sources of culture outside of the mainstream. The trouble is that most people aren't curious. I have to admit that I'm a bit judgmental about that, but I think it's part of human nature so I give it a pass. I also think that, because a large (and growing) fraction of Americas are living hand-to-mouth at the moment, they can't work their way very far up the "Hierarchy of Needs".

 

[joesixpack]

OK, thanks.

I contend that the part about it not being your choice is wrong, because you have all the facilities to not be culturally isolated if you should so choose, both collectively and individually.

Not so much. See my reply to lobosrul. America ranks pretty low on development when compared to other industrialized nations. We don't even have a health care system that serves the entire population (ACA is actually a cruel joke, it turns out), our education system is generally below standards, and poverty is quite prevalent. Yeah, I'd love for people to spend time learning about the world on the internet or in libraries and museums, but their aspirations don't seem so high. I think there are a lot of social forces which make that the case.

ETA; and thank you for taking the time to understand my point. I do appreciate being understood even if you don't agree.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Let me spell it out for you because it should mean something to you, and it's frankly a hell of a lot more important to understand than it is to know the capital of Canada;

Americans are culturally isolated. It is not because Americans choose to be, it is a product of the way in which culture and knowledge of the outside world are disseminated within America.

Even if we accept that as being true, which I do not, you still present that as being a good thing, or at the very least not a bad one.

One of the reasons I dislike ITV news here is that they seem, or at least seemed back when I didn't switch channels immediately, to only focus on international news if it was either A. A national disaster too big to ignore or B. Had some British people affected by it. This kind of cultural imperialism, wherther by choice or by virtue of the system is not a good thing.

In actual fact even if we accept your premise that just shows how horrifically broken the US system is, in that only news which is considered to directly impact on the USA or it's people is worthy of reporting. It's an isolationist policy that serves only to make your country even more shamefully ignorant.

What if something like 9/11 were not mentioned in Norway because no Norwegians were killed?

 

[Mudcat]

That's called a leading question.

Maybe, maybe not. We'll see.

This is clearly a cultural issue. I presume you are from the US. Over here, whilst there are many people with no idea of the world around them, most would be embarrassed to not know really basic stuff. You seem proud of not knowing it.

It's not basic information, and I'm not proud to not know it. I'm merely not ashamed to not know it.

That feeds into the European view of the stereotypical US citizen: ultra-insular and uninformed of the wider world. I try hard to avoid stereotypes, but boy, you're making it harder and harder.

You're breaking my heart.

Do kids in the USA do geography at school?

Yes we do and yes I have. I still remember them drilling the names of all fifty states and their capitals into our heads, as well as the capitals of a number of other nations including, but not limited to, Canada. I, like a lot of other people, did not retain that information. But I seem to recall passing the geography class with flying colors.

And some actually learn something and remember it.

So rote memorization and regurgitation of trivial facts equals learning in your mind? Consider me skeptical.

It's called the dumbing down of America. I are not very edumacated and I'm proud of it. It's really a sad trend.

<SNIP>

Edited by LashL: 

Edited for civility.

Do you watch the news?

Not if I can avoid it, I also avoid watching television as much as possible.

Is American news so insular that you don't even get reports about major foreign events like the recent hostage taking inside a mall in Nairobi (capital of Kenya)? It was all over our news, and was the lead story of the day on at least one of the days it occurred. Having googled the eent I found numerous references to it in American news media. Did you see it reported? Did they mention that it was happening in Kenya? Was it ever a lead story on a televised news show?

It's been a while since I've watched the news, but I can't imagine a reporter covering something like a hostage situation and stoping to say something like "Oh, by the way. Did you know the capital of Kenya is Nairobi?"

Yeah, so? How is that important to the story you're covering and what am I going to do with that information?

Can you speak a foreign language, even just a little conversationally?

Yes, a little Spanish. I'm learning more from a Mexican coworker.

Is that not taught as mandatory in American schools?

Yes, Spanish and French when I was still in school.

 

[joesixpack]

Even if we accept that as being true, which I do not, you still present that as being a good thing, or at the very least not a bad one.

Let me be absolutely clear, I certainly don't present it as a "good" thing, and to the best of my knowledge, no one else has either.

Furthermore, it is a false equivalency to suggest the "good" and "not bad" are the same. There is quite a bit of sunlight between the two. I present it as "Not a bad thing" because I don't think that, taken by itself, ignorance of some national capitals is indicative of an unhealthy level of ignorance. I don't suggest that ignorance is a "good" thing, because it's certainly not.

..This kind of cultural imperialism, wherther by choice or by virtue of the system is not a good thing.

In actual fact even if we accept your premise that just shows how horrifically broken the US system is, in that only news which is considered to directly impact on the USA or it's people is worthy of reporting. It's an isolationist policy that serves only to make your country even more shamefully ignorant.

What if something like 9/11 were not mentioned in Norway because no Norwegians were killed?

I think you're confusing my explanation of "what is" with an endorsement of "what should be".

Do I think many Americans are woefully ignorant of what goes on in the world? Yes. Do I think knowing the capital of Canada is symptomatic of that ignorance? Certainly not. It is a single data point, and not even a significant one.

The question posed by the OP was "Is not knowing the capital of Canada a problem?". I have yet to see a compelling answer in the affirmative that is not predicated on the (unsupported) belief that ignorance of the Canadian capital is indicative of a profound level of ignorance.

 

[fuelair]

Didn't know Africa had a capital...

Sure it does: A

Canada's is C of course.


Earlier in the history of things Harvard grads and some profs don't/didn't know was that the Earth's changing seasons were caused (and a damn good thing!!) by the tilt of it's axis and the pace it was in it's orbit around the sun. Most thought it was how close it was to the Sun at the time. Much hilarity ensued in science teacher watchers of the film about that!!!

 

[Polaris]

Really? Most people I know have heard of Soweto. Kind of hard to ignore it when learning about Apartheid.

There's the problem.

 

[joesixpack]

Earlier in the history of things Harvard grads and some profs don't/didn't know was that the Earth's changing seasons were caused (and a damn good thing!!) by the tilt of it's axis and the pace it was in it's orbit around the sun. Most thought it was how close it was to the Sun at the time. Much hilarity ensued in science teacher watchers of the film about that!!!

Yes, I see this a lot. I consider this of greater import than naming a national capital. And though I would consider this a more significant indicator of general ignorance, it's still a single data point.

 

[fuelair]

Sure it does: A

Canada's is C of course.


Earlier in the history of things Harvard grads and some profs don't/didn't know was that the Earth's changing seasons were caused (and a damn good thing!!) by the tilt of it's axis and the pace it was in it's orbit around the sun. Most thought it was how close it was to the Sun at the time. Much hilarity ensued in science teacher watchers of the film about that!!!

A segment on video appears here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVzTIMVK4PI The usual you tube stuff applies - though this should be safe for work most everywhere.

 

[Craig4]

I would like to point out (and I haven't read the whole thread so maybe someone brought this up) how incredibly stupid very smart people can be when in front of a television camera or being interviewed. It's one of those things that can shut off your brain if you aren't expecting it.

 

[joesixpack]

I would like to point out (and I haven't read the whole thread so maybe someone brought this up) how incredibly stupid very smart people can be when in front of a television camera or being interviewed. It's one of those things that can shut off your brain if you aren't expecting it.

Yeah, I have to agree with that, and add that being asked a question "out of the blue" is also likely to get wrong answers from people who know better. If you preface your survey with a couple of warm up questions, or by telling people that in five minutes they're going to be asked some basic geography questions, I'd bet the results would probably show a less ignorant public. Of course, if the purpose of these stories it to demonstrate that people are ignorant, that's not going to give you the results you want.