Vaccine/autism CT discussion

[Diogenes]

Take a chemistry course.

I took enough to have that be one of my majors in my undergraduate degree...I think I've taken enough since I'm not a chemist.

 

[Reality Check]

I'll stick to my belief that since the human body is a metabolism running on chemicals reacting to each other for specific purposes, to date no one can know how or when injected materials/adjuvants are going to disrupt the chemical reactions and the consequences of those disruptions.

Noticed this really ignorant comment, Clayton Moore .

The idea that no one knows what happens when substances are injected into human beings is absurd. A large part of medicine in the last 2 centuries has been the study of exactly what happens when substances are injected into human beings! The consequences are known, e.g.

• inject people with a vaccine for measles and millions of lives are saved.
• inject people with vaccines and compare what happens to people who are not vaccinated and you find
  • vaccinated people tend not to get the diseases that they are vaccinated against !
  • vaccinated people have similar rates of autism as not vaccinated people.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Clayton Moore:

When you get all pear-shaped about "squalene", are you referring to the C₃₀H₅₀ triterpene hydrocarbon: "2,6,10,15,19,23-Hexamethyltetracosa-2,6,10,14,18,22-hexaene", that is found in cod-liver oil, shark-liver oil, rice bran, wheat, amaranth, and olives; poultry, oily fish, and organ meats?

The stuff that your own system produces to metabolize sterols (including vitamin D)?

The stuff that your own skin secretes so much of (150-500mg/day) that the detection of squalene in oil-based test compounds is considered per se evidence of improperly handled glassware? (To forestall silliness, you might want to read up on the fact that the human body excretes squalene in feces even when maintained on a squalene-free diet.)

'Cos, yeah, we do know how it is metabolized. We also know that it is metabolized by even the archaebacteria, indicating that it has been part of the sterol metabolic pathway since early in the history of life-on-this-planet.

...It's a medium-chain hydrocarbon.

Praps you might ought to consider doing a bit of reading.
http://www.jlr.org/content/17/1/38.full.pdf

Good work. The body ingests. The body absorbs the squalene.

Fat fingering squalene through the skin does not give squalene access to the digestive process.
GSM.

http://vran.org/about-vaccines/vacc...d-adjuvants/a-glimpse-into-vaccine-adjuvants/

Scientists theorize that oil based adjuvants have the ability to “hyperactivate” the immune system, and in doing so, create chaos by inducing such an extremely powerful response that the immune system literally goes haywire and starts attacking elements it would normally ignore. (6)

Another theory has to do with “specificity”. One of the great distinguishing characteristics of the immune system is something akin to a highly sensitive innate intelligence that has evolved over eons to be able to respond very precisely to what it deems to be a threat to the body. Because the body contains many types of oily molecules and lipids, it may be that when an oil is injected, the immune system responds to it not only specifically, but with heightened intensity because the oil adjuvant resembles so closely the natural oils found in the body. A “cross reaction” then happens, sending the immune system into chaos destroying any oils found anywhere in the body that resemble the adjuvant oil. Demyelinating diseases like multiple sclerosis are an example of this destructive autoimmune process. (6)

As I said before, vaccines are destabilizing evolution.

 

[abaddon]

Good work. The body ingests. The body absorbs the squalene.

Fat fingering squalene through the skin does not give squalene access to the digestive process.
GSM.

http://vran.org/about-vaccines/vacc...d-adjuvants/a-glimpse-into-vaccine-adjuvants/




As I said before, vaccines are destabilizing evolution.

How odd. Not too long ago you were shrilly claiming that vaccines went directly into the digestive system. Now you are shrilly claiming that they do not and can not. Which is it?

 

[Tomtomkent]

Strange the post Clayton quoted did mention that the body excretes sqaulene even without ingestion. It is almost as though he did not read the post with due care. Perhaps he will now describe the utoxic effects for us?

 

[Dcdrac]

clayton if you knew anything at all about evolution you would not be able to make such a daft statement that vaccines are destabalising evolution.

Evidence that MMR causes Autism - none from clayton yet
Evidence that vaccines cause asthma - none from clayton yet
Evidence that US children have a specific USA only from of autism - none from clayton yet
Evidence that vaccines are causing a destabilsation of evolution - none from clayton yet

 

[Dcdrac]

Evidence that MMR causes Autism - none from clayton yet
Evidence that vaccines cause asthma - none from clayton yet
Evidence that US children have a specific USA only from of autism - none from clayton yet
Evidence that vaccines are causing a destabilsation of evolution - none from clayton yet

 

[Clayton Moore]

Strange the post Clayton quoted did mention that the body excretes sqaulene even without ingestion. It is almost as though he did not read the post with due care. Perhaps he will now describe the utoxic effects for us?

The point is that a sledge hammer is pretty much perfectly safe until it's in the wrong place. A bullet is perfectly safe until it is fired from a gun and hits you making it in the wrong place.


I surmise you didn't read the following.

http://vran.org/about-vaccines/vacci...ine-adjuvants/

Quote:
Scientists theorize that oil based adjuvants have the ability to “hyperactivate” the immune system, and in doing so, create chaos by inducing such an extremely powerful response that the immune system literally goes haywire and starts attacking elements it would normally ignore. (6)

Another theory has to do with “specificity”. One of the great distinguishing characteristics of the immune system is something akin to a highly sensitive innate intelligence that has evolved over eons to be able to respond very precisely to what it deems to be a threat to the body. Because the body contains many types of oily molecules and lipids, it may be that when an oil is injected, the immune system responds to it not only specifically, but with heightened intensity because the oil adjuvant resembles so closely the natural oils found in the body. A “cross reaction” then happens, sending the immune system into chaos destroying any oils found anywhere in the body that resemble the adjuvant oil. Demyelinating diseases like multiple sclerosis are an example of this destructive autoimmune process. (6)

 

[Clayton Moore]

The concept of stimulating a hyperactive immune response by using oil-based adjuvants has clearly backfired since we now know that the stronger the antigenic response, the more damaging the adjuvant itself is to the normal functioning of the brain and nervous system. The precedent for mass medical experimentation via an ever increasing recommended vaccine schedule has been set. We can now predict the grim future of mankind: an epidemic of neurological disorders and autoimmune diseases never before imagined.

If you care about your loved ones you will be receptive to the truth and amiable to the messengers of the truth.

You need to review the body of work of the avaricious drug companies and their capricious reactions to valid questioning of their products.

You need to understand that most dire side effects are preceded by intermediate less visible damage. Kidney damage before renal failure.

You need to understand that a baby/toddler may not reach its at birth potential as an adult because of vaccines. Who would be the wiser if little Billy reached only 95% of his birth potential?

 

[Dcdrac]

FACT MMR does not cause autism, plenty of evidence to suport this HARD evidence.

FACT vaccines do not cause asthma again plenty of HARD evidence to suppport this.

FACT US children DO NOT have a US specific form of autism

FACT Anti vaxxer hysteria scares have caused deaths and needles preventible suffering.

 

[abaddon]

Oh yes you did.

Indeed. Were those not your claims, Clayton?

 

[Dcdrac]

http://www.virtualmedicalcentre.com/news/most-parents-believe-vaccines-are-safe-for-children/18440

New research from the University of Adelaide shows that 95% of parents believe vaccines are safe for their children despite the spread of misinformation about vaccine safety.

The study, conducted by researchers in the University's Robinson Institute and School of Population Health, sought to better understand parents' attitudes to vaccines and the perceived risks associated with them.

The study surveyed a random sample of 469 South Australian parents. While 95% were confident in vaccine safety in general, almost half expressed some concern for the prior testing of vaccines, and one in four was not aware that Australia has a system of vaccine safety monitoring.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Indeed. Were those not your claims, Clayton?

But not by ingestion and its absorption processes.

 

[Slowvehicle]

Good work. The body ingests. The body absorbs the squalene.

Fat fingering squalene through the skin does not give squalene access to the digestive process.
GSM.

1. "Fat fingering"? Please to provide a source for this...odd...term. You missed the bit about "squalene" being produced by, and secreted by, normal skin. Not-so-good-work.

2. Until you can demonstrate an understanding of the role "squalene" plays in the metabolism of sterols, you probably ought not to talk about what does, and does not, constitute "access to the digestive system". Missed the part about excreting "squalene" in the feces, even on a squalene-free diet, did you? Not-so-good-work.

3. Also missed the bit about the anthrax vaccine used to protect the military not containing squalene, didn't you? Not-so-good-work.

http://vran.org/about-vaccines/vacc...d-adjuvants/a-glimpse-into-vaccine-adjuvants/

As I said before, vaccines are destabilizing evolution.

You have said many things before, and I have yet to see any support for most of them. DO you actually advocate humans having more children than can be supported, and letting natural selection weed out the unfit? If not, then, vaccines or no, how is that not "destabilising evolution". Until you can demonstrate an understanding of what processes would have to be in place for humans to be subject to evolution by natural selection, you might consider being more careful saying. As the song goes, "Everbody talkin' 'bout science a'n't goin' there." Not-so-good-work.

Not to mention, you do not seem to understand that the "squalene" that was not used in the anthrax vaccines is not an "adjuvant". Until you understand what an adjuvant actually is, and what part a medium-chain hydrocarbon such as "squalene" might play in potentiating a vaccine, you should be more careful throwing around sciency stuff. Not-so-good-work.

 

[Dcdrac]

we are well on the way to understanding autism clayton and one thing we know for certain is vaccinnes do not cause autism and do not cause asthma.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Please direct us to a site that criticizes Boniva or Zoloft. Then we can go for a site that criticizes the use of squalene in vaccines.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squalene#Use_as_an_adjuvant_in_vaccines

Still no approval of research/news type site that criticizes drug/vaccine companies and their products.

 

[Diogenes]

You clicked the link before and it worked. You even posted about it.

Two different links, bright-eyes. You must have had fat-fingered your copy-and-paste.

You meant:
http://vran.org/about-vaccines/vacc...d-adjuvants/a-glimpse-into-vaccine-adjuvants/

The link you posted the 2nd time:
http://vran.org/about-vaccines/vacci...ine-adjuvants/

from:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=9638488#post9638488

It's a toss up which is the most viciously audacious prevarication, "3." or we can't figure out the cause of GWS or we can't figure out the cause of autism or we can't figure out the huge increase of asthma cases.

In no way is not knowing something proof of anything else. Well, maybe in religion or philosophy, but not in science.

 

[Clayton Moore]

The most outrageous part of this discussion is that not one poster other than myself, that I recall, has said 7 or 8 or more jabs is dangerous.

 

[000063]

Still no approval of research/news type site that criticizes drug/vaccine companies and their products.

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/arti...second-drug-company-confirms-chicago-subpoena
http://northdallasgazette.com/2013/11/03/houston-law-firm-launches-pharmaceutical-lawsuit-website/
http://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...cy-Binkow-Goldberg-LLP-Announces-Class-Action
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/76335e22-4d03-11e3-9f40-00144feabdc0.html
http://www.upi.com/Health_News/2013...be-heard-in-federal-court/UPI-38541383942395/
http://www.nydailynews.com/life-sty...ovaries-stop-producing-eggs-article-1.1510514

Yep, clearly the news isn't interested in reporting anything inimical to their pharma overlord.

The most outrageous part of this discussion is that not one poster other than myself, that I recall, has said 7 or 8 or more jabs is dangerous.

You mean people aren't agreeing with your unbacked and baseless assertions? What a shock.

 

[Clayton Moore]

More vaccine industry shenanigans.
http://www.quora.com/Gary-Null-1/A-.../A-New-Flu-Season-of-Pain-Profit-and-Politics

Perhaps the vaccine industry’s single and most vital error to determine whether flu vaccines are effective lies in its unsound belief that measuring antibodies following vaccination is indicative of protection from flu infection. Therefore studies are strictly designed to quantify antibody levels and not to discover whether the vaccine actually prevenst disease. This primitive and biologic-denying creed is a major reason why more voices in the scientific community acknowledge that the entire premise of the flu vaccine is based upon junk science. As a result, one of the very few double blind placebo controlled trials on Sanofi Pasteur’s Vaxigrip influenza vaccine, utilizing a genuine placebo (saline solution), noted a 5.5 times higher rate in respiratory infections caused by non-influenza viruses in the vaccinated group compared to the unvaccinated.[vii]