Why does America still endorse the One Drop Rule?

[superfreddy]

I don't know... but if your going to claim to be black, you have to be able to walk into a store and get followed.... not be able to hail a cab, ect..

Soledad O'brien gets is not black in any practical sense. She got all high and mighty when Jesse Jackson told her she didn't count as a black news anchor.

Yeah, we Latinos complicate the issue of race even further. I don't know what race I am. "Hispanic" is not a race. I look as white as my Irish neighbors, albeit my hair being darker. I guess I could qualify as black, since my grandmother was black (sort of). Does that make me "mulatto", just like LYS said?

 

[332nd]

You're not black, you're a mulatto. If both of your parents were not black then you certainly are not black.

Dad was black & white, mom was black & Cherokee... Both were considered black also.

 

[theprestige]

If I had to guess, I'd say the real name for the problem L.Y.S. is trying to solve is "racism". And I don't think that it's endorsed in the sense she implies--at least not to nearly the extent she seems to think.

Regarding the "mixed black but not mixed white" problem, I don't think that's even racism, really. I think it's just the natural "default" state that any majority/minority society falls into. If the majority is "white", then variations will conventionally be referred to in terms of varying from the "white" majority. If the majority is "black", variations would be described as some amount of "white". "Black" would be the majority reference point.

For arbitrary values of "black" and "white", obviously.

Some people are certainly racists, who will irrationally hold a person's one minority grandparent against them, and consider them to be a member of that minority because of it. I don't know how strongly endorsed, or widely endorsed, this view is in America.

 

[superfreddy]

Dad was black & white, mom was black & Cherokee... Both were considered black also.

You're a mutt! Welcome to my pack

 

[332nd]

You're a mutt! Welcome to my pack

LOL! Mutt was my nickname when I played football. ARROOOOOO!

ETA: Ironically, it had nothing to do with my genetic makeup... At first anyway...

 

[L.Y.S.]

Yes, please. I'm really curious about that. I don't see how one can get away from the one-drop rule (or at least what I'd call a one-drop rule) as long as one is using percentages to categorize people as white, black, mulatto, etc.

And yet because no one is pure--or at least no white person is pure--percentages are always necessary. I gave an example in Post #70 of how a mother with only one black great great great grandparent in an otherwise white family could prevent her offspring from being considered white, based on L.Y.S.'s reckoning.

Stop moving the goal posts. I've never supported purity, point me to the post where I vehemently supported purity. This is not about racial purity, it is about racial integrity. There is a huge difference. That same women could still be considered black , even though she's clearly white. AND THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL I'D CALL THAT WOMAN OR HER OFFSPING BLACK. Stop twisting my words. If that woman has white parents, and has a white spouse, then her kids are white.

 

[L.Y.S.]

If I had to guess, I'd say the real name for the problem L.Y.S. is trying to solve is "racism". And I don't think that it's endorsed in the sense she implies--at least not to nearly the extent she seems to think.

Regarding the "mixed black but not mixed white" problem, I don't think that's even racism, really. I think it's just the natural "default" state that any majority/minority society falls into. If the majority is "white", then variations will conventionally be referred to in terms of varying from the "white" majority. If the majority is "black", variations would be described as some amount of "white". "Black" would be the majority reference point.

For arbitrary values of "black" and "white", obviously.

Some people are certainly racists, who will irrationally hold a person's one minority grandparent against them, and consider them to be a member of that minority because of it. I don't know how strongly endorsed, or widely endorsed, this view is in America.

Firstly, I'm not a woman. I've made it very clear that I am a black man.

Secondly, how can you argue the point of your second paragraph. You just proved my point. The dominate society pawns off those they deem undesirable or "not them" to the minority society. The minority society is left with a warped sense of self and identity. It would be wrong if the reverse were true as well. Denying a person the right to be described in the entirety of their origins is wrong. If a person is mixed they are mixed. A mixed person looks nothing like me. They look nothing like a white person. They look unique and individual. They are unique and individual. They should be counted as unique and individual.

Lastly, stop it with the liberal bull crap. When Redtail can still call himself black because of some black grandparents, the one-drop rule is alive and well. His parents aren't black, neither is he. It's a widely accepted principal that needs to vanish.

 

[L.Y.S.]

Dad was black & white, mom was black & Cherokee... Both were considered black also.

Well they aren't black either. Everyone in your family is mixed. There is nothing wrong with that. That doesn't mean your parents are animals or evil. It just means that they are mixed. It means you are mixed as well. I know your parents are from the depression era and the one drop rule was in full effect, but in the modern day they would be considered mixed.

 

[theprestige]

Firstly, I'm not a woman. I've made it very clear that I am a black man.

In this thread? I apologize if I missed it. I have avatars and signatures turned off on this forum, so if you've put the info there, I'll never see it. To be honest, race and gender on the Internet don't mean much to me. If it's important to you to identify yourself as a black man, go right ahead. It's usually not very important to me, but since you mentioned it, I'd like to come back to it a little further down.

Secondly, how can you argue the point of your second paragraph it's stupid. You just proved my point. The dominate society pawns off the mixed children to the minority society. It would be wrong if the reverse was true as well. Denying a person being described as the entirety of their origins is wrong.

Their description, and their origin, are a lot more than just the ratio of whiteness to blackness in their recent ancestry. I'd say it's even more wrong to reduce their description to just that one metric.

If a person is mixed they are mixed. A mixed person looks nothing like me. They look nothing like a white person. They look unique and individual.

First, I have no idea what you look like.

Second, how did you determine that you are what "black" looks like?

Third, your appearance aside, how do you define "black"? Is it really just about skin tone for you?

Fourth, and perhaps most important, "[a] mixed person looks nothing like me. They look nothing like a white person. They look unique and individual" is blatantly racist. It's condescending and demeaning. And racist.

Lastly, stop it with the liberal bull crap.

Is this the traditional pairing of racist rhetoric with accusations of "liberal bull crap" against anyone who demurs? Because it sure seems like it.

When Redtail can still call himself black because of some black grandparents, the one drop rule is alive and well. His parents aren't black, neither is he. It's a widely accepted principal.

Let's leave Redtail out of it. You've made your own racial purity integrity a part of the discussion, so let's talk about that, instead: What makes you black?

 

[L.Y.S.]

Yeah, we Latinos complicate the issue of race even further. I don't know what race I am. "Hispanic" is not a race. I look as white as my Irish neighbors, albeit my hair being darker. I guess I could qualify as black, since my grandmother was black (sort of). Does that make me "mulatto", just like LYS said?

With the exception of natives and Afro-Latinos, most Hispanics are white/near white and will be absorbed into white populations in the up and coming decades. You are not a mulatto, you are quadroon. If you have a third generation of white you are white.

ETA: Oh, and you don't qualify for black. You have a black grandparent for god sakes. This is what I talk about when I talk about the one-drop rule.

 

[L.Y.S.]

In this thread? I apologize if I missed it. I have avatars and signatures turned off on this forum, so if you've put the info there, I'll never see it. To be honest, race and gender on the Internet don't mean much to me. If it's important to you to identify yourself as a black man, go right ahead. It's usually not very important to me, but since you mentioned it, I'd like to come back to it a little further down.


Their description, and their origin, are a lot more than just the ratio of whiteness to blackness in their recent ancestry. I'd say it's even more wrong to reduce their description to just that one metric.

Having an ancestor of another "single race background" (3 or more generations of ancestry to one pan-ethnic) in the past 3 generations makes them mixed. For example, if I had a great parent who was white, then I would be white. If my last white ancestor was a great great grandparent, then I would be black. 3 generations of one pan-ethnic group makes you that race.

First, I have no idea what you look like.

I'm actually fairly dark with the standard wide nose and big lips. I'm probably almost as dark as gardening dirt. I'm pretty black and pretty proud of it.

Third, your appearance aside, how do you define "black"? Is it really just about skin tone for you?

Nope, three generations of black ancestry and you're black. Meaning that an individual with one non-black relative in the last 3 generations is mixed.

mixed person looks nothing like me. They look nothing like a white person. They look unique and individual" is blatantly racist. It's condescending and demeaning. And racist.

It's not racist. I'm confirming the obvious which is racist in a pc society that wants to keep people confused. They don't look like me. They look like a mix of two different racial groups. I don't understand how that is racist. I've said dozens of times already that people who are mixed are not bad people, they are just mixed. People have used the "racist" slur to slow people down from making comments about pressing issues regarding race. Black people have been forced to accept an idea of race which promotes disharmony and disunity.

Let's leave Redtail out of it. You've made your own racial purity integrity a part of the discussion, so let's talk about that, instead: What makes you black?

Let's ask a different question, what makes a person white? Why can't a mixed person be considered white? And I won't leave redtail out of this since he's injected himself into this conversation.

ETA: Race is not an ethnic group but a series of regional haplogroup, genetic, and phenotypical associations. That at its core is race. All these meandering comments about ethnic groups are irrelevant. Ethnic/national groups are separations which exist within races, not in spite of them.

ETA/ETA: Just wanted to let you know, I have not had an ancestor of another race in the previous 5 generations. The last non-black ancestors that I've had occurred shortly after the Civil War, my grandparent's grandparents. My father's paternal family is from Nigeria who arrived in America a few decades after the British colonized modern day Nigeria. I'm ethnically Igbo.

 

[chrispy]

May I make a suggestion. There is a readily available book used in many sociology courses and human geography courses that sums up this issue in an easy to read, genetics -based way. For those of you more scientifically versed than myself it may be low level, but for those looking for an easy read introduction to the genetic side of this issue, the book is called "Who is Black". Interesting read, at the least. BTW, it goes into the history of the one-drop rule and the effects of that rule into the 20th century.

 

[L.Y.S.]

May I make a suggestion. There is a readily available book used in many sociology courses and human geography courses that sums up this issue in an easy to read, genetics -based way. For those of you more scientifically versed than myself it may be low level, but for those looking for an easy read introduction to the genetic side of this issue, the book is called "Who is Black". Interesting read, at the least. BTW, it goes into the history of the one-drop rule and the effects of that rule into the 20th century.

I'll definitely give it a shot.

 

[chrispy]

I'll definitely give it a shot.

That said, while it attempts to give a social answer as to why the rule continues to be accepted (not enforced), that answer feels incomplete. The multitude of ethnic and hereditary combinations makes it difficult to quantify the equally multitudinous feelings about racial and ethnic labeling, stereotyping, and profiling. As one of mixed heritage, think of it as an introduction to the socio-psychology of the issue.

 

[L.Y.S.]

That said, while it attempts to give a social answer as to why the rule continues to be accepted (not enforced), that answer feels incomplete. The multitude of ethnic and hereditary combinations makes it difficult to quantify the equally multitudinous feelings about racial and ethnic labeling, stereotyping, and profiling. As one of mixed heritage, think of it as an introduction to the socio-psychology of the issue.

We should have diverse racial categories similar to the ones which exist in Latin America. That is probably closer to the truth of things than what exists here in the U.S. The U.S. oversimplifies race in several key ways. This one-drop rule being one of them. However, I will note that Latin America often overcomplicates things. Both systems can use a reform, but a combination of the two in some rational ways will be much better than what we have now either way.

 

[chrispy]

We should have diverse racial categories similar to the ones which exist in Latin America. That is probably closer to the truth of things than what exists here in the U.S. The U.S. oversimplifies race in several key ways. This one-drop rule being one of them.

Why do you need to have categories? As it exists today, the 'rule' is simply accepted, but that doesn't make it fact. I am me. I am American. I am human. I don't NEED to be categorized. If we are talking history, fine. If we are talking genetic drift and heritage, fine. If we are talking categorizing and designating, not so fine. That simply serves to separate and divide, in all social terms.

 

[Caper]

I have kind of a question or point I would like to bring up. I don't know what it is like elsewhere but here in my city I have noticed a lot of the interracial couples I have seen, involved a white woman and a black male who would be considered dark skinned in the black community.... usually an African immigrant. When I was doing temp agency jobs, 6 or 7 years ago, I would work in places that had many African men... and a lot were married to white women... Or dating.

I had heard that dark skinned blacks felt some degree of racism in their own community. I wondered if African men on some level felt these pressures and on some level were attracted to white women, so their children would have lighter skin then them... Thus having an easier time to assimulate. Like Barrack.

 

[L.Y.S.]

Why do you need to have categories? As it exists today, the 'rule' is simply accepted, but that doesn't make it fact. I am me. I am American. I am human. I don't NEED to be categorized. If we are talking history, fine. If we are talking genetic drift and heritage, fine. If we are talking categorizing and designating, not so fine. That simply serves to separate and divide, in all social terms.

Everyone falls into some category. Unfortunately race is one of them. Society has always been divided since its inception. Only its collapse will bring about an end to the idea of race.

 

[ABC10]

With the exception of natives and Afro-Latinos, most Hispanics are white/near white and will be absorbed into white populations in the up and coming decades. You are not a mulatto, you are quadroon. If you have a third generation of white you are white.

ETA: Oh, and you don't qualify for black. You have a black grandparent for god sakes. This is what I talk about when I talk about the one-drop rule.

Actually not. Native Latino are descended from Asians who crossed the Bering Straits land bridge to America over 10,000 years ago. They share the common traits of Asians with straight black hair, shot noses, broad faces, short statue and medium skin tone. They are mainly the folk coming to America.
Hispanics who descended from the people of Spain if you will are white with large noses, fine straight hair, tall with white skin are from the Spainards who invaded South and Central America. They are two different races entirely. The native populations have a variety of names like Inuit in Alaska, Native Americans in the USA, and Amerindians in Central and South America. Central, South America. Cuba, Haiti, Dominican Republic and Islands are obsessed with color. We in North America are not.

 

[L.Y.S.]

I have kind of a question or point I would like to bring up. I don't know what it is like elsewhere but here in my city I have noticed a lot of the interracial couples I have seen, involved a white woman and a black male who would be considered dark skinned in the black community.... usually an African immigrant. When I was doing temp agency jobs, 6 or 7 years ago, I would work in places that had many African men... and a lot were married to white women... Or dating.

I had heard that dark skinned blacks felt some degree of racism in their own community. I wondered if African men on some level felt these pressures and on some level were attracted to white women, so their children would have lighter skin then them... Thus having an easier time to assimulate. Like Barrack.

Yes Caper, dark skinned males are often ostracized and called darkie by other black people. Listen to virtually every famous dark skinned male, they'll tell you virtually the same story about their dark skin. Being taunted for the complexion of your skin by other black people is a part of growing. The overwhelming rejection of dark skin in the black community is frightening. Blacks are honestly some of the most self hating individuals on the planet. The self loathing is simply incredible and frightening. Tyra did an excellent special about darkness and beauty. This phenomenon is one of the many reasons why I began to reevaluate my concepts of race. Blacks are free but still enforce slave norms on other blacks. This is where the one-drop rule comes into play.

ETA: Dark skinned females who shun away from wearing perms/weaves often receive the same backlash as dark skin males.