Continuation Part Six: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

Status
Not open for further replies.
This post seems a little out of character for you Machiavelli. I think others have suggested that sleep deprivation might be playing a role in your thought process, perhaps meant humorously, but based on this post I wonder if it might not really be playing some role in your thought process.

I have mentioned before that you and your posting style has interested me. You have a remarkably detailed knowledge of this case and have shown considerable skill and intelligence in your posts as an advocate for a particular point of view (even if disagree with quite a bit of your view).

Was I wrong about you? This post quoted here suggests an almost child like understanding of the real world. There is no possible crime in what LJ has said with regard to Stefanoni's education. Even in Italy where it seems libel can be a criminal issue there is still no possibility of a crime. Even if LJ was wrong and Stefanoni had earned the equivalent of a PhD in the UK there would still not be a crime here. (...)

Believe me, making a false assertion of this kind is particularly worth of a defamation lawsuit. This does not depend on the gravity of the assertion. It obviously looks like a more serious matter if you accuse someone of being a criminal or a liar. But making unsupported statements about official information about people is extremely serious because of the easiness of information verification.

While, when you say someone is 'a cheater' there may be an element of personal opinion or judgement in this, or an element of vagueness, and it might be complex and difficult to verify the information, it is very easy to verify if someone has a PhD (or if he/she is married, if has a degree or so). This is official information and there is no wriggle room for taking the freedom of making wild assertions. Either you have information, or you haven't. If you provide information about this, you have the duty to verify it and give it accurately because you can't tell 'I couldn't verify'. So you can't escape the element of malice.
 
Last edited:
Machiavelli said:
Prove it.
Those who make unsupported defamatory allegations about people, are criminals (as for the Italian penal code, art 595, § 2, 3, aggravated defamation).

This post seems a little out of character for you Machiavelli. I think others have suggested that sleep deprivation might be playing a role in your thought process, perhaps meant humorously, but based on this post I wonder if it might not really be playing some role in your thought process.
I have mentioned before that you and your posting style has interested me. You have a remarkably detailed knowledge of this case and have shown considerable skill and intelligence in your posts as an advocate for a particular point of view (even if disagree with quite a bit of your view).

Was I wrong about you? This post quoted here suggests an almost child like understanding of the real world. There is no possible crime in what LJ has said with regard to Stefanoni's education. Even in Italy where it seems libel can be a criminal issue there is still no possibility of a crime. Even if LJ was wrong and Stefanoni had earned the equivalent of a PhD in the UK there would still not be a crime here. Can you show that LJ has the slightest intent to deceive? Can you show that there was obvious information available that LJ should have been aware of before he made his statement? Can you show that LJ refused to retract his statement when he was shown evidence that he was wrong? Can you show that this is a remotely significant issue that could have the slightest impact on the life of Stephanoni?

After all your comments on this you can't even present evidence that Stephanoni has the equivalent of a PhD which, even in Italy, would be the tiniest first step towards finding LJ guilty of a criminal offense.

You have never withdrawn a comment or admitted an error since I have been reading your posts. That is fine with me. I accept the fact that the role you wish to play in this thread is that of an unrelenting advocate for your view about the Kercher murder. But if you ever consider posting a reconsideration of one of your posts, I think you might take a look at this one.
Please do not include me in thinking this humourous. I know you weren't, I just want to be on record as saying that "sleep" is serious business, and it might be good if Machiavelli just withdrew for a while and mended... I mean that seriously.

Lately there have been some particularly incomprehensible posts, and if he's where I think he is in the world, these are posts mainly made in the wee hours of the night... he also posted last Wednesday from the courtroom, the session began at 10 am acc. to Andrea Vogt.

The seriousness of this is that PIP are ones who claim that sleep deprivation issues was operative for Amanda Knox at interrogation, esp. after the brutal murder of her friend. Even Judge Massei lists the stresses on Knox - away from family, etc. What friends back in Seattle also say is that she'd try to fight through stress and exhaustion and grief to try to be of help... all actions which were grossly misinterpreted by PLE...

... the point being, ironically, is that Machiavelli has a self-confessed issue with sleep (that he should not be teased about). Yet it is, to me anyway, evident in his postings. My feeling is that he simply would not make obviously bizarre postings if this were not a factor....

Machiavelli obviously also as a connection with prime-agents on the "prosecution side" often revealing things well, well before they are known publicly. He seems to be able to quote Galati, and also seemed to be able to anticipate the March 2013 ISC reversal.

I disagree strongly with reasons why it was reversed, but the point here is that Machiavelli is obviously plugged into that side of the world, is obviously an advocate for that side (he's called it a war, where sometimes things need to be withheld for tactical reasons)....

..... he's talked of Masonic conspiracies, as well as potential criminal activities of people like Vecchiotti.....

.... and then he's rambled. Almost incoherently.

No one, no one should tease Machiavelli for potential health issues. Yet it truly is hard not to take it into account in trying to parse some of the more incoherent stuff.

He does not have to post.... those around him should be made aware and take the action that they consider appropriate.
 
Last edited:
This post seems a little out of character for you Machiavelli. I think others have suggested that sleep deprivation might be playing a role in your thought process, perhaps meant humorously, but based on this post I wonder if it might not really be playing some role in your thought process.

I have mentioned before that you and your posting style has interested me. You have a remarkably detailed knowledge of this case and have shown considerable skill and intelligence in your posts as an advocate for a particular point of view (even if disagree with quite a bit of your view).

Was I wrong about you? This post quoted here suggests an almost child like understanding of the real world. There is no possible crime in what LJ has said with regard to Stefanoni's education. Even in Italy where it seems libel can be a criminal issue there is still no possibility of a crime. Even if LJ was wrong and Stefanoni had earned the equivalent of a PhD in the UK there would still not be a crime here. Can you show that LJ has the slightest intent to deceive? Can you show that there was obvious information available that LJ should have been aware of before he made his statement? Can you show that LJ refused to retract his statement when he was shown evidence that he was wrong? Can you show that this is a remotely significant issue that could have the slightest impact on the life of Stephanoni?

After all your comments on this you can't even present evidence that Stephanoni has the equivalent of a PhD which, even in Italy, would be the tiniest first step towards finding LJ guilty of a criminal offense.

You have never withdrawn a comment or admitted an error since I have been reading your posts. That is fine with me. I accept the fact that the role you wish to play in this thread is that of an unrelenting advocate for your view about the Kercher murder. But if you ever consider posting a reconsideration of one of your posts, I think you might take a look at this one.

See above for the predictable twaddle in response to your thoughtful post.

You are a gentleman, and I am always genuinely impressed by the thought and care you put into your words here. And so I feel a sense of duty to reiterate, that, unless your interest in the exchange with the poster in question is merely ethnographic, you would be better served expecting a tree frog to recite the Cyrillic alphabet than to expect him to concede a single, solitary point.

But, again, I sincerely feel that your clear-eyed synthesis of the material here has been genuinely helpful and refreshing.
 
(...)
You have never withdrawn a comment or admitted an error since I have been reading your posts. That is fine with me. I accept the fact that the role you wish to play in this thread is that of an unrelenting advocate for your view about the Kercher murder. But if you ever consider posting a reconsideration of one of your posts, I think you might take a look at this one.

I think it's fair to say that many posters here never said they were wrong on something. (I did say that sometimes, although I can't recall now the topics).

Anyway I consider as a given or a probable fact that I was wrong on some piece of information just on statistical grounds: the whole information I dealt with is huge, and anybody would get something wrong. So I assume I did too on some detail, I could have done mistakes of translation, language, dates, names, reports, I think sure it could well be.

However, what I could be wrong about might have been some information which does not have any implication on my arguments. For example I might have been wrong in recalling details of the "I was there" prison wiretapping, which is an irrelevant topic (while the attempt by a smearing machine mob to 'use' the detail against a honest impartial journalist which they don't like, is not an irrelevant topic). I probably never "withdrew" a comment and think it's improbable that I will do that on forceful assertions, or when I say something which I believe it's important.
 
I don't think it is a strong point that they wouldn't keep the knife or that they would never have transported it to the cottage. If they were guilty then the whole thing would be a crazy act.

Now, I don't think the knife was involved in the murder for many reasons just not they would never have used it or kept it.

Really?? What planet are you from?? Seriously??

Of course if they did it, would have been a crazy act. Still, if it was as Massei argues a moment of evil and that Amanda and Raffaele had no motive...then why would they have transported the knife to and from the apartment to the cottage?

Do you really think that Amanda would have carried this knife for protection?
Do you think Raffaele would have given this knife to cook at the cottage??

It is beyond crazy Grinder, it is monumentally stupid.
 
I think it's fair to say that many posters here never said they were wrong on something. (I did say that sometimes, although I can't recall now the topics).

Anyway I consider as a given or a probable fact that I was wrong on some piece of information just on statistical grounds: the whole information I dealt with is huge, and anybody would get something wrong. So I assume I did too on some detail, I could have done mistakes of translation, language, dates, names, reports, I think sure it could well be.

However, what I could be wrong about might have been some information which does not have any implication on my arguments. For example I might have been wrong in recalling details of the "I was there" prison wiretapping, which is an irrelevant topic (while the attempt by a smearing machine mob to 'use' the detail against a honest impartial journalist which they don't like, is not an irrelevant topic). I probably never "withdrew" a comment and think it's improbable that I will do that on forceful assertions, or when I say something which I believe it's important.

Are you serious with this silly rant Machiavelli? Should we play a tiny violin for you? I've admitted being wrong on multiple points and have been rightly corrected by Charles, Dan O, and Halkides.

I have no problem with anyone being wrong. Sometimes everyone is mistaken. That said, you pour on a mixture of obfuscation and intellectual dishonesty that boggles a logical mind. You cling to dishonest arguments that either have just a kernel of truth or are totally fallacious.

But I'll give you this, you practice your sophistry with style. I'm curious if your motto is if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bs?
 
However, what I could be wrong about might have been some information which does not have any implication on my arguments. For example I might have been wrong in recalling details of the "I was there" prison wiretapping, which is an irrelevant topic (while the attempt by a smearing machine mob to 'use' the detail against a honest impartial journalist which they don't like, is not an irrelevant topic). I probably never "withdrew" a comment and think it's improbable that I will do that on forceful assertions, or when I say something which I believe it's important.

Do you stand by your comment that the key to understanding the "I was there" comment made by Amanda Knox, and misinterpreted by Andrea Vogt, is that Amanda and her mother were talking in "Mafia Code"?

Why is it a "smearing machine" to point out that Andrea Vogt was wrong in her reporting, that she never withdrew her mistake, and that you rationalised it with the "Mafia Code" excuse?

In what way, shape or form is Andrea Vogt an impartial journalist?
 
I think it's fair to say that many posters here never said they were wrong on something. (I did say that sometimes, although I can't recall now the topics).

You've your share of things right too. Helping with the translations being a large one for which I owe you thanks. think many people who post her owe you thanks for that, even if they are reluctant to tell you.

Also, you keep fighting for what you believe, even if I cannot figure out why you still do. (You really think that 'whiner' as you called him had what it took to brutally slay Ms Kercher and then not try to pin it on Knox, even after six years, and when she clearly is not interested in him and he could write his ticket to both freedom and wealth just by blaming her, even if it were a lie. I mean seriously - he murdered someone, you think he has been lying all this time, why not just make up whatever story helps him the most? Why not?)

Anyway, that is not why I am writing. Having just looked through Massei about the footprints in the corridor, it seems pretty clear that the TMB testing was done after the DNA testing. Do you agree?
 
Really?? What planet are you from?? Seriously??

Of course if they did it, would have been a crazy act. Still, if it was as Massei argues a moment of evil and that Amanda and Raffaele had no motive...then why would they have transported the knife to and from the apartment to the cottage?

Do you really think that Amanda would have carried this knife for protection?
Do you think Raffaele would have given this knife to cook at the cottage??

It is beyond crazy Grinder, it is monumentally stupid.

The problem with that knife, really, is which element of either Massei's theory, or anyone else's, is the stupidest?

Massei's "innocent use" of the knife is right up there... Amanda carries it for protection, even though Raffaele has a knife, and acc. to Massei when Amanda and Raffaele, making out in Amanda's room, go in to check what the ruckus is all about in Meredith's room... they actually bring the knife! (Actually, that may be the least silly claim... IF they'd intended to use it on Rudy to protect Meredith....)

..... but they simply, inexplicably even for Massei chose evil.....

..... and THEN, replaced the knife back at Raffaele's.

The prosecution accepted a huge millstone of a burden in entertaining that knife for anything.... particularly now in Nov 2013 when the RIS Carabinieri have all-but ruled it out anyway.

This alone should trigger an inquiry into Stefanoni at the very least... it probably will not.

But of all the dumb, galactically silly theories, the one about replacing the knife to its original drawer is perhaps #2 or #3 of a lot of galactically silly theories.....

Truly, it's only merit is an incredulity that it would be advanced, leading one to be tempted to accept that it is true simply on the basis that no one would have the kojones, really, to make this up....

Except they did. It's not even remotely likely, possible, probably or.... look, it just did not happen.
 
Really?? What planet are you from?? Seriously??

Of course if they did it, would have been a crazy act. Still, if it was as Massei argues a moment of evil and that Amanda and Raffaele had no motive...then why would they have transported the knife to and from the apartment to the cottage?

Do you really think that Amanda would have carried this knife for protection?
Do you think Raffaele would have given this knife to cook at the cottage??

It is beyond crazy Grinder, it is monumentally stupid.

Tesla I believe you suffer from confirmation bias. You so stronger are sure that Amanda had nothing to do with the crime that you can't look at anything without that overwhelming you.

It is totally idiotic to use Massei as touchstone. I really don't care what he thought about anything. I use his report for "facts" presented during the trial but not for his opinion.

Of course, Amanda didn't carry it for protection. You are unable to focus on whether that is a strong argument that they would never have taken a knife over and returned it.

Now what you must do is imagine that they killed Meredith, tried to set-up Patrick, continue to lie about their involvement, harbored hatred for Meredith, stole her money most likely for drugs and staged the beak-in. Now, if all that were true would you say that the knife is just too weird? Would you argue that it couldn't have been part of the crime because Amanda would never carry it?

I do not in any way agree that if they were part of this crazy crime, which it would be if they took part, that the knife would be the craziest part.

Now if you are saying that what you put forward as an argument is stupid, we are in agreement.
 
The problem with that knife, really, is which element of either Massei's theory, or anyone else's, is the stupidest?

Massei's "innocent use" of the knife is right up there... Amanda carries it for protection, even though Raffaele has a knife, and acc. to Massei when Amanda and Raffaele, making out in Amanda's room, go in to check what the ruckus is all about in Meredith's room... they actually bring the knife! (Actually, that may be the least silly claim... IF they'd intended to use it on Rudy to protect Meredith....)

..... but they simply, inexplicably even for Massei chose evil.....

..... and THEN, replaced the knife back at Raffaele's.

The prosecution accepted a huge millstone of a burden in entertaining that knife for anything.... particularly now in Nov 2013 when the RIS Carabinieri have all-but ruled it out anyway.

This alone should trigger an inquiry into Stefanoni at the very least... it probably will not.

But of all the dumb, galactically silly theories, the one about replacing the knife to its original drawer is perhaps #2 or #3 of a lot of galactically silly theories.....

Truly, it's only merit is an incredulity that it would be advanced, leading one to be tempted to accept that it is true simply on the basis that no one would have the kojones, really, to make this up....

Except they did. It's not even remotely likely, possible, probably or.... look, it just did not happen.

Bill where would they have disposed of the knife? Knowing enough about DNA from watching CSI, they would have washed the knife and then poured bleach on it and then washed it again and then left it in hot soapy water. I would be confident that the DNA would not be there.

Most of you here believe that Rudy took the knife that left the print and took it to Germany where he disposed of it. At some point that would mean that he had it in his place and cleaned it.

The idea that it would be easy to dispose of the knife just isn't well thought out. They would have just been involved in this violent murder. They would want to make sure they weren't connected to one of the murder knives. If the knife were found without a complete clean they would be caught for sure. They would think that every window had someone watching as they threw it or put somewhere that wouldn't be found.
 
Last edited:
Tesla I believe you suffer from confirmation bias. You so stronger are sure that Amanda had nothing to do with the crime that you can't look at anything without that overwhelming you.

It is totally idiotic to use Massei as touchstone. I really don't care what he thought about anything. I use his report for "facts" presented during the trial but not for his opinion.

Of course, Amanda didn't carry it for protection. You are unable to focus on whether that is a strong argument that they would never have taken a knife over and returned it.

Now what you must do is imagine that they killed Meredith, tried to set-up Patrick, continue to lie about their involvement, harbored hatred for Meredith, stole her money most likely for drugs and staged the beak-in. Now, if all that were true would you say that the knife is just too weird? Would you argue that it couldn't have been part of the crime because Amanda would never carry it?

I do not in any way agree that if they were part of this crazy crime, which it would be if they took part, that the knife would be the craziest part.

Now if you are saying that what you put forward as an argument is stupid, we are in agreement.

It is not confirmation bias to reject an incredibly silly argument.

Present a reasonable sane idea than I would say hmmmm, maybe.
I have no problem being wrong. Give me something that makes SOME SENSE. Because this doesn't. I'd have a hard time believing this knife was used if it was covered in Meredith's blood. (I would however have to concede that it was if that was the case) It's a cooking knife, not a murder weapon

There really is no reason at all for Amanda and Raffaele to have transported that knife. NONE. If it had been Halloween, instead of November 1, then I could see them carrying such a knife as part of a costume. But it wasn't.

I at one time thought that there might be a reason to consider this knife if Amanda had planned to kill Meredith. But given the cottage is filled with similar knives, therefore this doesn't really make much sense either.

Why would three people, Amanda, Raffaele...both of whom have plenty of money conspire with Rudy to steal just $300??? Split 3 ways, that is a $100 ea. Amanda probably makes that in tips on a Saturday night. And does Meredith have drugs?? Even if Amanda had some deep crazy unknown hatred for Meredith..which there is no evidence she did, do you really think she could enlist two virtual strangers to help her commit a homicide?

The problem with all respect, is that you are bending over backwards to entertain an idea that doesn't have even a moment's logic associated with it.
 
Last edited:
Now what you must do is imagine that they killed Meredith, tried to set-up Patrick, continue to lie about their involvement, harbored hatred for Meredith, stole her money most likely for drugs and staged the beak-in. Now, if all that were true would you say that the knife is just too weird?

Um, if we're in an alternate universe, then anything at all could be true, because the rules of that universe wouldn't be known.

Why must anyone imagine a dozen things that make no sense in the actual universe just to see how another crazy thing could fit perfectly into the fantasy? I don't follow.
 
Bill where would they have disposed of the knife? Knowing enough about DNA from watching CSI, they would have washed the knife and then poured bleach on it and then washed it again and then left it in hot soapy water. I would be confident that the DNA would not be there.

Most of you here believe that Rudy took the knife that left the print and took it to Germany where he disposed of it. At some point that would mean that he had it in his place and cleaned it.

The idea that it would be easy to dispose of the knife just isn't well thought out. They would have just been involved in this violent murder. They would want to make sure they weren't connected to one of the murder knives. If the knife were found without a complete clean they would be caught for sure. They would think that every window had someone watching as they threw it or put somewhere that wouldn't be found.

I default to people like John Douglas. Douglas learned through interviewing the perps themselves that it is useless to speculate all the possibilities that exist out there.

I wish his book was in electronic format, because I'd copy and paste. The long and the short of it is that the actual perps report the same sorts of things about how they do it, and what their actions are afterward.

As it says in the Wiki article on "Offender profiling", Douglas made a career out of taking a shortcut to limit who police might want to look for... creating these limits or "typologies" from what the offenders themselves told him at interview after they'd been caught.

John Douglas and Robert Ressler became pillars of offender profiling in the FBI. They spent much time studying convicted sex murderers and interviewing them, creating organized and disorganized typology, which is still in use today. Ressler was also responsible for the founding of the National Center for Analysis of Violent Crime (NCAVC) and at least partially responsible for the establishment of VICAP. Their studies provide more information on the behavioral patterns, traits and characteristics of criminals which can then be added to the offender profiling program.

Now if you're going to go for all the ifs, ands, and buts you could be correct - indeed anything, actually, IS possible.....

But Douglas looks at this and (although he doesn't specifically make mention of this one item) the thought that ANY perp would participate with others and then have BOTH agree to take the knife with them - particularly after doing a world-class clean-up to mask things at the scene - is taking credulity to the stratosphere.

Your scenario has them thinking about television programs, and seeking a remedy of cleaning and returning the knife. Whereas you will take me to task for assuming the probable - that they'd toss it in the nearest river, or heave it as far as they could into the forest right by the cottage.....

.... I would similarly take you to task for showing how this sort of cleaning and returning of a murder weapon (that they'd continue to cook with) is anything resembling the "typology" of known offenders.

I have no idea what Rudy did with the real murder weapon.... in fact, the typology of heading to Germany and the weapon being never seen again IS the typical behaviour.... ask Steve Moore. Read John Douglas's Law and Disorder.

What you'll find is his description of how horrible this crime is, but that it is also horribly typical - it simply does not need all this hoopla to explain things - in fact, to include all the hoopla has been the problem from the start.

John Douglas also says something else. He says that this tragic murder was a career case for most, if not all, in the PLE. To Douglas, though, this was simply another day at the office because he worked in the USA.

Guilters vilify Steve Moore.... good for them. I've never really seen a guilter lay into John Douglas. I wonder why?

Face it - ANY perp returning a murder weapon in this horrible saga back to normal use is beyond absurd.
 
Last edited:
News flash, pal: this is not Italy.

For going on the past millenium, the civilized western world has been disinclined to subscribe to such preposterous codes. For those of us who have gotten past the tendencies of the house of *Nero*, slander and libel are a bit more subtle.

And, not to put too fine a point on it, Patrizia Stefanoni is a hack, an incompetent, a boob, a liar, and, most certainly, not a doctor of any stripe.

I doubt she even graduated high school. She probably went into lab work because it was better than ending up like her mother.
 
Tesla I believe you suffer from confirmation bias. You so stronger are sure that Amanda had nothing to do with the crime that you can't look at anything without that overwhelming you.
It is totally idiotic to use Massei as touchstone. I really don't care what he thought about anything. I use his report for "facts" presented during the trial but not for his opinion.

Of course, Amanda didn't carry it for protection. You are unable to focus on whether that is a strong argument that they would never have taken a knife over and returned it.

Now what you must do is imagine that they killed Meredith, tried to set-up Patrick, continue to lie about their involvement, harbored hatred for Meredith, stole her money most likely for drugs and staged the beak-in. Now, if all that were true would you say that the knife is just too weird? Would you argue that it couldn't have been part of the crime because Amanda would never carry it?

I do not in any way agree that if they were part of this crazy crime, which it would be if they took part, that the knife would be the craziest part.

Now if you are saying that what you put forward as an argument is stupid, we are in agreement.

Whereas I agree it is idiotic to use Massei as a "touchstone", the highlighted part is simply a bizarre statement to make.

You're not describing confirmation bias. Just because someone has looked at evidence and come to a conclusion, does not make everything from that point "confirmation bias".
 
Whereas I agree it is idiotic to use Massei as a "touchstone", the highlighted part is simply a bizarre statement to make.

You're not describing confirmation bias. Just because someone has looked at evidence and come to a conclusion, does not make everything from that point "confirmation bias".

Thanks Bill. I do think Grinder is unfair attributing my dismissal of the knife as "confirmation bias".

If anything, I think it is a bias for logic. Just because something is possible as "anything is possible" doesn't really mean that it should be seriously entertained.

I see no logic with this knife. None at all. And I've seriously looked at it from every angle. I shake my head that it was even pulled from Raffaele's flat. That is confirmation bias. That is the police going after a specific suspect as opposed to trying to solve a crime.
 
Believe me, making a false assertion of this kind is particularly worth of a defamation lawsuit. This does not depend on the gravity of the assertion. It obviously looks like a more serious matter if you accuse someone of being a criminal or a liar. But making unsupported statements about official information about people is extremely serious because of the easiness of information verification.

While, when you say someone is 'a cheater' there may be an element of personal opinion or judgement in this, or an element of vagueness, and it might be complex and difficult to verify the information, it is very easy to verify if someone has a PhD (or if he/she is married, if has a degree or so). This is official information and there is no wriggle room for taking the freedom of making wild assertions. Either you have information, or you haven't. If you provide information about this, you have the duty to verify it and give it accurately because you can't tell 'I couldn't verify'. So you can't escape the element of malice.

Mach, you should by your own words, be careful in accusing a court appointed expert of lying in court and accusing that person of criminal activities. You may find yourself on the receiving end of a calunnia charge.
 
Well we all know she's a "Dr", but not in the sense of having a PhD or equivalent qualification.

You don't have to be PhD-qualified to author a research paper, by the way. Research papers from masters-level academics are common.

Even the names of lab technicians, data collectors and office managers will be included on papers if they helped with the project.

Believe me, making a false assertion of this kind is particularly worth of a defamation lawsuit. This does not depend on the gravity of the assertion. It obviously looks like a more serious matter if you accuse someone of being a criminal or a liar. But making unsupported statements about official information about people is extremely serious because of the easiness of information verification.

While, when you say someone is 'a cheater' there may be an element of personal opinion or judgement in this, or an element of vagueness, and it might be complex and difficult to verify the information, it is very easy to verify if someone has a PhD (or if he/she is married, if has a degree or so). This is official information and there is no wriggle room for taking the freedom of making wild assertions. Either you have information, or you haven't. If you provide information about this, you have the duty to verify it and give it accurately because you can't tell 'I couldn't verify'. So you can't escape the element of malice.

I have been kind of skimming these posts, but has anyone yet been able to verify whether or not Stefanoni has a Ph.D.? I don't think anyone would be making any claims about her qualifications if they were easy to verify.

If I had a Ph.D. and somebody said I didn't, I would just correct them. To take them to court because they didn't know what they were talking about is a bit over the top.

Those who make unsupported defamatory allegations about people, are criminals (as for the Italian penal code, art 595, § 2, 3, aggravated defamation).

Just as a point of information, Mach, is this the article in question in Mignini's lawsuit against Frank Sfarzo?
 
<snip>However, what I could be wrong about might have been some information which does not have any implication on my arguments. For example I might have been wrong in recalling details of the "I was there" prison wiretapping, which is an irrelevant topic (while the attempt by a smearing machine mob to 'use' the detail against a honest impartial journalist which they don't like, is not an irrelevant topic). I probably never "withdrew" a comment and think it's improbable that I will do that on forceful assertions, or when I say something which I believe it's important.

Personally, I think it is ridiculous to ask people to withdraw comments. It implies that something bad is going to happen as a result of the comment unless the comment is withdrawn.

Comments have no power in and of themselves; the only power they have is in the power we give them. If you don't like what somebody says, that's your problem, not theirs.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom