An Atheist's View of the Alpha Course

I believe the idea he's referring to is the tidal theory, which holds that the Sea of Reeds was something like this area on the coastline (or possibly a bit further to the East, just above the Gulf of Aqaba:


Doesn't fit. Exodus 13:21 says that "the lord went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire". If this "pillar of fire" was Santorini, that would lead them North-West across the Mediterranean. Exodus 14:19-20 has the Israelites and the pursuing Egyptians camping on either side of the pillar, which would mean that one or other of them had got to a point somewhere to the North or West of Santorini.
 
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Mojo it would fit if they were moving north to the sea. When they got to the shore, that's when the tsunami occurred.
It sounds more feasible than Moses lifting his staff
 
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Mojo it would fit if they were moving north to the sea. When they got to the shore, that's when the tsunami occurred.
It sounds more feasible than Moses lifting his staff


The whole thing being made up is even more feasible.
 
A quick google tells me that scholars tend to date the exodus at somewhere around 1200-1400BC. The big Santorini eruption occurred earlier, at around 1600 BC.


If light could travel faster in those times, so that light from the edge of the currentlly observable universe could get here in only 6,000 years, why couldn't a tsunami travel much, much slower than they do today?
 
I don't think the tsunami was made up, I think the story of Moses was built around it.
 
Doesn't fit. Exodus 13:21 says that "the lord went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire". If this "pillar of fire" was Santorini, that would lead them North-West across the Mediterranean. Exodus 14:19-20 has the Israelites and the pursuing Egyptians camping on either side of the pillar, which would mean that one or other of them had got to a point somewhere to the North or West of Santorini.
I'm not attempting to explain Exodus in that reference; I don't think Exodus is accurate to any real experience belonging to the Hebrew peoples.

Exodus arrives around the 5th c BCE following the Babylonian exile, or more clearly during and polished after.
As an exile text, its task is to remind the Hebrews of their identity, strengthen solidarity and reserve, and layout the plan for rebuilding.

The exile motif of Exodus can be easily understood as simply sympathetic and easy to relate to.
This may explain the Eden link in allegory within Mose's character and the story in general.
 
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Exodus is generally regarded as involving Moses leading the Israelites out of Egypt and into the Sinai desert.
 
I don't think the tsunami was made up, I think the story of Moses was built around it.

Possibly, but most likely not deliberately, more as an accumulation of disparate legends, myths, fables and half-remembered events that seemed to fit together quite well even though they had nothing to do with each other. But this tells us nothing that we didn't previously know - we know that there was an eruption and tsunami, and we know that people told stories about Moses, exile in Egypt, and so on. All you're offering is a speculative reason, without any firm foundation, to associate them.

It can be fun to play these games, coming up with mundane explanations of fantastical Biblical events (I remember watching a similarly speculative show about the Plagues of Egypt), but it tells us nothing. It doesn't prove that this is what really happened, and it doesn't prove that the recorded events happened at all, with or without divine intervention. It's just a form of historical pareidolia, where unrelated events appear to form a wider pattern.

Are we still talking about Alpha, or has that got forgotten in all the misreported translation errors and volcano-tsunami action? Because I could say a whole lot about that.
 
Possibly, but most likely not deliberately, more as an accumulation of disparate legends, myths, fables and half-remembered events that seemed to fit together quite well even though they had nothing to do with each other. But this tells us nothing that we didn't previously know - we know that there was an eruption and tsunami, and we know that people told stories about Moses, exile in Egypt, and so on. All you're offering is a speculative reason, without any firm foundation, to associate them.

It can be fun to play these games, coming up with mundane explanations of fantastical Biblical events (I remember watching a similarly speculative show about the Plagues of Egypt), but it tells us nothing. It doesn't prove that this is what really happened, and it doesn't prove that the recorded events happened at all, with or without divine intervention. It's just a form of historical pareidolia, where unrelated events appear to form a wider pattern.

Are we still talking about Alpha, or has that got forgotten in all the misreported translation errors and volcano-tsunami action? Because I could say a whole lot about that.

I don't find the explanations mundane I find them interesting/feasible. I too watched the prog on the seven plagues and that too has a scientific explanation rather than God causing it.
I too would like to read your info/opinion of Alpha
 
I don't find the explanations mundane I find them interesting/feasible.

I don't think "mundane" was intended to imply the explanations were uninteresting, but rather that they were non-supernatural. If a known and understood natural event accounts for the story, that rather undermines the story's apparent purpose - that of an example of miraculous intervention.

If some remote tribe of south seas islanders had a legend that their angry god had devoured their wicked enemies with fire, the discovery of an ancient settlement destroyed by a lava flow would provide a mundane but fascinating possible explanation for the tale.

I very much doubt that it would make me start to believe in their volcano god.
 
I agree Jack and I only started to believe in Moses as having lived when I knew of the tsunami. But I still don't believe he parted the waves and never did. But as posters have said on here, the Moses story most likely has been made up and the tsunami has been recounted to make believers think he had the power to part the sea.
There are too many conflicting details in the bible for it to be true such as in Acts Peter says ( 4 times ) Jesus was killed by being hanged from a tree
 
Ok so this is the latest, I attended the fifth night of the Alpha course and did not expect this. Bear in mind I am an atheist and finding it hard to believe. They took me in a room so there were three of them and just me and I am really nervous wondering what was about to happen. They said they were going to meditate and ask God who I am and did I agree to them doing that. I agreed and they were silent and meditated for about six/seven minutes whilst writing notes. Each one them said what they had been passed to them by God. I swear on my death bed as an atheist, they came out with stuff that they could not possibly have known about me. Everything they said was accurate. I was gobsmacked and couldn't believe what they were saying. I then told them that everything they said was true but they came across as mediums and I thought that mediums should be stoned to death according to the scriptures. They said that mediums called on spirits and therefore took work off God and that's why mediums are not acknowledged. I swear on my life that they came up with at least seven crucial things about me and my life that were accurate and no way could they have known some of the things because they were proper to my life about 40 years ago. This is not to say I believe in God. I do believe there is something up there but believe spirits/dead people came through not God
 
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Really? Cold reading? Good grief.

And I believe you're right - the bible says mediums should be stoned to death.
 

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