Greenpeace piracy?

[EHocking]

All of this is true. None of this changes the fact that what Russia did was illegal...

I don't necessarily agree that it was illegal, pushing the boundaries of the law perhaps - but the legality is not clear cut at the moment.

The first law that I thought the Russians could apply to the immediate "threat" of the small boats and attempts at boarding is that these vessels, and possibly the mother vessel, were in breach of the standard 500m safety exclusion zone that is internationally recognised.

This is usually covered by a state's hydrocarbon/mining law, but a law nonetheless. It is also a law that Greenpeace is well aware of, as per this action offshore by them in 2011,

Dodging the rig’s Danish navy guard,...

To ensure the delegation reached the rig we moved the Esperanza to the limit of the 500m exclusion zone imposed by the Danish navy.
​

Note, this is nothing to do with the EEZ, this is a safety zone around rigs and platforms.

There is a very enlightening article in the European Journal of International Law that discusses the very subject, and just how Russia has justified (so far) seizing the mother vessel and people on board.

Essentially - hot pursuit.

 

[gumboot]

I don't necessarily agree that it was illegal, pushing the boundaries of the law perhaps - but the legality is not clear cut at the moment.

The first law that I thought the Russians could apply to the immediate "threat" of the small boats and attempts at boarding is that these vessels, and possibly the mother vessel, were in breach of the standard 500m safety exclusion zone that is internationally recognised.

This is usually covered by a state's hydrocarbon/mining law, but a law nonetheless. It is also a law that Greenpeace is well aware of, as per this action offshore by them in 2011,

Dodging the rig’s Danish navy guard,...

To ensure the delegation reached the rig we moved the Esperanza to the limit of the 500m exclusion zone imposed by the Danish navy.
​

Note, this is nothing to do with the EEZ, this is a safety zone around rigs and platforms.

There is a very enlightening article in the European Journal of International Law that discusses the very subject, and just how Russia has justified (so far) seizing the mother vessel and people on board.

Essentially - hot pursuit.

Hrm, thanks for that. Very interesting read. Well now I am rethinking my position... looks like it's not as clear cut as I previously thought.

Thanks again for the info.

 

[EHocking]

Hrm, thanks for that. Very interesting read. Well now I am rethinking my position... looks like it's not as clear cut as I previously thought.

Thanks again for the info.

With absolutely no intention of offence, given the comments previously in the thread, been there done that.

Both with "innocent" locals fishing up against our rigs, as well as being intimidated by, er, "foreign" naval vessels in zones of "cooperation" and, indeed, dealing with real-life, actual pirates threatening to board - driven off only by the intervention of a "friendly" naval vessel and a low-flying F-111 at +mach.

 

[gumboot]

With absolutely no intention of offence, given the comments previously in the thread, been there done that.

Both with "innocent" locals fishing up against our rigs, as well as being intimidated by, er, "foreign" naval vessels in zones of "cooperation" and, indeed, dealing with real-life, actual pirates threatening to board - driven off only by the intervention of a "friendly" naval vessel and a low-flying F-111 at +mach.

That'll do the job!

 

[ddt]

And then there's two further news items.

First, in a further escalation of illegal actions, Friday, a Greenpeacce office in Murmansk was broken into. (link)

Secondly, the Netherlands has taken the case to the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea. The case was already filed on 4 October. But today, the Netherlands has asked for provisional measures, which include the release of the ship as well as release of the crew.

 

[timhau]

First, in a further escalation of illegal actions, Friday, a Greenpeacce office in Murmansk was broken into. (link)

Just another bit of peaceful action there.

 

[tyr_13]

And then there's two further news items.

First, in a further escalation of illegal actions, Friday, a Greenpeacce office in Murmansk was broken into. (link)

It started as a peaceful protest. They were just going to raise a banner.

 

[ddt]

It started as a peaceful protest. They were just going to raise a banner.

Oh, I agree. And it has escalated mainly due to the excessive Russian response.

Add to that the diplomatic incidents, and the Netherlands-Russia year is completely in tatters. There's even talk now that our king should cancel his state visit to Russia.

 

[tyr_13]

Oh, I agree. And it has escalated mainly due to the excessive Russian response.

Add to that the diplomatic incidents, and the Netherlands-Russia year is completely in tatters. There's even talk now that our king should cancel his state visit to Russia.

I was joking, using the Greenpeace claims to cover the breaking into their office. Putting the argument back at them as it were.

 

[Andy_Ross]

WHy blame the Russian authorities for the break in? If they wanted to go in they would just raid it wouldn't they? They can use the 'Piracy' as an excuse to do a search.

 

[timhau]

Add to that the diplomatic incidents, and the Netherlands-Russia year is completely in tatters. There's even talk now that our king should cancel his state visit to Russia.

Oh, come on now. There's no need to go for the nuclear option yet.

 

[cullennz]

I'm sure it will all turn out in the end.

Greenpeace got their publicity. In a few months they will probably be let off and get what's left of their boat back

 

[Sam.I.Am]

And then there's two further news items.

First, in a further escalation of illegal actions, Friday, a Greenpeacce office in Murmansk was broken into. (link)

Secondly, the Netherlands has taken the case to the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea. The case was already filed on 4 October. But today, the Netherlands has asked for provisional measures, which include the release of the ship as well as release of the crew.

So a cage was stolen... and? The insinuation that is being made is that the Russian Govt. is behind it, which begs the question why would they steal a cage which (I assume) was going to be used to represent their people locked up in jail?

As to the request for provisional measures that's pro-forma stuff. If the Netherlands had, in the past, treated other well documented complaints about their flagged ships activities regarding environmental activists (Greenpeace and Sea Shepherds being two notable examples) made by several nations then perhaps Russia might have trusted them to place their flagged ships crews under trial under their own court system for violating the international laws regarding safe navigation. They have refused to do so as far as I can tell. I base this upon how they have ignored the well documented actions of the Sea Shepherds colliding with (and sinking some) fishing vessels and proudly displaying those "Kills" on the side of their bridge superstructure. The Netherlands have proven themselves to be shielding their rogue ships and crews involved in environmental activism under their flag of convenience by their own actions.

 

[ddt]

WHy blame the Russian authorities for the break in? If they wanted to go in they would just raid it wouldn't they? They can use the 'Piracy' as an excuse to do a search.

So a cage was stolen... and? The insinuation that is being made is that the Russian Govt. is behind it, which begs the question why would they steal a cage which (I assume) was going to be used to represent their people locked up in jail?

I don't see that insinuation in the article I linked to, nor in my post about it. Yes, the authorities just can raid the office under legal means.

As to the request for provisional measures that's pro-forma stuff. If the Netherlands had, in the past, treated other well documented complaints about their flagged ships activities regarding environmental activists (Greenpeace and Sea Shepherds being two notable examples) made by several nations then perhaps Russia might have trusted them to place their flagged ships crews under trial under their own court system for violating the international laws regarding safe navigation. They have refused to do so as far as I can tell. I base this upon how they have ignored the well documented actions of the Sea Shepherds colliding with (and sinking some) fishing vessels and proudly displaying those "Kills" on the side of their bridge superstructure. The Netherlands have proven themselves to be shielding their rogue ships and crews involved in environmental activism under their flag of convenience by their own actions.

Can you give a link about this? All I could find about the Sea Shepherds (in a cursory search) was this article:

despite the fact that no charges had been laid against the Steve Irwin or Sea Shepherd by the Dutch, Japanese, or Australian governments in connection with Sea Shepherd efforts to end illegal Japanese whaling in the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary.

Research by the Dutch shipping inspectorate showed both sides had broken international sea rules, the minister said. The Japanese government refused to cooperate with the Dutch shipping inspectorate and therefore a complete investigation into the incidents in the Southern Ocean was not possible.

The highlighted stuff tells me that the Japanese government, nota bene the owner of the Nisshin Maru, was not interested to pursue any claims of wrongdoing by the Sea Shepherds. They wanted to skip the channels of justice and asked on political level to deflag the Steve Irwin.

I couldn't find any stuff about sinking fishing vessels.

 

[Eddie Dane]

The international community can't even be bothered with going after Assad for gassing thousands of people. If they can't do that for a Russian client state how the hell are they going to be bothered with Russia itself over this? The international community and what army? Winter is coming up, people in western Europe will want that Russian natural gas to keep warm. They'll dance to Putin's tune to get it. Thanks in no small part to Greenpeace much of Europe has shut down their nuke plants and stopped building new ones, they're more dependent on Russia than ever before. Oh, the irony!

Quoted for truth.
And I'm considering having this tattooed on my back.

On top of that, they've forced a diplomatic row between the Netherlands and Russia.
Which the Netherlands will publicly lose. Nuclear armed dictatorial bullies who control our energy supply completely trump small nations who only rely on legal principles and carefully worded letters.

I hear prisons in Russia are carbon neutral. No heating.

 

[timhau]

I hear prisons in Russia are carbon neutral. No heating.

They also serve an eco-friendy vegan diet -- gruel 7 days a week.

 

[EHocking]

So a cage was stolen... and? The insinuation that is being made is that the Russian Govt. is behind it, which begs the question why would they steal a cage which (I assume) was going to be used to represent their people locked up in jail?...

Note that the sole "source" of this is Greenpeace.
It wouldn't be the first time that Greenpeace have manipulated the media with disinformation.

 

[fuelair]

It started as a peaceful protest. They were just going to raise a banner.

On someone else's property without permission.

 

[fuelair]

Note, as to the Japanese illegal whaling (or anyone else's) I would be perfectly happy with an international/UN naval force bobbing around arresting crews and seizing ships involved in illegal whaling and tying them up for years in litigation. Do not like groups taking it up privately and endangering others with idiot activities/showboating.

 

[cullennz]

Note, as to the Japanese illegal whaling (or anyone else's) I would be perfectly happy with an international/UN naval force bobbing around arresting crews and seizing ships involved in illegal whaling and tying them up for years in litigation. Do not like groups taking it up privately and endangering others with idiot activities/showboating.

Japanese whaling isn't illegal