Continuation Part Six: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Grinder]

That's because she's pro-guilt. But, for the same reason, her statement about Comodi's demand on Mignini is a statement against interest and therefore bears greater indicia of reliability.

So her bad reporting is accurate if it helps Amanda but inaccurate if it hurts her.

The Comodi remark is worthless without some corroboration. She is too dense to have an opinion that matters. She stated at one point that the kids would have been found innocent if they had decent lawyers.

What proof do you have that she has a vested interest? How did the Comodi comment hurt Nadeau's interest.

Now when I show documented errors that CD makes in favor of Amanda and she DOES have a vested interest in innocence, somehow that doesn't cut it. CD is clearly a PIP and spoke at the FOA organized "the case for innocence" - is there any equivalent case for guilt Barbie participated in?

This is like Bill saying because Follain is pro Kercher that his accounts of what the cops said to each other the night of the interrogation must be accurate because they go against interest. Pffft.

In both cases their stories and books benefited and that's all there is to it. Neither one can be used as reasonable proof of anything when uncorroborated.

 

[Bill Williams]

Was the prosecution that effective in this case, or was the defense team handcuffed to the point of being ineffective? Or was the defense team under qualified to handle this case? It seems to me that any half decent defense team in an American court, would have demolished this case within one week.

I am no fan of Barbie Nadeau's, but when she reports for CNN she (mostly) behaves herself. On the night of the Dec 2009 conviction, she told CNN this: that the conviction resulted from a weak prosecution case, but that the defence case was weaker; "this could very well be overturned at appeal."

And then she, correctly, described the appeal's process as essentially a "do over".

My opinion is that the defence in fact DID demolish the case at the first trial. In fact if anyone bothers to read the Massei motivations document, Massei himself demolishes the prosecution's case, and then substitutes his own to justify a bad conviction.

It's just that the conviction resulted from a vote - a vote among six lay and two professional judges. It is rumoured that the vote was 8-0 for conviction, but that has never been shown definitively. Like any "vote", there really is no rationale, really, for it.

So, did the defence "demolish this case"? They may have assumed there simply was no case to demolish. Mignini called Meredith's friends to slag off on Amanda. At the end of the day even Massie concluded that the two women's relationship was normal....

Mignini had some sort of study that demonstrated that Raffaele was into violent porn and Amanda had an unhealthy sexual attraction to Meredith... Massei concluded that they had no psychopathology. And on and on.

To Mignini at trial this was a sex game gone wrong. Massei concluded that it was Rudy's lust and Rudy's alone which caused this crime.

Read Massei's report. Very few of Mignini's fantasies survived even Massei.

 

[acbytesla]

Sure hammer me. I do try to be correct but I'm sure you will soon find something I'm mistaken about. Actually I've been corrected on many things here and generally thank the person for the correction.

I don't think that I have ever done what he did with that aspect. Maybe you should go back and read his first 10 posts. The point of bringing it up is that it so similar to current "insights" no one else has, just like the callunnia.

Perhaps you can explain his obsession with Mignini's letter. Maybe you can provide the direct quote on "satanic rite" and why that expression is so important. I'm not saying that it is not possible that he said it but no one to date has produced it and using Nadeau as the source when we all know she isn't exactly an reliable source.

Sorry it didn't work out honey.

With all due respect Grinder, I don't think you try to be correct. I think you try to be precise. That is very different. You are almost always precise, even though I think you are occasionally wrong. Such as you are on this point and the starch.

IMO:

 

[Bill Williams]

So her bad reporting is accurate if it helps Amanda but inaccurate if it hurts her.

The Comodi remark is worthless without some corroboration. She is too dense to have an opinion that matters. She stated at one point that the kids would have been found innocent if they had decent lawyers.

What proof do you have that she has a vested interest? How did the Comodi comment hurt Nadeau's interest.

Grinder - you've made this point before. When someone has a bias (Knox is guilty) and a vested interest (she's just sold the film rights to her book for pete's sake!!!!!!!).......

It is no surprise that she writes stuff to buttress her position.

It's when she writes something against her position that everyone has a right to sit up and take notice. Aren't you even the littlest interested in why?

The last two questions you offer are silly.

 

[Bill Williams]

With all due respect Grinder, I don't think you try to be correct. I think you try to be precise. That is very different. You are almost always precise, even though I think you are occasionally wrong. Such as you are on this point and the starch.

IMO:

IMO Grinder also confuses "balanced" with "objective".

 

[Kaosium]

This paragraph does not wholly make sense. The first highlighted part seems to be saying that it did not make sense to connect the Halloween etc holidays with the murders, but the content clearly argues for that association (second highlighted part).

As for this association, I can also see that for Italians such as Mignini that this doe NOT refer to Satanism. Why? Because they are a culture steeped in religion and for them it would not be a loose association. They are specific about their gods and demons. For many others of us not of that society, all of the talk of "all souls, and night of the dead" or whatever are lumped together in our minds as close enough to satan. After all, what the heck is satan? What are dead souls? What importance are those holidays? To me they represent the night when you protect your children from real life perverts while you focus on having a good time and not letting them get sick off of too much candy. For those that practice ritual (I will let others define that and argue about that) religious holidays in a "deeper" sense, we would clearly be confused about our activities and purposes. In my mind, all the more ridiculous to apply this cultural idea to AK and even RS.

I think what he's doing there is making a distinction between the commercial Halloween celebrated in the US and the fact that October 31st is the Eve of All Saint's Day. As you'll recall, and posted to the effect of, Mignini cast Meredith as a Saint, in his closing in their trial he even put words in the mouth of Amanda 'saying' something to the effect of 'you're always being such a Saint (or whatever) now you will have sex!'

 

[Bill Williams]

This is like Bill saying because Follain is pro Kercher that his accounts of what the cops said to each other the night of the interrogation must be accurate because they go against interest. Pffft.

In both cases their stories and books benefited and that's all there is to it. Neither one can be used as reasonable proof of anything when uncorroborated.

Who ever said it was accurate? I said it was worthy of note, as acbytelsa seems to understand. You are confusing "accurate" with "worthy of note." Amongst other things.

 

[Diocletus]

So her bad reporting is accurate if it helps Amanda but inaccurate if it hurts her.

That's not what I said. What I said is that her reporting is not reliable when favorable for the prosecution, but more reliable when not favorable to the prosecution.

What proof do you have that she has a vested interest? How did the Comodi comment hurt Nadeau's interest.

That's not what I said, again. I never said that she had a "vested interest." I said that she is pro-prosecution.

Now when I show documented errors that CD makes in favor of Amanda and she DOES have a vested interest in innocence, somehow that doesn't cut it. CD is clearly a PIP and spoke at the FOA organized "the case for innocence" - is there any equivalent case for guilt Barbie participated in?

IDK. Her book perhaps?

This is like Bill saying because Follain is pro Kercher that his accounts of what the cops said to each other the night of the interrogation must be accurate because they go against interest. Pffft.

Bill is right. Statements against interest are more reliable than self-serving statements.

In both cases their stories and books benefited and that's all there is to it. Neither one can be used as reasonable proof of anything when uncorroborated.

Sure, corroboration would be nice, but that's not likely to happen for a number of reasons. A statement against interest bears some indicia of reliability, though, so we have that to go on.

 

[Grinder]

With all due respect Grinder, I don't think you try to be correct. I think you try to be precise. That is very different. You are almost always precise, even though I think you are occasionally wrong. Such as you are on this point and the starch.

IMO:

Tesla I think a few things like the starch are just above your pay grade. No one of consequence ever said that the DNA attributed to Meredith was in fact, starch.

You can defend CD all you want but she is a proponent, not a reporter, and she mouths the talking points of the FOA.

Did you listen to Amanda on channel five say that all the others had solid alibis?

 

[acbytesla]

I find this discussion about whether Mignini ever actually used the term "Satanism" to be a bit pointless. The fact that Mignini described the killing to be a sexual and sacrificial rite to be associated with Halloween and All Saints Day which is to celebrate the Dead kind of says it all. Does he mean that Amanda, Raffaele and Rudy were worshiping Satan specifically when Meredith was killed? I'm not sure. Does it sound like he is describing something to do with the underworld? ABSOLUTELY. There is a idea around Catholicism that you are either going with God or going with the Devil. Any religious rite that is sexual and sacrificial surely must be associated with the Devil?

 

[Diocletus]

As you'll recall, and posted to the effect of, Mignini cast Meredith as a Saint, in his closing in their trial he even put words in the mouth of Amanda 'saying' something to the effect of 'you're always being such a Saint (or whatever) now you will have sex!'

LOL. Mignini just makes up whatever he wants to say and out it comes. What a perv.

 

[Grinder]

Who ever said it was accurate? I said it was worthy of note, as acbytelsa seems to understand. You are confusing "accurate" with "worthy of note." Amongst other things.

You've been dealing with Mach for too long.

It is not worthy of note just because Follain is pro Kercher. In fact as part of another fictionalized account without corroboration it is worth nothing.

 

[Machiavelli]

(...)
Stop your whining, pop the titty out of your mouth, and understand that Americans are not xenophobic against Italy. (...)

Americans are in average xenophobic, as well as presumptuons and arrogant, against everyone.
Americans are simply racist and prejudicial in average, full stop, and they are not fully conscious of being so. They also massively look like extreme simpletons in their understanding of cultures, and of political, antropological and social phenomenons.

It does not mean that Italians are necessarily better human beings. They have their degree of racism, they are partly fascist and mafious. They can have the worse quality around (albeit they tend to keep a style different from Amaricans).
But bad qualities of Italians do not change the extraordinary degree of stupidity and arrogance demonstrated by US Americans. Actually the surprising element to me was the degree of falsehood and bias spread by the US media.
The US coverage of the case was, whether you like it or not, a mass of disgusting defamatory crap the networks made up to sell their story to the prejudicial and gulliable American public.

 

[Machiavelli]

I find this discussion about whether Mignini ever actually used the term "Satanism" to be a bit pointless. The fact that Mignini described the killing to be a sexual and sacrificial rite to be associated with Halloween and All Saints Day which is to celebrate the Dead kind of says it all.

He disn't say this.

It's now what you read in the document translated by Kaosium.

 

[Ampulla of Vater]

Americans are in average xenophobic, as well as presumptuons and arrogant, against everyone.
Americans are simply racist and prejudicial in average, full stop, and they are not fully conscious of being so. They also massively look like extreme simpletons in their understanding of cultures, and of political, antropological and social phenomenons.

It does not mean that Italians are necessarily better human beings. They have their degree of racism, they are partly fascist and mafious. They can have the worse quality around (albeit they tend to keep a style different from Amaricans).
But bad qualities of Italians do not change the extraordinary degree of stupidity and arrogance demonstrated by US Americans. Actually the surprising element to me was the degree of falsehood and bias spread by the US media.
The US coverage of the case was, whether you like it or not, a mass of disgusting defamatory crap the networks made up to sell their story to the prejudicial and gulliable American public.

Oh, and the Italian media were saints. Puh-leez.

 

[Machiavelli]

(...)
To Mignini at trial this was a sex game gone wrong. Massei concluded that it was Rudy's lust and Rudy's alone which caused this crime.
(...)

But it's just false.

Massei convicted Knox and Sollecito of sexual violence.

Never spoke about Rudy's lust as opposed to Knox and Sollecito's indifference.
Never spove about something that Guede did "alone"; he did not even have an opportunity to be on the murder scene if it was for "Rudy alone", he was there only because of Knox, and the three were together because she let them in.

 

[Diocletus]

Americans are in average xenophobic, as well as presumptuons and arrogant, against everyone.
Americans are simply racist and prejudicial in average, full stop, and they are not fully conscious of being so. They also massively look like extreme simpletons in their understanding of cultures, and of political, antropological and social phenomenons.

Sounds like someone needs a nap.

 

[Ampulla of Vater]

Americans are in average xenophobic, as well as presumptuons and arrogant, against everyone.
Americans are simply racist and prejudicial in average, full stop, and they are not fully conscious of being so. They also massively look like extreme simpletons in their understanding of cultures, and of political, antropological and social phenomenons.

It does not mean that Italians are necessarily better human beings. They have their degree of racism, they are partly fascist and mafious. They can have the worse quality around (albeit they tend to keep a style different from Amaricans).
But bad qualities of Italians do not change the extraordinary degree of stupidity and arrogance demonstrated by US Americans. Actually the surprising element to me was the degree of falsehood and bias spread by the US media.
The US coverage of the case was, whether you like it or not, a mass of disgusting defamatory crap the networks made up to sell their story to the prejudicial and gulliable American public.

It is very different between the U.S. and Italy. Some things are better in the U.S. and some things are better in Italy. Personally, I love Italy, maybe even more than the U.S. but that might be because it is different and people tend to like a change.

I think you are revealing what kind of person you are to lump all Americans or all Italians into broad generalizations. There are crappy Americans and there are crappy Italians, just as there are crappy Brits and crappy Asians. There are good people all over the world too. You need some rose-colored glasses me thinks.

 

[Diocletus]

But it's just false.

Massei convicted Knox and Sollecito of sexual violence.

Never spoke about Rudy's lust as opposed to Knox and Sollecito's indifference.
Never spove about something that Guede did "alone"; he did not even have an opportunity to be on the murder scene if it was for "Rudy alone", he was there only because of Knox, and the three were together because she let them in.

Who cares what Massei dreamed? He's another pervert.

 

[Machiavelli]

Oh, and the Italian media were saints. Puh-leez.

Nothing comparable.

Did you see the recent Porta a Porta talk show? Nothing special, but at least it was not a crying-Knox-Mellas show with a journalists putting them four sugar-coated questions.