Nordic countries may finally ban circumcision.

[Tsukasa Buddha]

The problem is that some people would prefer keeping the government out of their Doctors' office.

"Why is their evaluation of the evidence less acceptable than the AAP's which you keep producing?" The REAL point of the matter is that you are legislating away anyone's right to choose, which is more "acceptable" and which works best for their family.

LOL no. I am sure you must understand by now that the other side (and legal and medical bodies, btw) believes the right to choose that exists is the individual's, and legislation is to protect their right to bodily integrity.

Or as you might call it, authoritarianism.

 

[Ryokan]

Yeah, it's a bit strange.

In a supposedly non-authoritorian country, the choice would be made for me and there is nothing I could do about it.

In a supposedly authoritorian country, I get to choose for myself whether to have this surgery done on me or not.

Up is down, in is out.

 

[The Big Dog]

Yeah, it's a bit strange.

In a supposedly non-authoritorian country, the choice would be made for me and there is nothing I could do about it.

In a supposedly authoritorian country, I get to choose for myself whether to have this surgery done on me or not.

Up is down, in is out.

Nothing strange about it

In a non-authoritorian country, the parent can consult with their medical health care provider and make a fully informed decision.

In the authoritarian country, the choice would be made for the parents and there is nothing they could do about it.

Up is up, out is out

 

[Rat]

In a non-authoritorian country, the parent can consult with their medical health care provider and make a fully informed decision.

In the authoritarian country, the choice would be made for the parents and there is nothing they could do about it.

In an authoritarian country, the parent can impose their choices on their children.

 

[Ryokan]

I'm afraid up is still down, because in your non-authoritarian country, medical assosiacions make recommendations to their governments, based on their medical knowledge and experitise, and the government does nothing about it. "No, mister medical doctors, experts on the field whose knowledge we have to rely on in this case, we can't have us politicians butting into medicine, that would be authoritorian. So we'll won't do anything that you recommend."

And I get parts of my penis chopped of and have to live with that, without having a say.

I think your use of the words authoritarian and anti-authoritarian stems more from your political leanings, whatever they are, and actually hurt your case debating this subject. A medical organization recommending something to the government, and the government following up on it, is not just authoritorian in anyway, I'm also sure it happens in the USA on almost a daily basis without any controversy.

On the other hand, it's in the USA we see basic health and medical issues become Big Issues become battle ground of opinions and politicians meddling ever so often. If your stance continues to be that this one issue in Europe makes us authoritarian, then you don't even have one leg to stand on.

 

[The Big Dog]

Folks lets define terms.

Authoritarian governments pass laws to ban things, and interfere with the Family relationship, and the right to seek medical advice regarding such decisions.

 

[Rat]

Folks lets define terms.

Authoritarian governments pass laws to ban things, and interfere with the Family relationship, and the right to seek medical advice regarding such decisions.

That is certainly an idiosyncratic definition of authoritarianism, and I can easily see why you would choose it.

 

[Ryokan]

That's the worst definition I've seen. Under your definition, every nation state on Earth is autharitorian.

I would suggest leaving the terms. They don't help you at all.

 

[The Big Dog]

In an authoritarian country, the parent can impose their choices on their children.

So.... hmmmmm.... historical example where that the parent could not do that.....

Sparta?

 

[Ryokan]

So.... hmmmmm.... historical example where that the parent could not do that.....

Sparta?

It has become less and less so in the West in modern times. We're still working on getting it right, as this thread proves.

 

[The Big Dog]

It has become less and less so in the West in modern times. We're still working on getting it right, as this thread proves.

You might want to take a gander at article 8 of the euo convention on human rights.

 

[rustypouch]

That's the worst definition I've seen. Under your definition, every nation state on Earth is autharitorian.

I would suggest leaving the terms. They don't help you at all.

Exactly. I can't cut off my kids' ears, or have their feet bound, or tattoo them.

Authoritarians are keeping me down.

 

[Ryokan]

The right to privacy? Yes, we're working very hard to bolster that rights these days, as a reaction to knowing how much a certain 'non-authoritarian' country spies on us.

But why bring that up?

 

[Baylor]

edit; Ryokan's post suffices.

 

[Baylor]

The problem is that some people would prefer keeping the government out of their Doctors' office.

I know. People always prefer non-licensed doctors. If I need heart surgery, instead of having an authoritarian, government-licensed doctor operate on me, I look for doctors I can trust on craigslist.

 

[jdp]

If the relavent medical organizations such as the KNGM comes to the objective conclusion that a procedure is more harmful than not in the routine case and that a policy of deterance with the eventual goal of prohibition is important for society, why should the legislature not work to implement that policy?

You realize that is begging the question, right?

I have to say that I don't see how. What have I assumed that I need to prove? The relevant medical organizations in those countries have come to the conclusion that the procedure is more harmful than not in the routine case. The fact that they have reached that conclusion is not in dispute is it? It's part of what started this thread. And if that is true (which it is) then why shouldn't the government act on that recommendation legislatively?

By the way, this thread is not about FGM, of course, particularly as the medical, physical, and (presumably) religious considerations differ wildly. You might want to take that up with darat, he posted pro-FGM article(s) earlier.

No not directly but it is one of many procedures that is prohibited by tyrannical governments and I am trying to understand why we (you and I) tolerate that but you would not allow equal protection for boys? In fact it is also illegal in many locations to tattoo or ritually scar your child in most western countries too, is this tyrannical government overreach?

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

I know. People always prefer non-licensed doctors. If I need heart surgery, instead of having an authoritarian, government-licensed doctor operate on me, I look for doctors I can trust on craigslist.

That's where I found the doctor that fixed my child's UTIs with crystals, prayer, and magnets. Human Rights Nazis need to butt out of private medical decisions.

 

[The Big Dog]

The right to privacy? Yes, we're working very hard to bolster that rights these days, as a reaction to knowing how much a certain 'non-authoritarian' country spies on us.

But why bring that up?

Lolz, just a few more words and you would have gotten to private and family life

Right to family life.... Odd that you missed those pertinent words.

 

[The Big Dog]

That's where I found the doctor that fixed my child's UTIs with crystals, prayer, and magnets. Human Rights Nazis need to butt out of private medical decisions.

You might have to when anti-biotic resistant uti take over.

Oh it's easily treatable.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Folks lets define terms.

Authoritarian governments pass laws to ban things, and interfere with the Family relationship, and the right to seek medical advice regarding such decisions.

'And only one for birthday presents, you know. There's glory for you!'
'I don't know what you mean by "glory",' Alice said.
Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. 'Of course you don't — till I tell you. I meant "there's a nice knock-down argument for you!"'
'But "glory" doesn't mean "a nice knock-down argument",' Alice objected.
'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'