Continuation Part Six: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Chris_Halkides]

The tall trees of Oregon

The University of Oregon was listed as among the top 50 programs in journalism in one such list. Go Ducks!

U of O was number 34 on this list of best master's in journalism and communications. It has traditionally been strong in the area of molecular biology as well.

 

[charlatan]

MY idea is that Migi talked about a ritual murder. Your vocabulary lesson only convinces me of your desperation to deny what is obvious to everybody else. You can however, keep digging. I can see by your "flippant-nursery-schoolgirl" comment that my argument is having an impact. This encourages me to continue. I will just have to try harder.

Mach's vocabulary lesson only shows that the word 'ritual' isn't used any differently in Italian than it is in English. Context matters. While my morning coffee ritual may not sound very occult or sinister, a murder ritual certainly does! What Mignini was getting at was obvious to the press, various authors, at least one judge, and the generic public. This is why he's spent years trying unsuccessfully to walk it back.

 

[acbytesla]

It's in her demeanor, Rose. Check the file.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9512235&postcount=11906

I have no problem with Amanda being "sexually attracted to Meredith" Meredith was hot. That said, there isn't any evidence of this attraction. But There is a huge leap between being sexually attracted to someone and killing them.

 

[acbytesla]

U of O was number 34 on this list of best master's in journalism and communications. It has traditionally been strong in the area of molecular biology as well.

The Ducks are going to drown in Lake Washington come Saturday.

 

[codyjuneau]

In the American media.
It's a bit less successful in Italy, where the latest Spezi's book wasn't even published.

In Italy, judicial organs can be rather vulnerable to defamation campaigns since, normally, magistrates are not allowed to release declarations to the press about open cases. They can be allowed to release an interview but that requires an authorizaiton. In other words they are not free to speak.

Anyway, any person or any institution is potentially a victim of a defamation campaign and may be just impossible to counter the "representaion" that the media is giving. This is the core of the whole issue. And this is the reason for my actual interest in this case.

.
Moi aussi. Raffaele and Amanda were victims of a vicious and sinister defamation campaign, perpetrated by Mignini, and abetted by his minions, which may yet be impossible to counter.
.

 

[Bill Williams]

Seems you have run out of ideas.
I wait for the moment when you can see you lost and you don't attempt to use any argument any more; now I anticipate you turn to the "flippant-nursery-schoolgirl" mode and tell us some pun, to show us that you can still ring-around-the-rosey clapping your hands and he is the bad guy....

MY idea is that Migi talked about a ritual murder. Your vocabulary lesson only convinces me of your desperation to deny what is obvious to everybody else. You can however, keep digging. I can see by your "flippant-nursery-schoolgirl" comment that my argument is having an impact. This encourages me to continue. I will just have to try harder.

Yikes. We've just watched the second Star Trek film.

Spock says, "I see by you switching to a personal attack that you've conceded the argument to me."

RoseM.... are you Mr. Spock? You're using the same devastating logic against Machiavelli 1. Mr. Spock would know what "riti" means.

 

[Bill Williams]

Mach's vocabulary lesson only shows that the word 'ritual' isn't used any differently in Italian than it is in English. Context matters. While my morning coffee ritual may not sound very occult or sinister, a murder ritual certainly does! What Mignini was getting at was obvious to the press, various authors, at least one judge, and the generic public. This is why he's spent years trying unsuccessfully to walk it back.

.... and if you believe Barbie Nadeau, why co-prosecutor Manuela Comodi threatened to quit if Mignini went to trial with it.

 

[Bill Williams]

October 19 2008 Il Tempo newspaper reported that the prosecutor, “honorable” judge and lead investigator, Giuliano Mignini, addressed the court:

“The murder was premeditated, and was in addition a ‘rite’ celebrated on the occasion of the night of Hallowe’en. A sexual and, sacrificial rite … In the intention of the organisers, the rite should have occurred 24 hours earlier” – on Hallowe’en itself – “but on account of a dinner at the house of horrors, organised by Meredith and, Amanda’s Italian flatmates, it was postponed, for one day. The presumed assassins contented themselves with the evening of 1 November to perform their do-it-yourself rite, when, for some hours it would again be the night of All Saints.”

 

[Mary_H]

Mach's vocabulary lesson only shows that the word 'ritual' isn't used any differently in Italian than it is in English. Context matters. While my morning coffee ritual may not sound very occult or sinister, a murder ritual certainly does! What Mignini was getting at was obvious to the press, various authors, at least one judge, and the generic public. This is why he's spent years trying unsuccessfully to walk it back.

Excellent post, charlatan. Very insightful.

 

[Antony]

Apparently Harry Rag was already a pro guilt campaigner on another case before the Amanda Knox case happened. Just try doing a search on these names.

Ian Stephens

Starryian

Starryian007

This guy has used scores of user names and sometimes pretends to be an aristocratic female poster called Ghislane.

Interesting. I came across "Ghislane" on a comments section Time.com. "She" spent most of her posts verbally abusing those who supported AK and RS, amid expressing certainties based on her belief in the authority of the Massei Report. During the "discussion" it became very obvious that "she" had a very shallow understanding of what Massei actually says.

 

[Antony]

Interesting.

If all this is accurate, are we to take it that he does this out of some warped "altruism"?

Or is someone paying him for his time and effort?

One of the mysteries of this whole scandal is how so many people apparently without a personal motive, are prepared to spend so much time backing up such obviously corrupt officials and official processes.

 

[acbytesla]

October 19 2008 Il Tempo newspaper reported that the prosecutor, “honorable” judge and lead investigator, Giuliano Mignini, addressed the court:

“The murder was premeditated, and was in addition a ‘rite’ celebrated on the occasion of the night of Hallowe’en. A sexual and, sacrificial rite … In the intention of the organisers, the rite should have occurred 24 hours earlier” – on Hallowe’en itself – “but on account of a dinner at the house of horrors, organised by Meredith and, Amanda’s Italian flatmates, it was postponed, for one day. The presumed assassins contented themselves with the evening of 1 November to perform their do-it-yourself rite, when, for some hours it would again be the night of All Saints.”

NAILED IT!!!!


It is ridiculous to watch Machiavelli try and say that Mignini WASN'T saying 5 years ago what the whole world knew what he was saying. In fact, it is really weird. The only thing we can acknowledge is that Mignini, at least publicly didn't use the term "satanic". Never the less, the statement above clearly infers that.

What I don't get, is Machiavelli. Why does he defend this scumbag so fervently? Watching him try and distance Mignini not only from the Kercher case but the countless people that Machiavelli ruined in the MOF case? It's like Mach doesn't believe in principles at all, but the individuals only. It's as if the Mignini has a cult like following and Mach is a member of the congregation.

 

[e740JPH]

AC,
I think we all make the assumption that we are all driven by dull day-today-moral parameters. We like the intellectual sparring with Machiavelli, but we at times forget he is driven by far different moral priorities. Unfortunately, even the most intelligent can thus be driven into the realm of hubris.

Clearly, the man/woman has a very capable brain. Unfortunately, mental capability alone does not define your morality, however, it can easily become self-indulgent sophistry. Some folks with a good brain just like to show it off, even if it is off topic.

Maybe we should be more selective about the bait we are willing to take?

On a different note, should you not be in bed .

 

[acbytesla]

AC,
I think we all make the assumption that we are all driven by dull day-today-moral parameters. We like the intellectual sparring with Machiavelli, but we at times forget he is driven by far different moral priorities. Unfortunately, even the most intelligent can thus be driven into the realm of hubris.

Clearly, the man/woman has a very capable brain. Unfortunately, mental capability alone does not define your morality, however, it can easily become self-indulgent sophistry. Some folks with a good brain just like to show it off, even if it is off topic.

Maybe we should be more selective about the bait we are willing to take?

On a different note, should you not be in bed .

I agree with everything you are saying. Even the part about me being in bed, but I'm cursed with insomnia.

As for Mach, maybe he is just baiting the hook and playing his own little intellectual game to hone his debating skills. That certainly wouldn't surprise me at all.

I've always taken notice that this very skilled sophist goes by the moniker Machiavelli. The real Niccolo Machiavelli in "the Prince" expressed virtually the same kind of morality that our Mach displays. That a ruler must be concerned not only with reputation, but also must be positively willing to act immorally when needed. As a political scientist, Machiavelli emphasized the occasional need for the methodical exercise of brute force and/or deceit.

So like his namesake, our Mach's morality is not a static thing but something that must be sacrificed for both appearances and political stability.

 

[e740JPH]

Which then leaves us all with the uncomfortable question: What role does morality play in this scenario.

It seems to this simple minded old man that, once you abandon morality, you also abandon justice. You fall into the trap that 'anything goes' and soon thereafter you will find yourself without any reference points in your life. Then What?

 

[acbytesla]

Which then leaves us all with the uncomfortable question: What role does morality play in this scenario.

It seems to this simple minded old man that, once you abandon morality, you also abandon justice. You fall into the trap that 'anything goes' and soon thereafter you will find yourself without any reference points in your life. Then What?

Aaaaaah.....the slippery slope. What's hard to deny that there are times when it is necessary to bend the rules. It is easy to stand in an ivory tower and demand that we should be pure. It's another to follow that line for a lifetime. But the slope is slippery, and once we have been corrupted, it is easier to allow corrupting influence.

I don't think there is anyone who is totally pure, but some are willing to abandon morality far too quickly. That the ends justifies the means, Have you ever noticed for example, that in practice a left wing authoritarian regime is virtually identical to a right wing authoritarian regime? That is because in both instances, the humans abandoned their doctrine for practicality.

 

[e740JPH]

Aaaaaah.....the slippery slope. What's hard to deny that there are times when it is necessary to bend the rules. It is easy to stand in an ivory tower and demand that we should be pure. It's another to follow that line for a lifetime. But the slope is slippery, and once we have been corrupted, it is easier to allow corrupting influence.

I don't think there is anyone who is totally pure, but some are willing to abandon morality far too quickly. That the ends justifies the means, Have you ever noticed for example, that in practice a left wing authoritarian regime is virtually identical to a right wing authoritarian regime? That is because in both instances, the humans abandoned their doctrine for practicality.

Agreed. I think splitting the world into 'right wing' vs 'left wing' has been the bane of the last century.

 

[Skind]

I hope one day you become humble enough to read what is written; and maybe understand - something to which btw even Mary H agreed to, that is it is apparent tha Knox did not have any serious sleep deprivation syndrome - just to mention even only the one element that decide you mention, the handwriting: if you have a serious sleep deprivation syndrome, this shows up in your handwriting, because affects fine movements of the hand.

And as I - someone who has worked with people with sleep deprivation in a clinical setting - pointed out, Knox's writing was very poor given her educational background, contained all the signs and symptoms of sleep deprivation that any reasonable person would expect, and is visibily poor compared to all known previous samples of her writing.

I have no idea what you were expecting her writing to look like, but it looks exactly like you would expect it to look like if she was sleep deprived. The I's are inconsistent, she forgets to dot quite a few i's and j's, her t's are all over the place, her grammer is poor, her sentences are fragmented, the spacing is poor left to right and top to bottom.

Knox has fairly neat writing by the standards of our day, her sleep deprived writing looks exactly as you would expect it to. My writing is horrible, my sleep deprived writing would be barely legible.

I'm guessing you're expecting it to look like a spider crawled across a page, rather silly given what Knox's writing normally looks like.

I have no idea where you're getting the 'serious sleep deprived syndrome' from - exactly which poster claimed Knox had a syndrome as opposed to being merely sleep deprived?

 

[acbytesla]

Agreed. I think splitting the world into 'right wing' vs 'left wing' has been the bane of the last century.

Agreed, I go back to Jefferson who didn't want political parties. He saw them as a detriment to governing. That the people would become entrenched with "their side" as opposed to addressing each individual issue separately.

Given today's environment in our nation's capital, TJ definitely had a point.

 

[Grinder]

Without becoming part of this grand debate, I would like to point people back to the first days. Reports came out in the british tabs about consensual sex and the possibility/probability that Meredith had met her killer the night before at a Halloween party. One paper referred to Meredith as a party girl, unfortunately one I can't find.

About day three, before the arrest, the stories started changing and the satanic, rite, sex game and all those began taking over. The PLE were leaking like sieves all sorts of details about the case including specifics about what the kids said or wrote in custody.

Given what we have learned about Napoleoni and her team, it wouldn't surprise me that they were the source of some of the leaks including the theories of what happened.

I have believed and still do that some of the movement about what happened regarding the sex was influenced by the british tab press. The Kerchers were understandably upset by some of the reports in their tabs and John may were have been able to influence coverage. The reports changed from a date to a rape.

I have no ability to parse Italian and I don't know how widely interpreted the word riti can be.

Personally, I don't see the value in this bashing session with Mach. I think the focus needs to be on the case and not the alleged aberrations of Mignini.

The defense should concentrate on the interrogation, the blobs called foot prints, the defective DNA work and other key pieces of "hard" circumstantial evidence.

It would be my choice to save the bashing of the Italians until after Amanda and Raf are found not guilty at some level, hopefully in Italy. By that I certainly don't mean specific criticisms of police work e.g. collection of evidence.

OT - I'm not happy with the bills I'm being sent by some of you for psychological analysis.