Continuation Part Six: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[tsig]

Randy I believe this answer to be untrue. Perhaps the OZ cops are corrupt or morons too.

If you have any evidence that I was ever a cop or in Australia please present it because then I must have lived a more interesting life than I remember.

Implying other posters are morons. can lead to

 

[Matthew Best]

If you have any evidence that I was ever a cop or in Australia please present it because then I must have lived a more interesting life than I remember.

Implying other posters are morons. can lead to

I'm confused. You've just said you weren't a cop so how can suggesting that Australian cops are morons be referring to you (or any other poster)?

 

[Bill Williams]

Grinder - if I have either said or implied that Machiavelli and Andrea Vogt are the same person I would be wrong, and would apologize.

What difference would it make? I think it's clear that both Machiavelli as an online phenomenon and Andrea Vogt not only support Mr. Mignini, but also pass on his views of the facts as well as his interpretations of law.

Your mileage may vary, but if true that would destroy Ms. Vogt's claims as a journalist. She would be a PR agent.

 

[Matthew Best]

Anyway, back on a more interesting topic, the trial.

How long did this morning's hearing last? It seemed to be all over remarkably quickly. Are they lazy over there in Italy as well as corrupt and moronic?

 

[Bill Williams]

Grinder - I have no doubt that Andrea Vogt believes the police made their case. My suspicion is that Andrea does not report on it, she actually promotes it. Witness her blog where she keeps the focus on Amanda Knox, Amanda Knox, Amanda Knox. She is promoting this vendetta against Knox as if she's responsible for Mignini's woes in misprosecuting this case. (Witness Machiavelli's theory that Knox could choose not to sleep, thus be rested and resistant to "suggestion" at interrogation. )

 

[Grinder]

Grinder - if I have either said or implied that Machiavelli and Andrea Vogt are the same person I would be wrong, and would apologize.

What difference would it make? I think it's clear that both Machiavelli as an online phenomenon and Andrea Vogt not only support Mr. Mignini, but also pass on his views of the facts as well as his interpretations of law.

Your mileage may vary, but if true that would destroy Ms. Vogt's claims as a journalist. She would be a PR agent.

You believe that Amanda is innocent beyond a shadow of a doubt. Therefore Vogt believing in the prosecution case and interpretations of laws makes her a poor journalist. However, CD taking the FOA stand and repeating their talking points causes you no stress because CD is on the right side of the case.

While I firmly believe that the ILE did not make their case, I think that in law the prosecution has won most of the legal technical battles as well as the war at the ISC.

I think that Vogt destroyed her standing much more by interviewing Laura Wray as a DNA expert than by believing the prosecution case.

I don't see why pounding on this possible relationship of Vogt and Mach is helpful and significant.

ETA - Does CD report or promote? Do you have a problem with her?

 

[snook1]

Anyway, back on a more interesting topic, the trial.

How long did this morning's hearing last? It seemed to be all over remarkably quickly. Are they lazy over there in Italy as well as corrupt and moronic?

The hearing lasted almost 1,5 hour.

 

[Matthew Best]

The hearing lasted almost 1,5 hour.

No wonder they have a problem with not delivering timely justice.

 

[Bill Williams]

I have no problem with Candace Dempsey at all. She's always been transparent as to what she's about. Vogt ID's herself as an unbiased journalist who merely reports from the courthouse. I doubt that's the case.

 

[Bill Williams]

About you doubting that a relationship between Mach and Vogt is significant, I told you your mileage would vary@

 

[snook1]

No wonder they have a problem with not delivering timely justice.

I know, right? This is pretty bad. Imagine if Amanda and Raffaele were still in prison. They would have to wait for the next hearing whole month.

It's interesting though that other dates were scrapped. I'm trying not to analyze what is in the judge's minds, but it's definitely interesting. They are waiting for the knife testing. PGP are saying that the outcome doesn't really matter, beacuse the judge now has all the elements to make a judgement.

I just realized that the verdict may come very soon. Maybe even in November.

 

[Bill Williams]

Grinder - at base a trial process is an uneven playing field. Andrea Vogt does more than simply believe that Mignini got it right with mixed-blood, a staged break in, and that silly kitchen knife. She promotes it. She promotes that Knox’s so called inconsistencies and weird behaviour is key to a so-called sex game gone wrong.

it matters little that the Mignini led prosecution failed to demonstrate any of this. She still promotes Mignini as if he got it right first time..

CD's task is different, she at least acts like a journalist, including those months when she still thought the pair guilty, but also reported on the silliness of the prosecution's tactics.

 

[katy_did]

Same here. Mach will definitely try to do what he can in order to assure people it was a good hearing for the prosecution. Was it, though? It was a mess, a waste of time and hopefully it will be even worse for them on NOV 6th (hoping for some early leaks).

From what it looks like at the moment, it seems that they will check if the item 36I is attributable to Meredith or Guede and not to anyone else. I hate the fact that people are saying it will be a crucial hearing if it turnes out to be Meredith's or Guede's and not so crucial if not.

I've heard Maresca saying that but then of course, he would (as he pedals backwards furiously). How can it be crucial only if the test is positive - does that mean that if it's Meredith or Guede's DNA then Amanda and Raffaele are definitely, definitely guilty, but if it's not then they're only definitely guilty? If that were the case there'd be no point doing the test at all.

I reckon these are the three ways it could go: if Meredith's DNA, the court will say it's probably the murder weapon; if Guede's, they'll say it 'clarifies their subjective positions' and that Guede probably held it, not Amanda; and if it's negative, it's probably not the murder weapon. So if there's nothing on it or it's unidentified or unclear - much the more likely outcome - that would most likely be the end of the knife.

 

[Kaosium]

Randy I believe this answer to be untrue. Perhaps the OZ cops are corrupt or morons too.

Randy, I suspect you're thinking of someone else who once said he worked with cops in Oz. Incidentally one thing he did say about cops in Oz was something regarding a bit of a stuff-up they had with their DNA lab.

 

[snook1]

"We are going to examine something we do not even know if it exists" Judge Alessandro Nencini said according to the Italian news agency ANSA. "If it is not found or it has been kept in a way that this test cannot be carried out, the experts must tell us immediately."The sample on the knife I 36 will be collected from lab of Conte Vecchiotti and tested by 31st october.
If the DNA trace can be tested, a report on the findings must be filed by Oct. 31. The next court hearing is set for Nov. 6.
Knox, who spent four years in an Italian prison, has said she will not return to Italy for the trial. One of her lawyers, Luciano Ghirga, said he exchanges text messages with Knox. He also said he was not worried by the new DNA tests. "We are certain that they are not organic traces, but just starch cells," Ghirga said."

I do hope we will get some good news soon.

 

[snook1]

I reckon these are the three ways it could go: if Meredith's DNA, the court will say it's probably the murder weapon; if Guede's, they'll say it 'clarifies their subjective positions' and that Guede probably held it, not Amanda; and if it's negative, it's probably not the murder weapon. So if there's nothing on it or it's unidentified or unclear - much the more likely outcome - that would most likely be the end of the knife.

I think the absolutely horrible scenario would be if there is Guede's DNA found on the knife. Obviously, as Ghirga says, it's impossible to find anything new on the knife and it will be something non organic, but Guede's DNA would be indeed a game over. Sadly for PGP, it won't happen.

Maresca sounds like he is convinced that even without a positive result (for the prosecution) on the DNA test, the court will still convict them.

 

[yimyammer]

One thing is certain after this morning's hearing that despite whatever bribe Aviello has being offered by the lying squad and the other prisoner Alessi despite being shunned by society and considered the dregs of society and are confined to prison for the safety of society they still have more honour than the Perugia police Mignini Stefanoni and Comodi and the liars they put on the stand.The two convicted prisoners came to court took the oath and told the truth something that none of the former did,it sure does say something about calibar of people in power in Perugia

Aviello told the truth? How can we conclude this if he(she?) said his (her?) brother murdered Meredith?

Is the any evidence that the brother had any connection to this crime?

Also, I've read people assert that Rafs dad bribed Aviello to lie on the stand, is there any evidence to support this assertion?

 

[Supernaut]

.
Perhaps the Kerchers should fire Maresca and hire the lawyer from the TV show that demonstrated the climb through the window. Then they could get him to sue Maresca for representing Mignini, instead of themselves. Also, they could get their new lawyer to petition for a re-investigation of the case by independent investigators.
.

As I remarked on IIP - they could use the services of John Q. Kelly

But he's already advising Raffaele Sollecito.

 

[yimyammer]

If the knife's (not the "murder knife" as the british tabs are reporting) material isn't from Meredith what does mean to you?

Do you have any links you can provide to these articles?

 

[Diocletus]

I think the absolutely horrible scenario would be if there is Guede's DNA found on the knife. Obviously, as Ghirga says, it's impossible to find anything new on the knife and it will be something non organic, but Guede's DNA would be indeed a game over. Sadly for PGP, it won't happen.

Maresca sounds like he is convinced that even without a positive result (for the prosecution) on the DNA test, the court will still convict them.

Well, I think that they did find a amplify a little bit of human DNA, in addition to find inorganic material, from 36i. So, I don't think that they will find "nothing" or that the analysis will be "negative."

I do think that there is a strong possibility that they won't be able to interpret the results of the analysis, because the DNA will turn out to be a bunch of partial and mixed profiles.

In the event that they do come up with a full profile, I can't imagine that it would be Guede, and it would be very bad for the defendants if it was. I also doubt that it would be Kercher, unless its the result of the same contamination that resulted in the 36b findings.

There's a somewhat greater likelihood that the DNA belongs to Sollecito (the knife owner) or Knox (the person to hold it last), but these possibilities I think are good for the defense because they further negate the "it was cleaned with bleach" argument.

The "partial and mixed" outcome that I am expecting would also negate the possibility of cleaning with bleach, and would raise the specter of contamination.