LDS

[Olowkow]

Bill Mariott is a prominent Mormon. He has my values with respect to business.

God and Gay Marriage: What Chick-fil-A Could Learn From Marriott

"This church helped me raise a family and has brought great joy and happiness to my life,” he told me. But that didn’t mean gay employees had any less status at Marriott. “We have to take care of our people, regardless of their sexual orientation or anything else,” he said. “We are an American Church. We have all the American values: the values of hard work, the values of integrity, the values of fairness and respect.” Marriott has both a deep faith and a deep understanding of his responsibility as a leader. Many of his shareholders, customers, and employees don’t belong to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Their values matter, too.

 

[Foster Zygote]

What if a business announced that they wouldn't serve Mormons, or that their dining room would have a "whites only" section? Would people be justified in choosing not to patronize said business? Would a university administration be justified in deciding not to sign a contract with said business?

People can be as openly bigoted as they want. But if others find their bigotry distasteful, then they have every right to choose not to do business with those people. Publicizing what others have said and refusing to do business with them is not harassment.

 

[halleyscomet]

The following article is just one of many:http://godfatherpolitics.com/12483/...-mean-loss-jobs-freedoms/#sZiGaistu4UCRuJj.99

I thought you avoided anti-Momron sites?

Protip:

The next time you google for a random article that vaguely matches the view you're espousing, take a quick look at some of the other articles on the site to make sure it isn't a classless partisan rag lacking even a passing acquaintance with reality.

Then again, the site you linked calls Mormons a cult, equating y'all with Jehovah's Witnesses:
What Does Robert Jeffress Have in Common with Mitt Romney?

No Protestant on Presidential Ballot – First Time in History of U.S.

Mitt Romney is a Mormon, which many people believe to be a cult and not part of the Christian church.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Can you imagine if the KKK had gone to a bakery owned by a black couple and requested a Ku Klux Klan-themed cake?

In this case, it's more like an African American couple went into a cake shop and were refused service by the Klan member owner.

 

[halleyscomet]

What if a business announced that they wouldn't serve Mormons, or that their dining room would have a "whites only" section? Would people be justified in choosing not to patronize said business? Would a university administration be justified in deciding not to sign a contract with said business?

People can be as openly bigoted as they want. But if others find their bigotry distasteful, then they have every right to choose not to do business with those people. Publicizing what others have said and refusing to do business with them is not harassment.

That's an unfair comparison.

A better comparison would be to ask if Janadele would patronize a restaurant that refused to HIRE Mormons, and whose owners officially supported legislation to deny state and federal recognition of Mormon marriages.

 

[desertgal]

Bill Mariott is a prominent Mormon. He has my values with respect to business.

God and Gay Marriage: What Chick-fil-A Could Learn From Marriott

In fairness to the LDS Church, I think it's safe to say Janadele's disgusting bigotry is not upheld by their entire membership. IOW, she doesn't speak for all Mormons. Fortunately for them.

 

[halleyscomet]

Anyone know if the site mentioned in this article includes Mormons?

 

[RandFan]

The following article is just one of many:
"If you are a business owner or work for a “gay friendly” company and you speak out against same-sex sex, there’s a good chance that your business will be harassed or as a prospective employee you might not get hired.

Reminds me of businesses who were racist or wouldn't serve Mormons. Many people thought interracial marriage was a perversion. Many people thought, and still think, polygamy and Mormonism are perversions.

1. So, the racists complained that they had a right to force blacks to the back of the bus and they didn't like blacks harassing them for it.
2. Anti-Mormons thought they had a right to discriminate against Mormons because of Mormon perversions.
3. Now the bigots complain when they are told that under some circumstances you cannot discriminate against gays and lesbians.

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.

I would add "to live in a nation where consenting adults are not judged by what they do in their bedrooms but by the content of their character". In the dystopian novels, 1984 and THX 1138 sex was heavily regulated. If caught you could be imprisoned and even tortured or killed. You could not simply fall in love with someone. That's the world for many gays and lesbians.

I have a dream that one day we will be free to be who we are and not what some prudish bigoted religious zealot says we should be.

 

[joobz]

This doesn’t count the service industries that work with the restaurant chain.
Let’s not forget the Oregon bakery that closed its doors because of harassment from homosexuals because the owners refused to make a cake for a same-sex wedding. Any other cake would have been fine. Can you imagine if the KKK had gone to a bakery owned by a black couple and requested a Ku Klux Klan-themed cake?

they closed their doors because they had a 50% drop in business. The bad publicity made them loose business.

The KKK analogy here is reversed.
Imaging if a black couple went to a KKK owned bakery and was turned away. That is more in line with the story being told.

A letter writer to the San Francisco Chronicle who supported Prop 8 was intimidated when Internet search engines were used “to find the letter writer’s small business, his Web site (which included the names of his children and dog), his phone number and his clients. And they posted that information in the ‘Comments’ section of SFGate.com — urging, in ugly language, retribution against the author’s business and its identified clients.”

I find this to be offensive and do not agree with this tactic.



But the rest seems to be reasonable approaches. And the tactics used are exactly the same ones used by anti-gay groups attacking homosexuals.

 

[RandFan]

In fairness to the LDS Church, I think it's safe to say Janadele's disgusting bigotry is not upheld by their entire membership. IOW, she doesn't speak for all Mormons. Fortunately for them.

Agreed, but many are bigoted. Enough that Salt Lake City has a huge underground of lost youth. Children who were disowned by their parents because the children were gay. These kids (mostly teenagers) are at risk youth. Many commit suicide or suffer violence on the street. Many if not most turn to prostitution to survive.

In the prodigal son, the son leaves home. In the real life Mormon version children are thrown away so they won't embarrass their bigoted parents. When I was a Mormon I believed that it was my duty not to judge people and to love everyone. Particularly those who were "the least among us". I don't remember any scripture that said such a duty did not pertain to gays and lesbians.

⁴² For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

⁴³ I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

⁴⁴ Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

Don't worry, there are plenty of scriptures to rationalize this one away. That's the hallmark of humanity, rationalization. Religious zealots are particularly good at picking and choosing which scriptures to follow and which to ignore.

Go ahead and hate your neighbor
go ahead and cheat a friend
Do it in the name of heaven
You can justify it in the end

It works like this, see, well yes, christ said, "though shalt love thy neighbor as thyself", however, if you read between the lines he wasn't talking about people who have icky kinds of sex. Duh! Those people you can despise and say ugly and bigoted things about.

 

[desertgal]

Agreed, but many are bigoted. Enough that Salt Lake City has a huge underground of lost youth. Children who were disowned by their parents because the children were gay. These kids (mostly teenagers) are at risk youth. Many commit suicide or suffer violence on the street. Many if not most turn to prostitution to survive.<snipped for brevity>

I agree, and I have experienced prejudice and bigotry from many Mormons myself. Absolutely. You can't live, as non-Mormon, in an almost exclusively (98%) Mormon enclave, and avoid it.

But I'm trying to be fair, too. Janadele is a very poor reflection of her church, yet, fortunately, there are those LDS members who lend some balance to the negative picture she represents. Ones who, like yourself when you were a member, try to love everyone and judge no one. I think we would both be remiss if we didn't say we've had that experience of some Mormons as well as the "prudish bigoted religious zealots" (excellent summation) like Janadele.

There's no bad without some good.

 

[Craig4]

They are reality. Living in ignorance of what is happening in law and the courts does not make the consequences go away.

What's the case law? It should say "someone or some institution" v. "someone or some institution". Like "Brown v. Board of Education" or "Miranda v. State of Arizona". You say this is happening in courts but courts in the US have something called the Real Case Rule which means they can't simple rule on a topic on their own whim. An aggrieved party has to take the other party to court. So, what is the case law that is perpetuating this gay agenda?

 

[Craig4]

The following article is just one of many:
"If you are a business owner or work for a “gay friendly” company and you speak out against same-sex sex, there’s a good chance that your business will be harassed or as a prospective employee you might not get hired... snip for brevity.
http://godfatherpolitics.com/12483/...-mean-loss-jobs-freedoms/#sZiGaistu4UCRuJj.99

None of this has to do with governments or courts except that last bit about the Air Force Master Sergeant. Yes, if you make unpopular public statements it's like the public will respond. I'm not sure if you've been to Oregon but in parts of that state if you refuse to bake a cake for a gay wedding, yes your bakery will be very unpopular.

In Orson Scott Card's case, considering that every time you turn the damn page in "Ender's Game" he's writing about children without any clothes on, his rants are just bizarre and come off as self loathing. I'm not surprised that he gets called on that.

 

[tsig]

What the hell is that mess all about?

The homos are gonna sex us all!!

 

[halleyscomet]

In Orson Scott Card's case, considering that every time you turn the damn page in "Ender's Game" he's writing about children without any clothes on, his rants are just bizarre and come off as self loathing. I'm not surprised that he gets called on that.

Orson Scott Card is a special case. You realize just HOW special when you read his love letter to Pedophilia, "Hamlet's Father."

In Orson Scott Card's version of this classic tale, Hamlet's father is a lousy king who sexually assaults a number of underage boys, turning them gay in the process. He gets away with this for AT LEAST 20 years, possibly longer. Even though he's murdered by one of his victims, the death is fairly quick. Even AFTER dying he gets to come back as a ghost and bully his son, the one boy he DIDN'T rape, into killing off his surviving victims, thus preserving the dead old pedophile's legacy. To cap it all off the death of Hamlet's father is blamed on Claudius, ensuring that the single surviving victim, Horatio, will be forced say nothing about what REALLY happened, or face execution for the treasonous act of murdering Hamlet's Father.

After all of this, Hamlet's father gets to spend eternity raping his own son.

The story isn't a condemnation of homosexuality as some critics assert, but a roaring love letter to pedophilia. It might as well have been titled "The Pedophile Triumphant" or "The Virtues of Molesting Little Boys."

Personally, I suspect the police would find a lot of very illegal material among his files if they ever raided Card's place. I also suspect "Hamlet's Father" is probably very popular among English speaking pedophiles.

 

[Belz...]

Jesus Christ is the Son, the Saviour, the Only Begotten...

Preaching is not evidence. Otherwise...

...Our Great Layer, the Great Brown Chicken, who laid this universe like a giant egg, and who will peck us all one by one, according to Its will said:

²⁶ BACKOOOOOOCK !

 

[Belz...]

Moi non plus! Vachement chouette! Merci.

Non mais, ça va bien faire !

 

[Belz...]

The following article is just one of many:
"If you are a business owner or work for a “gay friendly” company and you speak out against same-sex sex, there’s a good chance that your business will be harassed or as a prospective employee you might not get hired. You recall the attack on Chick-Fil-A because of statements that Dan Cathy, president and COO of Chick-Fil-A, made about homosexual marriage:
“It has been just over a year since Chicago Alderman Proco “Joe” Moreno and Mayor Rahm Emanuel first took a stand against the privately owned food chain Chick-Fil-A, due to the owner Dan Cathy’s Christian faith and unfavorable view of same-sex marriage.”

I snipped the rest of your hate speech.

Just let people live in peace. Your hypocrisy, speaking of harassment against your faith while you ramble on against people who have no say in their sexual tendencies, is disgusting.

And hilarious.

 

[Janadele]

... You claim that my life influences your relationship with "eternal law"....

Another of many false statements. Never have I claimed anything of the kind.

 

[halleyscomet]

Another of many false statements. Never have I claimed anything of the kind.

Why then do you care if non-Mormon homosexuals are legally allowed to marry each other?

What gives you the right to force your religion on others?