LDS

[Pixel42]

Rand, this is already happening... Kindergarden children are even being taught they can choose the gender they wish to be. Perhaps yourself and other posters here are not aware of the Radical Homosexual Agenda. Christian preachers have already been fined and gaoled for "discriminating" by teaching the word of God regarding homosexual activity. Adoption agencies have been legally forced to close for refusing to facilitate adoption of the children in their care to same sex couples. Bakers / shop keepers who refuse to provide wedding cakes and rainbow cakes for same sex celebrations, providers of other wedding services, providers of accommodations... have been taken to court, fined, and had their businesses closed. On the agenda is an attempt to force Christian Churches to preform same sex marriages or take the consequences of refusing to do so. These are the real agendas of the push for same sex marriage and just some examples of how law can be used under the guise of "discrimination".
But this is not the thread for further discussion on these matters.

Every child should be free to explore their sexuality as it develops and be able to express it in whatever way it naturally shows itself.

Discrimination is, rightly, against the law. Any organisation which discriminates against any class of people will, rightly, be prosecuted. Any organisation which refuse to stop discriminating for any reason (including the reason that they believe god wants them to discriminate) will have to close its doors if its owners do not want to end up in jail.

This is entirely right and proper. It is not a "Radical Homosexual Agenda", it's a "let's treat everybody with the respect they all deserve" agenda.

There is not so much love in the world that we can afford to actively try to prevent some of it. If there is a god who remotely resembles the loving god that decent religious people believe in then people like you are going to be in serious trouble with him.

 

[kellyb]

Yes I can do so,when time permits. But you must realise that this is not the topic of this thread.

I think "What Mormons believe about gays" is very much within the scope of this thread.

 

[Janadele]

The position of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on same sex attraction and homosexual activity has already been stated.

The Radical Homosexual Agenda, is not the subject of this thread.

 

[kellyb]

The position of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on same sex attraction and homosexual activity has already been stated.

The Radical Homosexual Agenda, is not the subject of this thread.

What Mormons (like yourself) believe about minority groups like gays and blacks is very much the topic of this thread right now.

But if you want to say "I think maybe I was misinformed" (or something to that effect) we'll accept that.

eta:
I'll make this easier; just back up this one for now:

Christian preachers have already been fined and gaoled for "discriminating" by teaching the word of God regarding homosexual activity.

 

[Janadele]

Pixel42. From your comments it seems you are already aware of the reality of the content of my post 7292 above, and that you support this immorality and oppression of Christian beliefs and teachings. Do not think that true Christians will buckle under the attacks of Lucifer whether the law supports them or not. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints will never perform the Sacrament of Marriage for same sex couples, nor will it's adoption agencies ever arrange for the adoption of children to same sex couples. Nor teach that homosexual activity is acceptable to God. True Christians will not be forced to support and facilitate the activities of Satan.

 

[Amazer]

Pixel42. From your comments it seems you are already aware of the reality of the content of my post 7292 above, and that you support this immorality and oppression of Christian beliefs and teachings. Do not think that true Christians will buckle under the attacks of Lucifer whether the law supports them or not. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints will never perform the Sacrament of Marriage for same sex couples, nor will it's adoption agencies ever arrange for the adoption of children to same sex couples. Nor teach that homosexual activity is acceptable to God. True Christians will not be forced to support and facilitate the activities of Satan.

I think the above perfectly illustrates why separation of church and state is such a good idea.

 

[Pixel42]

Pixel42. From your comments it seems you are already aware of the reality of the content of my post 7292 above, and that you support this immorality and oppression of Christian beliefs and teachings. Do not think that true Christians will buckle under the attacks of Lucifer whether the law supports them or not. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints will never perform the Sacrament of Marriage for same sex couples, nor will it's adoption agencies ever arrange for the adoption of children to same sex couples. Nor teach that homosexual activity is acceptable to God. True Christians will not be forced to support and facilitate the activities of Satan.

If stopping hate-filled bigots from unfairly discriminating against certain groups is "oppression of Christian beliefs and teachings" then yes, I do support the oppression of certain Christian beliefs and teachings. And so, curiously enough, do quite a lot of Christians.

 

[kellyb]

Pixel42. From your comments it seems you are already aware of the reality of the content of my post 7292 above, and that you support this immorality and oppression of Christian beliefs and teachings. Do not think that true Christians will buckle under the attacks of Lucifer whether the law supports them or not. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints will never perform the Sacrament of Marriage for same sex couples, nor will it's adoption agencies ever arrange for the adoption of children to same sex couples. Nor teach that homosexual activity is acceptable to God. True Christians will not be forced to support and facilitate the activities of Satan.

We atheists tend to begrudgingly support your right raise children in bigotry when it comes to what you do in your own homes and churches.

Regarding LDS businesses (is the adoption agency a business?), who else besides gays do you feel entitled to discriminate against? Non-Mormon Christians? Ethnic minorities? Atheists? Or is it just gay people?

 

[Filippo Lippi]

We atheists tend to begrudgingly support your right raise children in bigotry when it comes to what you do in your own homes and churches.

This atheist thinks such indoctrination should be a crime

 

[kellyb]

This atheist thinks such indoctrination should be a crime

I understand, but I'm pretty sure if you did a poll, most people would agree that there's no way out of it?

Once you start passing laws one way (banning bigotry in homes and churches) you're apt to see (even more) pushes to revert to theocracy and making it illegal to tell your own kids it's ok to be gay, or atheist, etc.

 

[pakeha]

...I am well acquainted with problems in LDS historicity, having read extensively in anti-LDS literature--from the illegal sacking of the Nauvoo Expositor to the current claims that Joseph Smith's BA is a fraud based on an analysis of some recovered papyrus he used in the claimed translation that makes no mention whatever of Abraham. The critics posit that circumstance casts doubt on the authenticity of the BoM itself and of Joseph Smith's claim to be a prophet.

I think many LDS are disturbed by the BA development, as well as by DNA findings involving "Lamanites." You (and others) seek a direct, forthright answer from me re. the BA. My answer is simply this: I don't know. To my knowledge, the Church has not issued a statement re. the BA, and I am not inclined to second-guess the Church.

You may think my answer is a dodge; it is not. Having spent a long lifetime in the Church, and having witnessed the power of the priesthood to work modern-day miracles, I will remain a faithful, obedient member. You will consider that irrational in light of evidence that has surfaced. But you haven't lived the life I have lived; you haven't had the spiritual experiences I have had; you haven't seen the power of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ to change lives in the way I have. ...

So at the end of the day, you're willing to quibble over definitions, but utterly unwilling to address the cold-blooded fraud at the base of the 'miracles' that form part of your life.

Again I ask- what value does a spiritual experience have if it's based on a hoax?
Is deliberately fooling yourself really worth living with 'magic'?
I say deliberately with good cause.
No one who sees the evidence for the cruel scam of the BoA can possibly imagine there is any revelation involved in its propagation, that its anything but a con.

 

[Pixel42]

This atheist thinks such indoctrination should be a crime

Indoctrinating children into a set of beliefs when they are too young to consider them rationally can place them into a mental straitjacket from which they may never be able to escape (that's certainly the intention, though it doesn't always work) but I see no way to legislate against it which doesn't have an even worse down side.

Possibly more could be done to ensure that, for example, the home schooled are exposed to alternative beliefs and opinions in their formative years.

 

[Belz...]

Stars... Planets... and other Heavenly signs... always fascinating to we earthbound mortals

What does this have to do with LDS ?

 

[Belz...]

This thread is to present and explain LDS beliefs, teachings and doctrines, not to abuse and denigrate them. No one has, or is, being forced to participate in this LDS thread.

Sorry, you don't get to decide what people say about a specific topic.

Those whose preconceived ideas and prejudices lead them to scorn and ridicule can never receive understanding nor meaning, nor will the Spirit of the Lord abide with them nor open their mind to understanding and knowledge.

Those with superstitious or religious beliefs are deluded.

See ? I can state broad things, too.

From Jesus The Christ by James E. Talmage:
"It was not His design that the souls of mankind be lost; on the contrary it was and is His work and glory, “to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.” Nevertheless He saw the evil into which His children would assuredly fall; and with infinite love and mercy did He ordain means of averting the dire effect, provided the transgressor would elect to avail himself thereof. "

That has nothing to do with the post you were replying to.

In accordance with the plan adopted in the council of the Gods,

There are more than one, now ?

That is my opinion.

No, it's not. It's someone else's opinion that you peddle here because you have no thought of your own on this topic.

 

[Belz...]

Shall we discuss revelation?

You misspelled "hallucination".

 

[Belz...]

Homosexual activity is against Eternal Law and the reasons for our mortal existence.

Talk to chimpazees, then. They were probably doing it before we did.

And why do you always preface your posts with a lightbulb, as though there was something smart or illuminating about them ? There isn't.

We will always be the same gender

What about people who have both genders ? Have you considered them ?

 

[fromdownunder]

Kindergarden children are even being taught they can choose the gender they wish to be. Perhaps yourself and other posters here are not aware of the Radical Homosexual Agenda.

Luckily for you, this is a skepticism board, so all you have to do to convince us is back your claims up with links from reputable sources.

Are you willing to do that?

Yes I can do so,when time permits. But you must realise that this is not the topic of this thread.

Janadele, you were asked to respond to this. What do you mean, when time permits? I would have assumed that you would already have had evidence of your claim or you would not have posted it, because that would have made you a liar, and surely a child of your god would not lie.

Please post the link or evidence you surely had before this statement (since as a child of God, you would not lie) that "Kindergarden children are even being taught they can choose the gender they wish to be".

Of course you wont, because you can't. I am not sure if I can call you a liar on these Boards, so I will not risk it. I just need you to provide evidence that "Kindergarden children are even being taught they can choose the gender they wish to be".

I will apologise if you do. On the other hand, I expect you, as a child of God to withdraw your statement if you cannot provide evidence and apologise to the Board members here for lying.

The fact is, you will do neither. You will just ignore this and float along in your dream world.

And I will add that you named the topic of this thread. It is "LDS", which makes it pretty general about any beliefs anybody for or against the "LDS" belief system wishes to bring up. So, as an "LDS" member if you talk about anything relating to your LSD beliefs, it is on topic, and open for discussion.

Perhaps you should consult your masters about starting threads with more intelligent headers.

Norm

 

[Janadele]

Norm...The statements you refer to were made from memory. I do not memorise links. I also have other more important and more pleasant matters to attend to. This topic is unpleasant and upsetting, but I shall grit my teeth and look up the articles when I have time and when and if it suits me to do so... I am not obligated to dance to anyones tune on this forum.

 

[Janadele]

... And I will add that you named the topic of this thread.

Norm

... this thread has evolved from another thread in which off topic questions re LDS where being asked.

 

[Pixel42]

Please post the link or evidence you surely had before this statement (since as a child of God, you would not lie) that "Kindergarden children are even being taught they can choose the gender they wish to be".

My guess is that Janadele has seen a news report like this one:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/05/25/gender-diversity-lesson-california-school-riles-critics/

Transgender Clownfish? Gender Diversity Lesson at California School Riles Critics

A gender diversity lesson at a California elementary school that featured single-sex geckos and transgender clownfish has angered conservative critics, who question its appropriateness for in-class instruction.

Students in all grades at Oakland's Redwood Heights Elementary School got an introductory lesson on the topic on Monday. Fox News was allowed to sit in on the lessons, which included teachings to kindergartners and fourth-graders.

The lessons were presented by an outside anti-bullying educational group called Gender Spectrum, paid for with a $1,500 grant from the California Teachers Union.

Joel Baum, director of education and training for Gender Spectrum, taught the classes. In the kindergarten class he asked the 5- and 6-year-olds to identify if a toy was a "girl toy" or a "boy toy" or both. He also asked which students liked the color pink, prompting many to raise their hands, to which he responded that that boys can like pink, too.

In the fourth-grade class, Baum focused on specific animal species, like sea horses, where the males can have or take care of the children. He suggested that even if someone was born with male “private parts” but identified more with being a girl, that was something to be “accepted” and “respected.”

Students in the class were given cards, which included information on all-girl geckos and transgender clownfish, to illustrate the variations in nature that occur in humans, too.

“Gender identity is one’s own sense of themselves. Do they know themselves to be a girl? Do they know themselves to be a boy? Do they know themselves to be a combination?” Baum said. "Gender identity is a spectrum where people can be girls, feel like girls, they feel like boys, they feel like both, or they can feel like neither.”

Oakland Unified School District spokesman Troy Flint told FoxNews.com that the two-day lesson plan for all 350 students at the school was intended to emphasize that not all children will conform to gender norms.