Continuation Part 5: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

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Curatolo was in the square The cottage was not in a direct unobstructed line like Nara's. The cottage is down the hill from the piazza blocked by a building a sharp corner and a busy intersection. Curatolo couldn't possible hear what Nara hears . IC:\Users\dc\Pictures\2013-08-23\094.JPG
 
Briars said:
Curatolo was in the square The cottage was not in a direct unobstructed line like Nara's. The cottage is down the hill from the piazza blocked by a building a sharp corner and a busy intersection. Curatolo couldn't possible hear what Nara hears . IC:\Users\dc\Pictures\2013-08-23\094.JPG
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So what? Please explain what Nara's alleged scream and all prove. She doesn't come forward and call the police. She doesn't know what time it was. She doesn't see anything. She gets the day wrong as she says she heard about the murder the next morning.
 
Grinder said:
Rudy heard a scream at 9:15. Monacchia months later said that she heard a couple arguing in Italian before the alleged scream. Who do you think was arguing in Italian? How did she come forward?

Except for Rudi none of them knows what time the even allege. According to Curatolo there were disco buses and people walking around with costumes but none of them heard this scream.

There was a car full of people and a tow truck parked right out front and they didn't hear anything.

The cottage is not the stage of a theater. At best the cottage would be the cheap seats.

It certainly is possible that a scream might not be heard by Curatolo but it isn't credible that only these two women heard it and that no one reported it.

Even if they did hear the last noise from Meredith, what does that prove about Amanda and Raf? Nothing. They don't even have the time.

Now the woman that came forward in a timely fashion and said she and her date were almost run into by a black man about 10 - 10:15 now that has some weight. She being honest couldn't swear it was Rudy but the other two women can't verify the time much less who made the noise.

Funny that AM, Q, N and Cura all have names we know but the woman that came forward doesn't.
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The reported time of the near collision with the black man was 10:30. How do you explain the sound of barking below in the valley heard in the upper parking lot? Can you hear other dogs barking in the street behind Nara's or in Piazza Grimana ,no! it is the open bowl shaped terrain with a direct view. 3 witnesses hear a scream or arguing. From your perspective Guede and Meredith could have been arguing. Amanda spoke Italian well enough to practice with her flatemates she and Guede could have had an exchange mio dio e morto che fai ? che facciamo, andiamo !! Via via . Bet you even understand that.
 
Grinder said:
So what? Please explain what Nara's alleged scream and all prove. She doesn't come forward and call the police. She doesn't know what time it was. She doesn't see anything. She gets the day wrong as she says she heard about the murder the next morning.
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What is important is that others heard noise or scream. How ofter do we hear stories of witnesses hearing not one scream but prolonged screaming but they don't call the night of the crime. It happens often, in Nara's case unlike a witness who could actually call and save a life by the time she heard something it was too late. So please stop with the she doesn't count because she didn't call or check the time. The noise was over quickly murder is rare and unexpected in Perugia. She probably thought the problem had resolved itself and all was probably well.
 
A while back we were discussing the treatment of non PGP over at the PG sites:

Re: Edda: I feel like her compulsive lying derives from her knowing the truth (otherwise why bother). They've always known Knox killed Meredith. However they'll keep shifting the goalposts and reframing the conditions the Italian authorities must satisfy to earn the "right" to incarcerate her. She is a terrible human being.
I just read the Daily Mail article. Oh, she (Knox) is so SICK! And so is Sollecito! Of course we know that already, but it is just so disgusting how they are talking! They have no shame! Also we know, that it cannot be for financial reasons, why AK is not going to be in court! She got a couple million dollars for her book of lies. She is just scared, because she knows she is guilty! I am just worried, that none of the two murderers will ever go back to prison. Sollecito will also not go back on his own. He lied to the BBC host, when he said he would be there!

And, if she's so annoyed at people focusing on what she wears, what's with the PR photoshoot in which (a) they make sure that the necklet given her by the Catholic chaplain in Capanne (she's an atheist) is catching the light, and (b) her aqua lace panties are carefully arranged to show over the top of her jeans, because in PR terms aqua is 'the colour wives wear to please their husbands' and therefore virtuous + sexy at once.

But 'Bill' is so drunk, dishonest and plain stupid that he's actually forgotten, or rather chosen to forget, which way round the argument was.

And Professor Halkides has lately said that, if the murderers were naked and barefoot at the time of the murder (which is not in fact known, it is only known that they were barefoot at some stage during the clean-up, so this is a 'straw man'), they could not possibly have made those crunching sounds on the driveway as they fled, thus disproving the ear-witness testimony.

As has been observed, Halkides really should take the stand as an expert witness for the defence and face cross. That would be so bloody funny.

To my point the other day, they are still blathering on about stuff that happened 4 years ago. The SC has made it clear they approve of Massei. Why don't the twits do someting marginally more relevant and debate the disparity between H-Z and the SC ruling?

They should be picking apart the SC translation, except of course, they are too stupid and backward.

I hear the sound of twanging guitars and glugging moonshine in the background, accompanied by choruses of "where are my teeth" and "why is my daughter in bed with her cousin".

Nice respectful people over there.
 
Briars said:
What is important is that others heard noise or scream. How ofter do we hear stories of witnesses hearing not one scream but prolonged screaming but they don't call the night of the crime. It happens often, in Nara's case unlike a witness who could actually call and save a life by the time she heard something it was too late. So please stop with the she doesn't count because she didn't call or check the time. The noise was over quickly murder is rare and unexpected in Perugia. She probably thought the problem had resolved itself and all was probably well.
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The appeals point out that the first time Nara gave a statement about the incident she indicated she first thought it might have been a car accident/tires screeching. On the stand she was not only sure it was a scream she was sure it came from the cottage.
 
On the issue of hearing a scream:

Can we be sure that Meredith wouldn't have screamed in a room other than her bedroom? Maybe she was in a room where it was more likely that one of the witnesses would have heard the scream? Maybe she just screamed when she saw an unknown male in the apartment or maybe Guede began to assault her outside the bedroom.
 
Grinder said:
A while back we were discussing the treatment of non PGP over at the PG sites:

Re: Edda: I feel like her compulsive lying derives from her knowing the truth (otherwise why bother). They've always known Knox killed Meredith. However they'll keep shifting the goalposts and reframing the conditions the Italian authorities must satisfy to earn the "right" to incarcerate her. She is a terrible human being.
I just read the Daily Mail article. Oh, she (Knox) is so SICK! And so is Sollecito! Of course we know that already, but it is just so disgusting how they are talking! They have no shame! Also we know, that it cannot be for financial reasons, why AK is not going to be in court! She got a couple million dollars for her book of lies. She is just scared, because she knows she is guilty! I am just worried, that none of the two murderers will ever go back to prison. Sollecito will also not go back on his own. He lied to the BBC host, when he said he would be there!

And, if she's so annoyed at people focusing on what she wears, what's with the PR photoshoot in which (a) they make sure that the necklet given her by the Catholic chaplain in Capanne (she's an atheist) is catching the light, and (b) her aqua lace panties are carefully arranged to show over the top of her jeans, because in PR terms aqua is 'the colour wives wear to please their husbands' and therefore virtuous + sexy at once.

But 'Bill' is so drunk, dishonest and plain stupid that he's actually forgotten, or rather chosen to forget, which way round the argument was.

And Professor Halkides has lately said that, if the murderers were naked and barefoot at the time of the murder (which is not in fact known, it is only known that they were barefoot at some stage during the clean-up, so this is a 'straw man'), they could not possibly have made those crunching sounds on the driveway as they fled, thus disproving the ear-witness testimony.

As has been observed, Halkides really should take the stand as an expert witness for the defence and face cross. That would be so bloody funny.

To my point the other day, they are still blathering on about stuff that happened 4 years ago. The SC has made it clear they approve of Massei. Why don't the twits do someting marginally more relevant and debate the disparity between H-Z and the SC ruling?

They should be picking apart the SC translation, except of course, they are too stupid and backward.

I hear the sound of twanging guitars and glugging moonshine in the background, accompanied by choruses of "where are my teeth" and "why is my daughter in bed with her cousin".

Nice respectful people over there.
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Sorry I'm laughing at the last quote , saying Italy is "mid evil" to loud cheers does come to mind .
 
davefoc said:
On the issue of hearing a scream:

Can we be sure that Meredith wouldn't have screamed in a room other than her bedroom? Maybe she was in a room where it was more likely that one of the witnesses would have heard the scream? Maybe she just screamed when she saw an unknown male in the apartment or maybe Guede began to assault her outside the bedroom.
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That's possible I do think Nara went to her window and heard running not long after though.
 
RoseMontague said:
The appeals point out that the first time Nara gave a statement about the incident she indicated she first thought it might have been a car accident/tires screeching. On the stand she was not only sure it was a scream she was sure it came from the cottage.
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When you hear something unexpected in the night then you naturally would continue to listen to confirm what you think you heard. Again there was more than one witness to the scream. Good thing
 
Briars said:
When you hear something unexpected in the night then you naturally would continue to listen to confirm what you think you heard. Again there was more than one witness to the scream. Good thing
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How do you know? The source of the scream was never identified. Even assuming they did hear a scream.
 
Briars said:
When you hear something unexpected in the night then you naturally would continue to listen to confirm what you think you heard. Again there was more than one witness to the scream. Good thing
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My understanding is that there was only one scream she said she heard. How would continuing to listen help her determine the first thing she heard was a scream?
 
RoseMontague said:
My understanding is that there was only one scream she said she heard. How would continuing to listen help her determine the first thing she heard was a scream?
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She continued to listen because the she was startled by the sound went to the window and heard the running footsteps. Monaccia took the time to check with her elderly parents downstairs, an extra measure due to the frightening nature of the scream.
 
Briars said:
That's possible I do think Nara went to her window and heard running not long after though.
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She claims to have heard the footsteps, one or two minutes, after the scream too. to have heard feet running on leaves and gravel, and mentioned the sound was the gravel driveway at the cottage.... come on, please...

this is where she falls apart in a bad way, imo. Surely no one believes this, that she can hear footsteps from the cottage driveway through her double-pane windows? Amanda mentioned in her book the driveway was mainly weeds and grass.

Its hard to believe, hearing people walking on gravel 70 meters away, through double pane glass. How could anyone ever sleep in a apartment so noisy? So noisy you can hear people walking in their driveway 70 meters away, really?

I guess the only way to test it out would be to have someone listen from Naras room, while someone ran up the driveway on the grassy / gravel..... with the double pane windows closed. But all these years past the courts have shown no interest in actually confirming any of this with science and audiometric testing. No one has even shown interest over years and millions spent, to spend 4 simple hours verifying if this is possible.

ToD...per Nara, its just a very weak case.
 
davefoc said:
On the issue of hearing a scream:

Can we be sure that Meredith wouldn't have screamed in a room other than her bedroom? Maybe she was in a room where it was more likely that one of the witnesses would have heard the scream? Maybe she just screamed when she saw an unknown male in the apartment or maybe Guede began to assault her outside the bedroom.
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I think it is possible she screamed in the common area. If she came home, noticed the smashed window pane, and then found Rudy in or exiting the laundry room bathroom with his pants still half down (fits with his initial statements), she might have screamed and ran to her bedroom in an attempt to lock herself in. I think it would have to have been after she had already dropped her books and gear on her bed and returned to the main area though.

That would indicate a scream very near 9 pm though, which nobody, other than Rudy, has claimed to hear. So no, the two witnesses would still not have heard her scream.

There were only two people that said they heard a scream and their stories were incompatible with each other. Also none of the numberous (a typo, but I like it) other neighbors heard anything.
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OT: Austin Peralta

RWVBWL said:
Did your biological father die of an heroin overdose?

Mine did.
Back in Dec. 2004. My Mother also shot up back in the end of the '50's, ealy 60's...
My earliest recollection of my Mom is seeing her, at age 5, in 1967, in a rehabillation halfway house...

I was shooting surfpix today at Bay Street in Santa Monica, where the old Z-Boyz used to practice sk8boardin' after the surf sucked.
Saw Stacy Peralta out in the water, a legendary Z-Boy. A bro mentioned that his kid, a musician, at age 24, had OD'd on H recently...

My biological father,
the guy who impregnated my Mom, was a liar, thief and scammer. Heroin was his she-iit. Was it yours too?
My biological dad died from it...


WHY DON'T you normal folks believe what a junkie,
who also sold drugs+who had an arrest hangin' over his head, he who had already testified in 2 previous criminal trials,
who, IIRC, told the cops that he saw nothing out of the ordinary the night before of a brutal, bloody murder,
believe what he said back then?

Yet 4 months later,
the drug selling+using junkie comes forward at the behest of a newspaper journalist and said with spot on memory that he saw THE MAIN SUSPECT+her new boyfriend hangin' around the railin' near the basketball court for hours during the night Miss Meredith Kercher was murdered.

This being the same area where Rudy Guede writes that after he left Miss Kercher to die a horrible death,
he saw dudes playing basketball. But the junkie bum sees no one playing that night, even though it's around the same time...


Did anyone playing basketball that night also see Miss Knox or Mr. Sollecito?
Or only the bum, high on heroin, who says so 4 months after that horrible murder?


Why do you pro-gulit folks believe what the heroin using bum spews forth many months later,
but not what he told the cops in the days after that horrible murder?
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Sorry to hear about what happened to your father.

I'm also gutted to hear from you what happened to Stacy Peralta's son. He was a phenomenally talented musician.

http://tvccs.blogspot.com/2012/11/piano-phenom-austin-peralta-dead-at-22.html
 
codyjuneau said:
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I think it is possible she screamed in the common area. If she came home, noticed the smashed window pane, and then found Rudy in or exiting the laundry room bathroom with his pants still half down (fits with his initial statements), she might have screamed and ran to her bedroom in an attempt to lock herself in. I think it would have to have been after she had already dropped her books and gear on her bed and returned to the main area though.

That would indicate a scream very near 9 pm though, which nobody, other than Rudy, has claimed to hear. So no, the two witnesses would still not have heard her scream.

There were only two people that said they heard a scream and their stories were incompatible with each other. Also none of the numberous (a typo, but I like it) other neighbors heard anything.
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Monaccia like Nara heard the scream. Monaccia was so concerned she opened up and leaned out her window. Both women had trouble falling back to sleep. Nara said she wondered if it were a joke or a near accident thinking to herself that it over.
 
Briars said:
Monaccia like Nara heard the scream. Monaccia was so concerned she opened up and leaned out her window. Both women had trouble falling back to sleep. Nara said she wondered if it were a joke or a near accident thinking to herself that it over.
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"The" scream? Are you saying that they id'ed it as "the" scream associated with the Kercher murder?

If so it becomes even more curious as to why not one but now two or more people failed to come forward until months later.
 
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