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RandFan said:
Unfortunately for Mormons, being that the papyrus was a sacred funeral text the papyrus was a fairly common document. There are many copies.

Here is another one.

[qimg]http://imageshack.com/scaled/800x600/19/7rx5.jpg[/qimg]

Note both the similarities and dissimilarities. Note that Hor is grasping his phallus and note that Anubis has the head of a Jackal.

And, I will make the point one more time, why on earth would Egyptians included in their sacred texts a narrative that puts the Egyptian religion in a negative light? What do you mean "idolatrous"?
It would be as if Mormons included anti-Mormon literature inside of the casket with their loved ones. It makes zero sense. Nothing about this story has the ring of truth. Had Smith truly been able to translate the papyrus then that would be something of serious importance to all people.
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This raised a red flag for Me as well; I just don't believe the Egyptians would have portrayed their religion or gods as "idolatrous"...very suspicious.
 
MIKILLINI said:
This raised a red flag for Me as well; I just don't believe the Egyptians would have portrayed their religion or gods as "idolatrous"...very suspicious.
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To be fair, it could simply have been Smith's commentary but that is a very generous interpretation since Smith makes no such claim and takes no pains to distinguish commentary from translation. And it most certainly would have been unnecessary and pejorative. Obviously the Israelite did not embrace Egyptian gods and neither do Christians and Mormons. So, even if we were to grant that it was Smiths commentary (his charachterization, it's gratuitous in this context to say the least).

Now, if these were Hebrew or Canaanite writings and they referred to "idolatrous gods" that would be a different thing.
 
MarkCorrigan said:
Hey Skyrider, I am wondering as well, do you believe in a literal Adam and Eve or no?
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MarkCorrigan said:
Skyrider44 or Janadele, any response at all?
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Of course I believe in "a literal Adam and Eve" :-) Plus, I recall I have addressed this subject previously in this thread.
James E. Talmage in his book Jesus The Christ admirably presents the facts regarding Adam and Eve.
http://www.lds.org/media-library/audio-interim/jesus-the-christ?lang=eng

http://www.lds.org/manual/jesus-the-christ/chapter-3?lang=eng
“Our first parents were pure and noble, and when we pass behind the veil we shall perhaps learn something of their high estate, more than we know now. But be it known that they were pure; they were noble. It is true that they disobeyed the law of God, in eating things they were told not to eat; but who amongst you can rise up and condemn?”

“‘Mormonism’ accepts the doctrine of the fall, and the account of the transgression in Eden, as set forth in Genesis; but it affirms that none but Adam is or shall be answerable for Adam’s disobedience; that mankind in general are absolutely absolved from responsibility for that ‘original sin,’ and that each shall account for his own transgressions alone; that the fall was foreknown of God, that it was turned to good effect by which the necessary condition of mortality should be inaugurated; and that a Redeemer was provided before the world was; that general salvation, in the sense of redemption from the effects of the fall, comes to all without their seeking it; but that individual salvation or rescue from the effects of personal sins is to be acquired by each for himself by faith and good works through the redemption wrought by Jesus Christ.”—From Story and Philosophy of ‘Mormonism,’p. 111... by James E. Talmage.

By presenting the above as an answer, it can and should naturally be assumed that these are my beliefs. After all, these are the official teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, which as a member I endorse. I also personally follow and admire the writings of James E. Talmage... he is one of my favourite writers.
 
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Further to the above, from The Pearl of Great Price, the following outlines the LDS belief ( and consequently also my belief) regarding Adam and Eve:
21 And I, the Lord God, caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam; and he slept, and I took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh in the stead thereof;

22 And the rib which I, the Lord God, had taken from man, made I a woman, and brought her unto the man.

23 And Adam said: This I know now is bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of man.
http://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/moses/3?lang=eng
 
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Janadele said:
Of course :-) Plus, I recall I have addressed this subject previously in this thread.
James E. Talmage in his book Jesus The Christ admirably presents the facts regarding Adam and Eve.
http://www.lds.org/media-library/audio-interim/jesus-the-christ?lang=eng

http://www.lds.org/manual/jesus-the-christ/chapter-3?lang=eng
“Our first parents were pure and noble, and when we pass behind the veil we shall perhaps learn something of their high estate, more than we know now. But be it known that they were pure; they were noble. It is true that they disobeyed the law of God, in eating things they were told not to eat; but who amongst you can rise up and condemn?”

“‘Mormonism’ accepts the doctrine of the fall, and the account of the transgression in Eden, as set forth in Genesis; but it affirms that none but Adam is or shall be answerable for Adam’s disobedience; that mankind in general are absolutely absolved from responsibility for that ‘original sin,’ and that each shall account for his own transgressions alone; that the fall was foreknown of God, that it was turned to good effect by which the necessary condition of mortality should be inaugurated; and that a Redeemer was provided before the world was; that general salvation, in the sense of redemption from the effects of the fall, comes to all without their seeking it; but that individual salvation or rescue from the effects of personal sins is to be acquired by each for himself by faith and good works through the redemption wrought by Jesus Christ.”—From Story and Philosophy of ‘Mormonism,’p. 111... by James E. Talmage.
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Thank you for copypasting what James E. Talmage believed about "Adam and Eve"...his views on evolution are also illustrative.

On the other hand, I wonder if you realize that you have not actually answered the question about what you beleive.

If you would not mind, I, for one, would appreciate it if you would explain whether you believe that "Adam" and "Eve" were actual people, and, if you would not mind, if you would explain when you believe they existed. If you were of a mind, you might also explain when you believe the noachian flood happened.

Thanks!

ETA: Janadele, when I quoted your post, and asked my question, iyour post still said, simply, "Of course".
You later edited it to read, "Of course I believe in "a literal Adam and Eve", as it reads now.

I appreciate you actually addressing one of my questions, and I apologize that it seemed as if I had ignored what your post became.

Would you mind, now, addressing the question of when you believe Adam and Eve lived?

Thanks!
 
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Hi Janadele -

I understand and appreciate you believe you are included in Gods plan as a chosen one. You believe you are privileged to see and understand things that other people are not.

May I ask what you believe to be your day to day function is, as a part of this plan?

Thank you.
 
deaman said:
Hi Janadele -

I understand and appreciate you believe you are included in Gods plan as a chosen one. You believe you are privileged to see and understand things that other people are not.

May I ask what you believe to be your day to day function is, as a part of this plan?

Thank you.
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To live each moment left of this mortal trial in such a way as to enable mine and my families return to the presence of Our Heavenly Father ( and Mother) and to be empowered to keep progressing throughout the eternities.
 
Janadele said:
Of course I believe in "a literal Adam and Eve" :-)
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Odd that a church with a direct line to god can't get this straight.

Encyclopedia of Mormonism said:
As far as Adam and Eve go, Mormons certainly believe that parts of the Bible are symbolic. Some probably believe that the story of Adam and Eve is symbolic, and some don't. As the Encyclopedia of Mormonism notes, "The scriptures tell why man was created, but they do not tell how." (Vol.2, EVOLUTION article.)
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  • Evolution is a fact.
  • Adam and Eve, Genesis, talking snake, the fall, these are mythology and controverted by all available evidence.
 
Janadele said:
To live each moment left of this mortal trial in such a way as to enable mine and my families return to the presence of Our Heavenly Father ( and Mother) and to be empowered to keep progressing throughout the eternities.
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Ok, I love you, bye, bye.
 
Olowkow said:
Thanks, that one works for me.
Janadele, I'm very curious to know what this article means to you, in your words. It contains much that is not familiar or comprehensible to the non-Mormon.
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The said article and the writings of W. Cleon Skousen, and James E Talmage mean a great deal and are of great interest to me.

The world has little knowledge nor understanding of the significance of racial origins, both from our pre mortal existance and of our genealogies in mortality. Nor of the pivotal role the return of the lost ten tribes of Israel is destined to play in these last days of our Earth's travail. These are momentuous and exciting times as we witness our Earth nearing the end of her mortal probation... and humanity along with her.

Understanding the guiding force of Our Heavenly Father in all things from the beginning can be shown through the history and destiny of my ancestors... Anglo Saxon Norsemen / Ephraim, and is enthralling to me.
 
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Janadele said:
The world has little knowledge nor understanding of the significance of racial origins, both from our pre mortal existance and of our genealogies in mortality. Nor of the pivotal role the return of the lost ten tribes of Israel is destined to play in these last days of our Earth's travail.
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Mormons have little knowledge nor understanding of these things because they derive their beliefs about them from sources which are at best unsupported and at worst obviously fraudulent.
 
Wise words from a living Prophet, Seer and Revelator, LDS Apostle Dallin H. Oaks:
"Those who govern their thoughts and actions solely by the principles of liberalism or conservatism or intellectualism cannot be expected to agree with all of the teachings of the gospel of Jesus Christ. As for me, I find some wisdom in liberalism, some wisdom in conservatism, and much truth in intellectualism—but I find no salvation in any of them."
 
Janadele said:
Wise words from a living Prophet, Seer and Revelator, LDS Apostle Dallin H. Oaks:
"Those who govern their thoughts and actions solely by the principles of liberalism or conservatism or intellectualism cannot be expected to agree with all of the teachings of the gospel of Jesus Christ. As for me, I find some wisdom in liberalism, some wisdom in conservatism, and much truth in intellectualism—but I find no salvation in any of them."
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Salvation from what? And why would I need salvation?
 
Those who govern their thoughts and actions solely by the words of a fraudster will find little wisdom and no salvation.
 
Janadele said:
It is a long story which requires the recipient to attempt to understand.
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I love long stories, if the subject manages to catch and hold my interest. Thus far you have not convinced me that it's actually worthwhile to spend time and energy on this subject (salvation).
 
You can be sure that the "recipients" on this thread will do their best to understand. Most of them are actually pretty good at understanding what people say. They will, however, require some evidence that what you are telling them is true. Unsupported assertions, let alone assertions which have been proven false, will not convince them.
 
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