JFK's assassination: your thoughts

[CORed]

I voted probably Oswald acting alone. I actually don't think there's much doubt at all that Oswald was the sole shooter of Kennedy. There is a little bit of doubt in my mind as to whether he was acting alone or was part of a conspiracy, due primarily to Ruby's subsequent assassination of Oswald. OTOH, there is no real evidence supporting the notion that Oswald was part of a conspiracy, and if we assume that Ruby was part of such a conspiracy, it raises the question, if they (whoever they might have been) trusted Ruby not to talk but not Oswald, why not simply have Ruby kill Kennedy?

 

[JayUtah]

There is a little bit of doubt in my mind as to whether he was acting alone or was part of a conspiracy, due primarily to Ruby's subsequent assassination of Oswald.

And that's not an unreasonable suspicion.

But we learn from the history of assassinations and attempts on U.S. Presidents that the assassins invariably become ripe targets for violence themselves. It seems there is a great deal of interest in avenging a President, so Oswald simply followed an established pattern of being a marked man.

 

[jeremyp]

I put "probably Oswald" because putting "other" and saying in the text "definitely Oswald" might give a false impression to anybody casually glancing at the poll.

The JFK assassination was the one conspiracy theory that I thought might have something in it. However, some years ago, the BBC made a programme (probably it was in 2003, for obvious reasons) in which they used the Zapruder film to build a computer model of the assassination attempt. Amongst other things they demonstrated that, once you correctly positioned the occupants of the car (Connally was sitting on a jump seat and was not directly in front of or at the same height as JFK), the so called "magic bullet" turned out not to be so magic after all. They also showed that the interval between the shots was a lot longer than Oliver Stone made out in JFK and basically debunked the whole thing utterly comprehensively.

 

[Bell]

I put "probably Oswald" because putting "other" and saying in the text "definitely Oswald" might give a false impression to anybody casually glancing at the poll.

The JFK assassination was the one conspiracy theory that I thought might have something in it. However, some years ago, the BBC made a programme (probably it was in 2003, for obvious reasons) in which they used the Zapruder film to build a computer model of the assassination attempt. Amongst other things they demonstrated that, once you correctly positioned the occupants of the car (Connally was sitting on a jump seat and was not directly in front of or at the same height as JFK), the so called "magic bullet" turned out not to be so magic after all. They also showed that the interval between the shots was a lot longer than Oliver Stone made out in JFK and basically debunked the whole thing utterly comprehensively.

That was the *exacts* same documentary and scene that made me go over to the dark side

 

[Retrograde]

I'm curious. Are people still discussing the 'assassination' of Napoleon's son, the Prince Imperial? Is there anyone out there still interested in Kasper Hauser? Closer to home, does anyone care about McKinley or Garfield or William Henry Harrison (One of these names is not like the others...).

My intro to conspiracy theories came in the mid 1960s when I read a book about the conspiracy that assassinated Abraham Lincoln. Now, it really was a conspiracy in that it involved several people working together to kill a number of officials, but there are also conspiracy freaks who claim that Sec. of War Edward Stanton for various nefarious reasons instigated the conspiracy in conjunction with the remnants of the Confederacy and let Booth escape, or that it was a Catholic plot to do something or other. Garfield and McKinley were shot in public by arguably lone nuts, so not much room for conspiracies there. WH Harrison is a new one for me - and a very, very subtle and cunning plan it was if true.

I want to know more about Napoleon's son, though.

That's what surprised me too when I wandered into Dealey Plaza: everything is much closer together than the impression you get from film and photography.

Yeah, I always thought Dealey Plaza was a huge place - Texas-sized, to say the least - so I was disappointed to see how small and close-in it was. Not a difficult shot in the least, especially when you consider that only the last of three shots was fatal.

I've been to all four of the US presidential assassination sites - ask me anything!

 

[CORed]

That's what surprised me too when I wandered into Dealey Plaza: everything is much closer together than the impression you get from film and photography. The notion that it would have been too difficult a shot for Oswald seems very ludicrous now. The other thing I noticed while standing at the pergola and on the Grassy Knoll is how difficult a shot it would have been from either of those locations. Because of trees, street signs, and other obstacles, the window of opportunity was at best a couple seconds long. Plus Kennedy's car was moving across the line of fire from those positions, not away from it -- that's a much harder shot.

I've not been there myself, but IIRC, the shots were fired from less than 100 yards, at a target moving slowly on a vector mostly away from the shooter. I've said it before, but thousands of deer hunters make more difficult shots with similar weapons to Oswald's every hunting season.

 

[Wolrab]

I have a confession to make. I was born on November 2, 1963. I was twenty days old when JFK was killed. I don't have an alibi for that day. I also have no recollection of the time before or after the assassination... just sayin'...

 

[LSSBB]

I have a confession to make. I was born on November 2, 1963. I was twenty days old when JFK was killed. I don't have an alibi for that day. I also have no recollection of the time before or after the assassination... just sayin'...

And just look at who shot Mr. Burns!

 

[BStrong]

I've not been there myself, but IIRC, the shots were fired from less than 100 yards, at a target moving slowly on a vector mostly away from the shooter. I've said it before, but thousands of deer hunters make more difficult shots with similar weapons to Oswald's every hunting season.

In all honesty, until I learned that LHO had hunted as a kid, I was a little skeptical about his shooting.

You can spend your whole life on a military KD (Known Distance) range and burn powder, and the first time something breathing is in your sights forget everything you learned about shooting.

"Buck Fever" is a real condition, and I can't begin to imagine what the condition would be like if the POTUS was the first real world target someone zeroed.

I think LHO's earlier hunting experience and mental pathology carried him through - I don't believe LHO felt much empathy with his fellow humans.

 

[Monza]

Amongst other things they demonstrated that, once you correctly positioned the occupants of the car (Connally was sitting on a jump seat and was not directly in front of or at the same height as JFK), the so called "magic bullet" turned out not to be so magic after all. They also showed that the interval between the shots was a lot longer than Oliver Stone made out in JFK and basically debunked the whole thing utterly comprehensively.

In the movie JFK they say that the three shots can't be fired in whatever-point-whatever seconds... and then promptly demonstrate that you can. It's a great little goof of the actions not matching the scripted words. Another strike out for the CT'ers.

 

[CORed]

And that's not an unreasonable suspicion.

But we learn from the history of assassinations and attempts on U.S. Presidents that the assassins invariably become ripe targets for violence themselves. It seems there is a great deal of interest in avenging a President, so Oswald simply followed an established pattern of being a marked man.

The other thing I have noticed about people who assassinated or attempted to assassinate a president is that they are all nuttier than a fruitcake (not too surprising). Oswald certainly seems to fit that mold.

 

[NightStar76]

My intro to conspiracy theories came in the mid 1960s when I read a book about the conspiracy that assassinated Abraham Lincoln. Now, it really was a conspiracy in that it involved several people working together to kill a number of officials, but there are also conspiracy freaks who claim that Sec. of War Edward Stanton for various nefarious reasons instigated the conspiracy in conjunction with the remnants of the Confederacy and let Booth escape, or that it was a Catholic plot to do something or other. Garfield and McKinley were shot in public by arguably lone nuts, so not much room for conspiracies there. WH Harrison is a new one for me - and a very, very subtle and cunning plan it was if true.

I want to know more about Napoleon's son, though.

I don't remember if anything ever came up with Harrison, but a few years back I heard someone giving a talk about a book they were writing saying that Harrison's death was a put-up job, that poor medical care was deliberately given to him, and so on. Tyler may have stood to benefit, I suppose. I've not really heard of the project since, so it may have come to nothing after he did some more research. Can't even remember his name. A look around the web may turn it up.


As for Napoleon II? Well, he may very well have been murdered. He was raised by his mother's family, all of whom had means, some of whom may have had motive and, and at least a few would have had the capability to arrange his death. There was a brief flurry of thought that he was either illegitimate or assassinated when he died, but it quickly ended. I think the official diagnosis was tuberculosis.

 

[Corsair 115]

Either way, it is bad for Zathras.

But at least there is symmetry.

 

[Rolfe]

Not only that, he did a thoroughly effective job of convincing me that Oswald could have been the only shooter! Although that was not quite his intent...

Me too. I didn't know much about the specifics other than the BBC programme showing that bullets travel in more or les straight lines, but a quick perusal of that thread caused me to read some more about it, and honestly, what's all the fuss about?

However, some years ago, the BBC made a programme (probably it was in 2003, for obvious reasons) in which they used the Zapruder film to build a computer model of the assassination attempt. Amongst other things they demonstrated that, once you correctly positioned the occupants of the car (Connally was sitting on a jump seat and was not directly in front of or at the same height as JFK), the so called "magic bullet" turned out not to be so magic after all. They also showed that the interval between the shots was a lot longer than Oliver Stone made out in JFK and basically debunked the whole thing utterly comprehensively.

I saw the programme cold, that is not knowing there was any dispute about the path of the bullet, so I wasn't quite sure why they were labouring the point so much. But it was a neat job, and very clear. Is it available online?

Rolfe.

 

[Rolfe]

I caught the start of a radio programme this morning where a group of people who were there at the time were being interviewed (now) about the incident. Mrs. Connally and the bodyguard were the two I listened to. Their recollections were absolutely consistent with the three shots from the direction of the book warehouse doing exactly what they were said to have done.

I imagine the CTers would dismiss this as 50-year-old memories having been re-imagined to fit in with the preferred theory though.

Rolfe.

 

[vtbub]

Not only that, he did a thoroughly effective job of convincing me that Oswald could have been the only shooter! Although that was not quite his intent...

This +1000!

While I didn't have much doubt before, that first thread sealed the deal. Any organization that would use LHO as part of a conspiracy would have been a damn fool.

 

[Brown]

Link to vtbub's thread in the History forum: Defending Oswald.

 

[Tomtomkent]

I get the feeling that after the two JFK threads Oswald would have doubts about which ever fantasies he had of being a spy...

 

[Jetblast]

I voted CIA because it comes closest to defining the array of right-wing forces involved in the conspiracy. Allen Dulles was key.

Read 'JFK And The Unspeakable' and DiEugenio's 'Destiny Betrayed'.

 

[Metullus]

Oswald was a patsy. It is incomprehensible that anyone would have their photograph taken holding a newspaper and a rifle!