What if we had $50 million for a new investigation?

[Travis]

Suppose I was an eccentric billionaire. Perhaps for my own amusement I decide to set aside fifty million dollars for the all brand new Truther led investigation into the September 11th attacks that will obviate the hundreds of prior investigations that they don't like.

So the money is there waiting to be spent. How should I spend it?

Who can I hire and not have the Truthers claim they are poisoning the investigation from within?

What evidence can I use that won't be claimed to be faked or tainted later on?

What witnesses can be sourced that won't be claimed to be misled or plants later on?

I am all for spending all that money on this I just want to be sure it will be done to the satisfaction of the Truth Movement so that there will be no need to discredit it later. So how do I do it?

 

[plague311]

Suppose I was an eccentric billionaire. Perhaps for my own amusement I decide to set aside fifty million dollars for the all brand new Truther led investigation into the September 11th attacks that will obviate the hundreds of prior investigations that they don't like.

So the money is there waiting to be spent. How should I spend it?

Who can I hire and not have the Truthers claim they are poisoning the investigation from within?

What evidence can I use that won't be claimed to be faked or tainted later on?

What witnesses can be sourced that won't be claimed to be misled or plants later on?

I am all for spending all that money on this I just want to be sure it will be done to the satisfaction of the Truth Movement so that there will be no need to discredit it later. So how do I do it?

You can change that number to 50 billion, but truthers won't believe anything other than CD. There is no other option, no matter what.

If you were an eccentric billionaire, I'd tell you to skip the process and throw a big ass party.

 

[ozeco41]

So how do I do it?

You cannot do it

First problem: Step one must be "Define the Objective"

The only objective that truthers may possibly accept is "come up with the answers that we want"

So you immediately confront the first barrier - two actually which are:
1) There is no known mechanism whereby truthers will accept any of the forms of due process that our society relies on; AND
2) Truthers are not capable of agreeing among themselves so even if "1)" was possible for some it would not be acceptable to all or even a majority.

So "they" could not agree on what answers they wanted even if the investigation was directed/constrained to come up with those pre-determined answers.

Second Problem: There is no capable "Truther Leader"

So how can it be truther led? The very basics of leadership on a task include:
a) Defining the Objective of the task;
b) Planning the task processes to achieve the objective;
c) Selecting, recruiting workers, partitioning sub tasks, guiding, motivating helpers to achieve their parts of the task whilst ensuring that all the parts fit into a coherent whole;
(Remember that no truther has ever put together a coherent overall hypothesis for any of the key technical issues of 9/11 let alone the more complicated politico-socio issues.)

I'll stop there. Name a truther who can perform one of those task. Even if you can it is a long way from being able to staff the overall investigation process.

your final paragraph shows the fatal premise:

...I am all for spending all that money on this I just want to be sure it will be done to the satisfaction of the Truth Movement so that there will be no need to discredit it later.

How could such a process ever have "credit" so that it could be "discredited later". What part of society is expected to find it creditable but could potentially "discredit it later"?

It doesn't even work is you postulate a society of 100% truthers with none of us rational people who are (i)can think, (ii) are allowed to think AND (iii) are willing to do so?

How do you construct a society made up of people who cannot think or which has rules which bar rational thinking?

How do you change the ethos of the "truth movement" so that it can accept something at one stage and not seek to discredit it later. If you can re-educate truthers so that they behave consistently and rationally by definition they would no longer be truthers.

 

[chrismohr]

I hate to say this, but I can't imagine an investigation that would satisfy them unless it proved CD.

For example: they want full subpoena powers, so it has to be under the umbrella of some government agency.
All government agencies are suspect, therefore no investigation will be satisfactory.

I did a whole YouTube video on this and I interviewed several 9/11 Truth activists asking them what would satisfy them. None said that any investigation disproving CD would be satisfactory because they know it was CD. None of the ones I talked to wanted any kind of "truth and reconciliation" panel a la South Africa, they wanted grand juries, trials, and the full force of the law (including generous numbers of convictions for treason).

My attempts to work with Kevin Ryan on an independent WTC dust study failed utterly and earned me public ad hominem attacks against me and the guy I hired to do the dust study.

My more recent attempts to convince Mark Basile and all the Thermite paper signatories to work with me to create a protocol together that we could all agree on for a new WTC dust study was met with a wall of silence.

I'm feeling pretty discouraged re my years-long efforts to work together on such things.

 

[The Platypus]

I hate to say this, but I can't imagine an investigation that would satisfy them unless it proved CD.

Even an investigation that proved CD wouldn't be enough, because other truther cults whose dogma is other than CD, wouldn't accept it.

There are over 100 sects of the 9/11 conspiracy cult.

 

[DGM]

I am all for spending all that money on this I just want to be sure it will be done to the satisfaction of the Truth Movement so that there will be no need to discredit it later. So how do I do it?

You first need to give Richard Gage half and make sure you hire only people that he will endorse. After that make sure it proves controlled demolition.

Anything short of that would be rigged. They already have the results of an independent investigation.

 

[beachnut]

911 truth followers, believers in the inside job nonsense can't think for themselves, and can't comprehend the many studies on 911. Another study would only expose how much ignorance 911 truth followers have.

 

[ozeco41]

I hate to say this, but I can't imagine an investigation that would satisfy them unless it proved CD....

Agreed - but there are other issues in the politico-social arena and there may be "truthers" who are only interested in MIHOP-LIHOP-LIHOOI

...For example: they want full subpoena powers, so it has to be under the umbrella of some government agency.
All government agencies are suspect, therefore no investigation will be satisfactory...

I've never seen any truther say why "subpoena powers" matters....it has simply become one of their parroting phrases without meaning.

...I did a whole YouTube video on this and I interviewed several 9/11 Truth activists asking them what would satisfy them. None said that any investigation disproving CD would be satisfactory because they know it was CD. None of the ones I talked to wanted any kind of "truth and reconciliation" panel a la South Africa, they wanted grand juries, trials, and the full force of the law (including generous numbers of convictions for treason).

My attempts to work with Kevin Ryan on an independent WTC dust study failed utterly and earned me public ad hominem attacks against me and the guy I hired to do the dust study.

My more recent attempts to convince Mark Basile and all the Thermite paper signatories to work with me to create a protocol together that we could all agree on for a new WTC dust study was met with a wall of silence.

The two bottom lines are:
a) They are untruthful; AND
b) They cannot think coherently.

blunt and cruel but...

Note I said "untruthful" - not "liars". The distinction not all that relevant given that most of them suffer from some level of delusion and truthful adherence to delusion is not "lying" for most purposes. R Gage and T Sz possibly examples who may genuinely believe their delusions. So they may well not be liars. But there can be no doubt that much of what they claim is untruthful. (Note the careful wording avoiding PA )

Truthers (and trolls) in general repeatedly demonstrate that they cannot think coherently. The multiplicity of evidence showing limited thinking skills - with the key aspect probably the tendency to rely on "divergent" rather than "convergent" thinking. (Stated so bluntly they look like two opposing schools of thinking - not so but leave the topic for another time. One is "cannot think" and "diverge" is the defining characteristic. The other is "can think" and "converge" is the necessary characteristic of any reasoning from which valid conclusions are to be reached.)

And despite the number of references to that problem I have never seen any interest in discussing it on this or other forums. We don't want to "think about thinking"

...I'm feeling pretty discouraged re my years-long efforts to work together on such things.

I comprehend despite my long held concern that your willingness to engage truthers on their own ground would lead nowhere.

 

[ozeco41]

Even an investigation that proved CD wouldn't be enough, because other truther cults whose dogma is other than CD, wouldn't accept it.

There are over 100 sects of the 9/11 conspiracy cult.

Succinctly stated.

 

[ozeco41]

911 truth followers, believers in the inside job nonsense can't think for themselves, and can't comprehend the many studies on 911...

Well said. I made the same point but a bit more complicated.

"Cannot think" is the botom line. and it is like "blind spots". Just as by definition you cannot see your own blind spots - those with limited thinking skills cannot think outside their limitations.

So, also by definition, I don't have any "blind spots' - because I cannot see them...

...I'd better stop before I dig in too deep - some troll is likely to quote mine my bits of humour.

... Another study would only expose how much ignorance 911 truth followers have.

That's why Gage doesn't want another investigation whilst Basile and Ryan run away when Chris Mohr offers to collaborate. Obviously they have at least a gut feeing that they will lose if ever due process is followed.

 

[beachnut]

http://conleys.com.au/smilies/clap.gif
Well said. I made the same point but a bit more complicated.

"Cannot think" is the botom line. and it is like "blind spots". Just as by definition you cannot see your own blind spots - those with limited thinking skills cannot think outside their limitations.

So, also by definition, I don't have any "blind spots' - because I cannot see them...

...I'd better stop before I dig in too deep - some troll is likely to quote mine my bits of humour.





That s why Gage doesn't want another investigation, Basile and Ryan run away when Chris Mohr offers to collaborate. Obviously they have at least a gut feeing that they will lose if ever due process is followed.

Most 911 truth followers are transients when they take the time to think for themselves. The old studies will cure most 911 truth followers, as they begin to think for themselves.

911 truth claims are made up fantasy, like the CIA guided the hijacker pilots. Statements made up by failed logic, and paranoid minds. More studies fuel the paranoia.

 

[jaydeehess]

Suppose I was an eccentric billionaire. Perhaps for my own amusement I decide to set aside fifty million dollars for the all brand new Truther led investigation into the September 11th attacks that will obviate the hundreds of prior investigations that they don't like.

So the money is there waiting to be spent. How should I spend it?

Who can I hire and not have the Truthers claim they are poisoning the investigation from within?

What evidence can I use that won't be claimed to be faked or tainted later on?

What witnesses can be sourced that won't be claimed to be misled or plants later on?

I am all for spending all that money on this I just want to be sure it will be done to the satisfaction of the Truth Movement so that there will be no need to discredit it later. So how do I do it?

Are you hoping to get a better response to this question than you got to the 'assume molten steel existed' thread?

 

[JSanderO]

You'd have to spend money searching for explosive residue or evidence of CD... And of course prove that fires and a collection of severed columns could not possible fail and cause the top drop. Tony would lead that investigation. I suppose they will want to interview under oath Cheney and Rummy and everyone of PNAC members... all the Neocons etc... and of course the CIA, FEMA and FBI ..then Silverstein, Guiliani and all the MIC corp execs in the twin towers.

I don't think anything would prove CD and so one needs to ask what is this all about in the end? Does the USG and corps lie? You betcha. So what else is new?

 

[Bell]

I'd say **** the truthers and donate the money to the Afghan and Iraqi people, for what it's worth. Maybe they can be helped by this. Truthers can't be helped.

 

[Mudcat]

Sorry Travis, but you could be that eccentric billionaire and blow your entire fortune on the proposed independent investigation and it would still be a fool's errand so long as the Truthers don't agree on a theory. And even if they did they would still side against you when, not if, such an investigation fails to produce a result other than 'the government had involvement in the comission of this crime'.

 

[beachnut]

You'd have to spend money searching for explosive residue or evidence of CD... And of course prove that fires and a collection of severed columns could not possible fail and cause the top drop. Tony would lead that investigation. I suppose they will want to interview under oath Cheney and Rummy and everyone of PNAC members... all the Neocons etc... and of course the CIA, FEMA and FBI ..then Silverstein, Guiliani and all the MIC corp execs in the twin towers.

I don't think anything would prove CD and so one needs to ask what is this all about in the end? Does the USG and corps lie? You betcha. So what else is new?

The FAA lies? Do you fly? NTSB lies? Military, all the military lies? The USAF lies? If you got some evidence you have a Pulitzer if you can find a newspaper to team with. Good luck.
So a new study would be a lie? yes, that would be 911 truth.

We have all learned that data... RADES, black boxes, even calls from planes and so forth can be faked. We are left not with evidence, but with planted evidence to incriminate.
9/11 was a false flag and has the finger prints of intel services all over it. Who they were working for is yet to be determined.

What made you drop the nonsense; which study?

PNAC? that was funny, to see 911 truth blame PNAC, shows 911 truth can't connect the dots.

Cutter or shaped charges may have been used at multiple locations in the core

What study made you aware you were spreading woo?

Another study would fail to change 911 truth. 911 truth failed to read before they spread woo the first time. 911 truth would want silly stuff investigated, as you pointed out.

A new study will not help 911 truth followers. The stuff that made you drop the inside job nonsense is what cures 911 truth followers, and it start with thinking for yourself, and learning what evidence is.

 

[marplots]

Rebuild a tower. Fill it with stuff. Crash a plane into it. Take pictures and video. See what happens.

Need more than $50 million, but you can make that up in contributions and selling the movie rights. I suggest Kickstarter.

 

[Myriad]

Give the whole $50 mil to Gage/ae911t. Lump sum, no legal strings attached. The only condition is, the grant will be publicized (including a statement that the intended purpose is for investigating 9/11) and he must publicly acknowledge receiving the money.

All subsequent communication from Truthers can thenceforth be answered with "ask Gage how the investigation is going."

 

[NoahFence]

Waste of time and money. Flush the cash down the toilet. you'll get the same results.

 

[DGM]

Give the whole $50 mil to Gage/ae911t. Lump sum, no legal strings attached. The only condition is, the grant will be publicized (including a statement that the intended purpose is for investigating 9/11) and he must publicly acknowledge receiving the money.

All subsequent communication from Truthers can thenceforth be answered with "ask Gage how the investigation is going."

Sad part is, they've been giving him money for years and don't seem to care where it goes.

Ask a "truther" if they think Gage is a worthwhile investment and watch them dance.

To be fair he is doing his job well. He's making money for the company and not doing anything to jeopardize its future.